All Sitton & Lang & OL threads merged

[Half Empty]

First, I didn't see anything in your previous post that referred to TT always being right. However, if it did, this is not the place to assume that people would see the sarcasm - 'in Ted we trust' is a real thing to some folks.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I would not assume this to be a last minute decision; more a measuring of pros and cons over a period of time. Once they paid Sitton the $300,000 roster bonus, there was no financial advantage to acting earlier.

I get that part and the part about the negatives pertaining to Sitton possibly piling up slowly. The part I don't get is the timing of releasing him and getting nothing in return and even worse, a division rival having the ability to freely sign him. Now maybe Sitton had some kind of no trade clause in his contract, but I doubt it. That to me, although not specifically a financial advantage of trading him earlier, is a smart business move advantage.

I will keep saying it, cap savings aside, IMO not trading Sitton well before the final 53 cut was a big mistake by the Packers. Unless there is something that we don't know, that happened very recently. Trading him gets the Packers some kind of value, controls what team gets him and still sends a signal to the rest of the team (if this was part of the reason) that nobody's job is 100% safe.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I get that part and the part about the negatives pertaining to Sitton possibly piling up slowly. The part I don't get is the timing of releasing him and getting nothing in return and even worse, a division rival having the ability to freely sign him. Now maybe Sitton had some kind of no trade clause in his contract, but I doubt it.

I will keep saying it, cap savings aside, IMO not trading Sitton well before the final 53 cut was a big mistake by the Packers. Unless there is something that we don't know, that happened very recently. Trading him gets the Packers some kind of value, controls what team gets him and still sends a signal to the rest of the team (if this was part of the reason) that nobody's job is 100% safe.

Not getting anything in trade is a serious disappointment. But how serious, really? 30 year old OGs don't draw much in trade value. We see a lot of quality vets across the league floated as trade bait with no takers or cheap compensation. Mediocre QBs seem to be the lone exception.

Further, Thompson is a conservative guy and a hedger of bets. How many check marks Taylor could put in the plus column over the course of the preseason would have been a factor. Evidently they saw enough to make the move. Frankly, I didn't see it, particularly since Taylor's work was against second and third stringers, but evidently it was enough for the brain trust. Lacy and Starks may be doing less releasing and more pass blocking this season. If so, at least there's a big add with Cook.

I would not discount that some recent off field incident might have been a final tipping of the scales, but to think it was some shot out of the blue doesn't seem realistic.

 

[El Guapo]

I don't agree sacrificing short-term success by releasing a starter shortly before opening week is a smart way to handle a Super Bowl contender.

You're right in a perfect world, but that isn't the reality of the NFL. Which leads to.....

By outward appearances this is a dumb move. I agree with Capt. However the dramatic timing of this whole thing speaks more to the issue. Even Matt Millen wouldn't have pulled such a bone headed move, unless there is more to this than meets the eye. The sheer timing of it leads me and apparently quite a few others to think there is something bad at play here of which we have not been informed.

Probably the most accurate assessment here. There is likely more to the story than we may ever hear, which is why this has become such a divisive issue.

 

[Vince Lombardi]

I get that part and the part about the negatives pertaining to Sitton possibly piling up slowly. The part I don't get is the timing of releasing him and getting nothing in return and even worse, a division rival having the ability to freely sign him. Now maybe Sitton had some kind of no trade clause in his contract, but I doubt it. That to me, although not specifically a financial advantage of trading him earlier, is a smart business move advantage.

I will keep saying it, cap savings aside, IMO not trading Sitton well before the final 53 cut was a big mistake by the Packers. Unless there is something that we don't know, that happened very recently. Trading him gets the Packers some kind of value, controls what team gets him and still sends a signal to the rest of the team (if this was part of the reason) that nobody's job is 100% safe.

They could have traded him a week or 2 into the season also. If he's been a locker room problem another week or 2 couldn't hurt that much. Getting nothing is a major disappointment!

 

[El Guapo]

The Packers aren't in a rebuilding mode but one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl. Therefore being fine with a drop-off in production for this season is unacceptable.

I've seen you state this in multiple threads, but the Packers have been a Super Bowl favorite for most of the past decade. You cannot act like any season is different than the others. Teams need to keep shedding age and finding new studs, which doesn't necessarily equate to your assumed drop-off in production. In fact, with the easiest schedule in 2016 this might be the best time as ever to break in a new guard.

We are always re-building. Don't kid yourself. The Packers will never go "all in" for a Super Bowl year under this regime. They will keep making changes for long term success.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I'm not ready to jump off a bridge either but Sitton was not only a solid player during his tenure with the Packers but one of the best guards in the league.

Sure. However, the operative may be "was". I'm not saying he's washed up, but it's fairly likely that he has already played his best football.

That said, I wish him the very best. He was always a warrior.

 

[longtimefan]

The Packers — like the gold-standard Patriots — are a prudent organization with a strict adherance to cost-efficiency. Once your cap hit outstrips your production, you’re vulnerable.

Two years ago, the Patriots suddenly traded guard Logan Mankins — a team captain, a Pro Bowl player the previous season and the heart-and-soul of their offensive line — to the Buccaneers at cut-down time.

They moved their right guard to left guard, their center to right guard and inserted rookie Bryan Stork at center — and won the Super Bowl. Mankins played one inglorious season with the Buccaneers and retired.

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/big-question-for-bears-why-is-josh-sitton-available/

 

[Vrill]

Yeah, I figured that some kind of inner-team drama might be involved. You just don't cut one of your better players without a good reason to do so. TT and MM are not dummies. There is a method to what they do. They didn't just wake up one morning and decide to cut Sitton. There is a lot more to the story. As someone else said, we might not ever know the reason, but there WAS a reason.

 

[PikeBadger]

I'm not so sure about that. IMO, If you listen to what he says and doesn't say about Sitton, certain clues are revealed. MM also seems to be choosing his words very carefully on the subject .

When talking about Sitton, McCarthy's emphasis on "players being evaluated in the locker room" and "the locker room is the most important room in our building" seems telling. Then MM ducks the question about the timing of the Sitton decision, has me thinking that the move was a result of something not right with Sitton in the locker room and it was rather recent. Which explains why trying to trade him was last a minute thing. Based on what Chicago, the first team to interview Sitton, paid him, I really can't imagine that there wouldn't have been other teams willing to trade something for him, if he had been on the trading block earlier then Saturday.

We may never know the full story and it may have been a compilation of things, including cap space, but it sure feels like it was a last minute decision, possibly based on conduct (not just on money and performance) and sadly, one that saw the Packers get absolutely nothing in exchange for a pretty damn good football player.

I guess it could be Jim Ringo version 2016. I'd prefer to think Sitton didn't do anything to cause this to happen but I'm not naive enough to know that players can and do cause problems from time to time.

 

[El Guapo]

A good comparison of the Sitton move to the Patriot's move with Mankins, with the only difference being that Belichik was able to trade him. Here is a decent follow-up on how the move went for New England: http://nesn.com/2015/06/logan-mankins-trade-ultimately-a-win-for-patriots-despite-tim-wright-cut/

"The Patriots’ offensive line originally struggled last season, but by the time the playoffs rolled around, they had found a unit that could get the job done with Dan Connolly and Ryan Wendell at guard and Bryan Stork at center."

 

[Vince Lombardi]

Not that this is gospel but Bill Michels is saying he's hearing from his source that this basically has been simmering for a couple of years. Sounds like something Sitton said/did in the last week must have been the last straw.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Even back in 2008 when it was very apparent that Brett Favre's time in GB was done, TT and Co. buckled down and were able to get what ended up being a 3rd round pick from the Jets for him, while also keeping him (temporarily) from going to a rival. That pick eventually was used in the trade that allowed us to draft Clay Matthews. Now I'm not saying that Sitton's trade value was higher then Favre's, it just stings we got squadoosh for a guy that was simply cut and quickly found a team willing to pay him more money then the Packers would have paid him this year for his services.

 

[Vrill]

I think the fact that no Super Bowl contenders looked at him or wanted to trade for him is a story in itself. Sitton is going into a dumpster fire situation in Chicago. If that is the best he could do, then maybe there is some credence to some type of inner-team drama or back issues...or perhaps even performance slippage. Teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Broncos, Seahawks, Cardinals and Panthers can always use a good offensive lineman. But he goes to Chicago?

I'd like to see a list of teams that were interested in him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think the fact that no Super Bowl contenders looked at him or wanted to trade for him is a story in itself.
I'd like to see a list of teams that were interested in him.

I can understand if on Saturday, Packers begin shopping him, why they couldn't find a quick willing trade partner. There is a lot that goes into evaluating such a trade. It sounds like he had a lot of interest after he was released, the Bears just happen to be his first visit. Let's face it, who better to sign with, when you are ticked off at your previous employer, then one of its biggest rivals?

 

[Vrill]

Let's face it, who better to sign with, when you are ticked off at your previous employer, then one of its biggest rivals?

Very true, but the Bears are *maybe* a 5-6 win team at best this year. So hes chasing revenge with our rival instead of a ring? He could get revenge on us by signing with a playoff team in the NFC if he wanted. Sweeter revenge would be beating us in the playoffs. Not in the regular season (and we'll likely sweep Chicago this season anyway)

 

[Curly Calhoun]

2016 Cap numbers:

Sitton = $6.6 million
Lang = $6.2 million
Tretter = $788,850
Lane Taylor = RFA (last year's RFA 2nd round tender was about $2.4 million)

So, I have to ask why are the Packers going to spend almost $13 million on Sitton & Lang? Why not just pay Tretter and Taylor a combined $3.5 million and use the excess $9.5 million elsewhere (like ILB or TE)?

IMO, Tretter would be an upgrade, mainly because Sitton has had so many nagging injuries and chronic back problems. We saw first hand how much more athletic Tretter is when he played LT the week after Sitton got destroyed playing LT. Not saying Sitton is a bum, he's a fine guard, MM should never have stuck him at LT. But, Tretter is an ascending player, and Sitton is entering his twilight.

Lang is also a fine guard, but, is he that much better than Tretter or Taylor in 2016?

They gave up 49 sacks in 2015. Wasn't really Sitton and Lang's fault, I'd probably blame the injuries to Bakhtiari and Bulaga for most of the sacks. But still, they're allocating $13 million on what are supposed to be a couple of stud OG's, and the line ain't getting it done anyway...what's the point?

Also, in 2014 and 2015, the Packers struggled mightily to convert 3rd & 4th down with a yard or less to go. Again and again the RB's got stuffed in those situations. If Sitton and Lang are so darn good, why is that?

I'd be fine with a 2016 offensive line like this:

LT Bakhtiari
LG Tretter
C Linsley
RG Taylor or Walker or Rotheram
RT Bulaga

(I could be talked into keeping Lang, and playing Tretter at RG.)

I'm sure a lot of people gave you grief when you originally posted this - I might have been tempted myself. Now, after Josh Sitton has been let go, you end up looking like a Prophet. Nicely done.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Very true, but the Bears are *maybe* a 5-6 win team at best this year. So hes chasing revenge with our rival instead of a ring? He could get revenge on us by signing with a playoff team in the NFC if he wanted. Sweeter revenge would be beating us in the playoffs. Not in the regular season (and we'll likely sweep Chicago this season anyway)

Guessing the $21.5 M over three years, with a $10 million signing bonus coming from the Bears was enough to offset the sadness he may have felt in possibly not having a legitimate shot at a second ring.

 

[Michael Burton]

Well, I didn't handle this well

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[Michael Burton]

I want an explanation TED! I'll jump!

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[PikeBadger]

http://chicago.suntimes.com/sports/big-question-for-bears-why-is-josh-sitton-available/

Uh oh.... What does Thompson know???

 

[headofcheeze29]

We should have seen the writing on the wall. He had a bad year last year. His foot has not and will never heal according to Josh himself. He still gets tons of respect around the league and pro bowl votes but that is from what he did long ago.

C'mon man.... "he still gets tons of respect around the league and pro bowl votes but that is from what he did long ago."

Is that a joke? You mean setting the NFL record for most consecutive snaps without giving up a sack, which ended at the beginning/middle of last season? Yeah, because I guess that means "long ago". This is an absolute bonehead move by the Packers. You plug in an unproven Center and now stick a Guard next to him that has started two games in his career? All you fans seem to forget Sitton was the only one who played all of last season while the rest of the O-line was out with boo boo's, this guy gutted it out and even moved out to tackle for the good of the team in week 17 vs the Vikings. How soon we forget what a cornerstone this guy has been for our franchise since '09. It's disappointing to say the least. Even more disappointing that Thompson stuck it to him this late so now he can't even go out and get the money he deserves, like he could have had they cut him early on, since you know good and well they knew they were going to do this all off season.

 

[PackerDNA]

McCarthy announces Lane Taylor will start at left guard at Jacksonville.

Unreal. A guy who's done nothing for 3 years, gets a ridiculous contract, and spends the pre-season getting slapped around by other teams 2nd , 3rd teamers and guys currently out of the league is charged with being one of the guys to protect Rodgers.
What could go wrong?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Unreal. A guy who's done nothing for 3 years, gets a ridiculous contract, and spends the pre-season getting slapped around by other teams 2nd , 3rd teamers and guys currently out of the league is charged with being one of the guys to protect Rodgers.
What could go wrong?

Packers will get to find out real fast with Malik Jackson in week 1...plus the Packers have a new center too!

 

[PackerDNA]

Even back in 2008 when it was very apparent that Brett Favre's time in GB was done, TT and Co. buckled down and were able to get what ended up being a 3rd round pick from the Jets for him, while also keeping him (temporarily) from going to a rival. That pick eventually was used in the trade that allowed us to draft Clay Matthews. Now I'm not saying that Sitton's trade value was higher then Favre's, it just stings we got squadoosh for a guy that was simply cut and quickly found a team willing to pay him more money then the Packers would have paid him this year for his services.

Squadoosh.
Beautiful. Can't wait to use that on my buddies at the bar. "You get squadoosh,Sweeney!!!"
Heh.