Biggest mistake of the offseason

[XPack]

Going by the schedule, we have 2 tough games to start. I hope we don't start too many rookies without proper time to settle in.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Hayward and Cullen Jenkins. Who else was more than a JAG after he left?

That's why it seems that a lack of talent and not the coaching staff is mostly to blame for the defense struggling.

 

[Dantés]

It could also be attributed largely to not letting the better players walk.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

It could also be attributed largely to not letting the better players walk.

That hasn't helped the Packers finish within the top 10 over the last six seasons though leading me to believe the unit has been lacking talent.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It could also be attributed largely to not letting the better players walk.

Like this year?

 

[PackerDNA]

Fine points. And I'm good with those being discussed. The offseason could've for sure been better so far. But refusing to acknowledge the good things TT has done doesn't help either. (Not that I believe that's what your doing)



None of them had any extra leverage? How about the contracts they were offered and eventually signed?

This idea that all these players would resign here for less is just non sense. The closest you can say is that Lang said he'd give the Packers a chance to match. That's a far cry from saying any kind of hometown discount.

The idea that neither Hyde or Lacy were hot targets so we should've gotten them for less is non sensical also. Hot target or not they still managed to get more then they're worth

How about if you want a guy you get off your *** and sign him before anyone else can talk to him?
Lang was coming into the off season with a lot of injury concerns, and may have signed early with a good offer. Maybe he still waits to see what's out there, but we'll never know since Thompson low balled him after FA started, and to my knowledge never offered him before it started.

 

[PackerDNA]

They tried to lock up Lang early. He water to test the market.

Lacy and Hyde are the exact type of guys that you let hit the market when they're asking price is to high

According to Lang, he never heard anything from Thompson until right before the start of FA. Thompson's known offer was akin to spitting in Lang's face.

 

[XPack]

They tried to lock up Lang early. He water to test the market.

Lacy and Hyde are the exact type of guys that you let hit the market when they're asking price is to high

Value is not always market driven, but we need to factor in our own strength in our position. I'd not mind if we overpaid a bit for Hyde.

I know this won't make it sting any less, but in reality, Matthews is "only" costing the Packers $10,975,000 if he is on the 53 man roster. $4.1M is dead cap. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Mathews cut before the 53 if he is showing no signs of improvement, another player has beaten him out or he is injured. Now next year, his $11.4M Cap hit can be completely erased if he is cut prior to workout and roster bonuses.

How is this relevant? It's not like we need more cap space or that's the thing holding back our FA. There's a thread on how much unused cap space we already have and we are complaining about not making more? What for? What's the use of having $30m cap space or even more if we don't use it?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Value is not always market driven, but we need to factor in our own strength in our position. I'd not mind if we overpaid a bit for Hyde.

Hyde is a decent hybrid safety/cornerback but there was no reason for Thompson to match what the Bills offered him.

 

[brandon2348]

Value is not always market driven, but we need to factor in our own strength in our position. I'd not mind if we overpaid a bit for Hyde.



How is this relevant? It's not like we need more cap space or that's the thing holding back our FA. There's a thread on how much unused cap space we already have and we are complaining about not making more? What for? What's the use of having $30m cap space or even more if we don't use it?

I've never understood this approach either. Its like what are we holding out for? The other teams were in the running with as contenders are operating way below 5 mill in cap space. TT should of "leveled the playing field" and been more aggressive giving us the best chance to win. Let's just say he added Claiborne and Barwin to what has already been done. Now with those two guys and then by drafting another edge and corner and add that to what's in place the roster just becomes way way stronger. Now you legitimately have a something set up to withstand injury, disappointments etc. etc.

Instead mark my words we will have UDFA's playing in Decemeber.

 

[XPack]

Hyde is a decent hybrid safety/cornerback but there was no reason for Thompson to match what the Bills offered him.

Ofc not. But as I replied to RRyder, I believe that if we had made a good initial offer much before FA, we could have retained them for less than their current new contracts. I don't think any of the 3 (Hyde, Lang, Lacy) had the backing of a outstanding season and all 3 would have preferred to remain in GB. I think it's a case of too little too late, when we could have retained them for a reasonable and earlier offer.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

How is this relevant? It's not like we need more cap space or that's the thing holding back our FA. There's a thread on how much unused cap space we already have and we are complaining about not making more? What for? What's the use of having $30m cap space or even more if we don't use it?

How is anything relevant if you don't consider the Cap? I really don't understand your question as it pertains to Clay Matthews. It's pretty simple IMO. If the Packers feel that Clay Matthews can't contribute close to what he is being paid and the Packers have suitable alternatives, they cut him loose. Roll the cap and use it to either restructure or resign current or future players.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ofc not. But as I replied to RRyder, I believe that if we had made a good initial offer much before FA, we could have retained them for less than their current new contracts. I don't think any of the 3 (Hyde, Lang, Lacy) had the backing of a outstanding season and all 3 would have preferred to remain in GB. I think it's a case of too little too late, when we could have retained them for a reasonable and earlier offer.

That's pure speculation as it's entirely possible all three players would have still tested their value in free agency.

 

[XPack]

How is anything relevant if you don't consider the Cap? I really don't understand your question as it pertains to Clay Matthews. It's pretty simple IMO. If the Packers feel that Clay Matthews can't contribute close to what he is being paid and the Packers have suitable alternatives, they cut him loose. Roll the cap and use it to either restructure or resign current or future players.

I'm having trouble with the last part. We are good at cutting people loose. We just suck at "future players" part. We have enough cap space to make a few good moves...and haven't. So I don't see point in creating more and more space just for it to stay unused.

 

[XPack]

That's pure speculation as it's entirely possible all three players would have still tested their value in free agency.

Yeah, it is speculation, but not without merit. Lang said outright he preferred to stay and Lacy indicated the same.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah, it is speculation, but not without merit. Lang said outright he preferred to stay and Lacy indicated the same.

While it's possible both might have liked to stay in Green Bay I don't believe they would have taken a significant pay cut to sign with the Packers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Ofc not. But as I replied to RRyder, I believe that if we had made a good initial offer much before FA, we could have retained them for less than their current new contracts. I don't think any of the 3 (Hyde, Lang, Lacy) had the backing of a outstanding season and all 3 would have preferred to remain in GB. I think it's a case of too little too late, when we could have retained them for a reasonable and earlier offer.

If you were employed in a job that was paying you X amount of dollars and your agent started looking around and told you that you could continue to make that same amount and stay put or you could make X + 1, 2 or even 3? What would you do? I think it's too easy for fans to assume "their" players are automatically going to be loyal and not look for more money. Also assuming every Packer whose contract is coming up gets a "good initial offer" from TT is assuming a lot. Sure, it's nice to lock guys up early, but there are two sides to the bargaining table and a lot more that goes into it then TT just deciding that he will keep the guys he wants to keep at the price he wants to pay them.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm having trouble with the last part. We are good at cutting people loose. We just suck at "future players" part. We have enough cap space to make a few good moves...and haven't. So I don't see point in creating more and more space just for it to stay unused.

While I am not debating that we don't currently have a lot of cap space, but it is April. There is plenty of time and players to spend that money on, before or even once the season starts. There is speculation that AR's contract will be reworked, as well as players with expiring contracts in 2018 that TT may want to be ready to resign. This isn't a race to spend your cap, just to spend it, it's spending your cap wisely as you go.

 

[brandon2348]

If the goal was never to get aggressive in free agency then Lang should of been tied up long before getting so close to the deadline.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If the goal was never to get aggressive in free agency then Lang should of been tied up long before getting so close to the deadline.

My guess would be TT had a top dollar value for Lang, he offered it or close too and Lang decided to look elsewhere and found out that the Lions wanted to pay a lot more. Lang's agent may have inquired if the Packers would match it, they obviously didn't.

How much is "being loyal" worth to a player? I am sure it varies from player to player and situation to situation, but at the end of the day, I think fans place a higher perceived value on it more than players themselves do.

 

[Dantés]

That hasn't helped the Packers finish within the top 10 over the last six seasons though leading me to believe the unit has been lacking talent.

I think it's both. Thornton, Jones, and Worthy are notable misses. At their draft slot, they ought to be starters or major contributors right now and instead they aren't on the team. TT has to do better than that with his model of team building.

The hope would be that the young corners and Fackrell and Clark (some combination thereof) prove to be reversing that trend in 2017 rather than perpetuate it. Plus some later picks like Martinez and Ryan could prove to be helpful in that regard.

But I do think some of this is on the defensive coaching staff. Hayward would be the primary example. But to a large extent, that's just going to be an opinion because we don't see many good players walk out of Green Bay to show what they could do elsewhere. By virtue of TT's model and not spending on the open market, he always has the cap to spend on the in house guy's he wants back and very few of the good ones leave.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But to a large extent, that's just going to be an opinion because we don't see many good players walk out of Green Bay to show what they could do elsewhere. By virtue of TT's model and not spending on the open market, he always has the cap to spend on the in house guy's he wants back and very few of the good ones leave.

Unfortunately the Packers haven't had that many good players on defense over the past few seasons to begin with.

 

[Dantés]

Unfortunately the Packers haven't had that many good players on defense over the past few seasons to begin with.

Yes, that would be due to the aforementioned misses. Comes back to the hope that his more recent classes reverse course. We'll see.

 

[PackerDNA]

Hope is not a plan.

 

[Dantés]

Hope is not a plan.

It is always TT's plan that previous draft classes will develop and build the team.

We, as fans, hope that it proves effective.