All Sitton & Lang & OL threads merged

[headofcheeze29]

I'd like to know how replacing a guy with only 8 pressures given up last year with a guy who gave up 9 this pre-season is "best for the team" as TT said. Especially when many think this team is a championship caliber team this year.

Best comment I've heard yet LOL. This move is such a joke. I didn't know those numbers, but that is HILARIOUS. Get ready for another season of AR running for his life, getting sacked a ton, and throwing on the run 24/7. Only blessing for us is that he is pretty good at throwing on the run haha, if we are going the glass half full approach.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Squadoosh.
Beautiful. Can't wait to use that on my buddies at the bar. "You get squadoosh,Sweeney!!!"
Heh.

I got that from a well known Poker Commentator, Norman Chad. Basically, when a player holds onto a hand too long and ends up with nothing at the end, he gets "Squadoosh". Which is exactly what I feel the Packers did with Sitton if they had any intentions of trading him prior to this past weekend.

http://www.espnfrontrow.com/2013/08...f-squadoosh-and-other-valuable-poker-insight/

 

[swhitset]

Packers will get to find out real fast with Malik Jackson in week 1...plus the Packers have a new center too!

No, they really don't. Tretter played quite a bit last year at Center and was actually slotted to be the starter over Linsley before he was hurt in his rookie year. Tretter was quite impressive last year. As for Taylor at guard... I am shall we say a bit apprehensive ?

 

[headofcheeze29]

Yup. There are no guarantees. What's you point?

There's no guarantee that Sitton would not get injured, would stay with Packers after next season, or will maintain his level of performance. There are also no guarantees that Tretter, Bulaga, or Taylor will not be better than Sitton.

If any of those were a guarantee, I'd lean heavily towards it being that Sitton would not get injured. If you think back to last season, he was actually the only one to play the whole season, while everyone else on the O-line was out inured against a Vikings team that he had to move out and play tackle for. Bulaga getting hurt, yeah, that's pretty much a guarantee every year at this point. Also a guarantee, Tretter and Taylor being better than Sitton, that will literally never be the case, Sitton isn't just some Joe Schmo, he's an All Pro guard and Pro Bowler. I get that your trying to be positive, but I don't see you being very realistic right now. Josh Sitton wanted to retire a Packer. It's obvious now that Ted Thompson and Mike McCarthy didn't care about that. Sitton gave us the best chance at protecting Rodgers this year, which gives us the best chance at winning another Super Bowl. That is surely not the case now.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Th

A good comparison of the Sitton move to the Patriot's move with Mankins, with the only difference being that Belichik was able to trade him. Here is a decent follow-up on how the move went for New England: http://nesn.com/2015/06/logan-mankins-trade-ultimately-a-win-for-patriots-despite-tim-wright-cut/

"The Patriots’ offensive line originally struggled last season, but by the time the playoffs rolled around, they had found a unit that could get the job done with Dan Connolly and Ryan Wendell at guard and Bryan Stork at center."

O line was the reason the Pats got thwarted by the Broncos in the AFC championship game. Brady was a punching bag.
At least Belicheck received something for Mankind in a trade. TT got nothing for a pro bowl player. That is one of the most pathetic GM moves ever. If he let's Sitton walk after the season the Packers likely get a nice high comp pick and stil save the cap room. Now they have zero. Cutting Sitton was a knee jerk reaction.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If he let's Sitton walk after the season the Packers likely get a nice high comp pick and stil save the cap room. Now they have zero. Cutting Sitton was a knee jerk reaction.

While I agree with some of what you said, in that it would have been nice to have gotten something by trading Sitton, one benefit of the release was the Cap money saved this year. This part of it had to have been a factor. I think Josh Sitton is still a Packer if there wasn't immediate and substantial cap savings ($6.55 M) on cutting him when they did.

 

[gonzozab]

Let's face it, unless you are Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers, you don't get a voice at the head table. The nail that sticks up gets pounded down, and Sitton just learned it. There already was a good chance that he wouldn't get re-signed after the season but some apparent issues made the decision easier and come quicker. I was surprised by this move but not shocked.

This is another example of TT making long-term moves, even if it sacrifices the short term.

Problem is, Ted is always sacrificing the short term.

 

[sschind]

First, I didn't see anything in your previous post that referred to TT always being right. However, if it did, this is not the place to assume that people would see the sarcasm - 'in Ted we trust' is a real thing to some folks.

That's true. Some people are so set in their ways, on both sides of the argument, that everything they read is taken literally and 100% to heart. Back when Favre went to the vikings so many people were saying he just did it to "stick it to Ted" and that his "legacy was ruined" that I thought maybe some people would see the connection. That's why I specifically used those words and phrases. At first when no one got it I thought maybe the Favre ordeal was over and people had forgotten but after reading several responses I guess it's still a hot subject to some. The bottom line is some players are free to take work wherever they please but others are not. I see that now. Double standards abound in this world why should sports be any different.

 

[jetfixer]

After four games or so our roster should look a little different. With Linsley on PUP, he can come back between weeks 6-9? Pennel after his four games, I'm guessing short of an injury, Callahan and an undrafted FA come off the roster. I hate the Sitton situation but, if he was hurt and on the PUP we wouldn't be going nuts like we are. The bad is losing him for nothing.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

No, they really don't. Tretter played quite a bit last year at Center and was actually slotted to be the starter over Linsley before he was hurt in his rookie year. Tretter was quite impressive last year. As for Taylor at guard... I am shall we say a bit apprehensive ?

Yes, I know Tretter has played and was slated to be the starter. However this is the first year he'll actually start at center and the fact that he's only every played center is when Linsley is hurt would indicate the team thinks Linsley is better at center. I'm just pointing out that the interior of the oline might be prone to some growing pains early in the season.

 

[PackerDNA]

The next time MM or TT spout off about 'continuity and chemistry' being so important to an o line, someone should punch them in the face.

 

[longtimefan]

Is a racism rumor and/or a sensitive HC with lingering hurt feelings just a media myth or blog fodder that's used for building a straw man (via controversy) designed to create more hits for their respective websites and sales for the dying print media?

See someone else heard same thing

 

[adambr2]

While I agree with some of what you said, in that it would have been nice to have gotten something by trading Sitton, one benefit of the release was the Cap money saved this year. This part of it had to have been a factor. I think Josh Sitton is still a Packer if there wasn't immediate and substantial cap savings ($6.55 M) on cutting him when they did.

There will be a cap benefit as you say. So if we were a rebuilding team with a 6 win ceiling this year and needed to try some younger bodies at guard and look to contend in 2017 and beyond and free up some extra cap room for our next window, this would be a lot easier to rationalize.

However, for a SB contender that relies on elite QB play to remain a contender, it's pretty baffling.

 

[P-E-Z]

Sitton signed with the bears

 

[Poppa San]

Sitton signed with the bears

Glad to see you found your way out of the cave. Was it a long weekend in there? Hope you weren't lonely.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Cutting Sitton reminds me of the Dan Devine era. It was a bone headed knee jerk reaction that makes no sense especially to the rest of the team. After Devine worked his magic the Packer brass set up a review panel to oversee the GM to make sure the GM didn't commit an atrocious move. Looks like Mark Murphy must have dismantled that safeguard.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

However, for a SB contender that relies on elite QB play to remain a contender, it's pretty baffling.

I think that is the part why most of us don't fully understand or can get behind this move.....yet. But as some reporters and fans are now starting to say, MM and TT didn't just wake up Saturday morning and say "Lets cut our Pro Bowl G and weaken this team". For whatever their reasons were behind cutting Sitton, in their eyes it was a move to better the team going forward. As a Packer fan I hope they are correct and its them sitting in GB at the end of the season saying "See, ya just got to trust us".

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Not getting anything in trade is a serious disappointment. But how serious, really? 30 year old OGs don't draw much in trade value. We see a lot of quality vets across the league floated as trade bait with no takers or cheap compensation.

The Bears signing Sitton to a three year contract averaging $7.5 million a season with $10 million guaranteed tells me the Packers could have at least gotten sonething in return for him in a trade.

I think the fact that no Super Bowl contenders looked at him or wanted to trade for him is a story in itself. Sitton is going into a dumpster fire situation in Chicago. If that is the best he could do, then maybe there is some credence to some type of inner-team drama or back issues...or perhaps even performance slippage. Teams like the Patriots, Steelers, Broncos, Seahawks, Cardinals and Panthers can always use a good offensive lineman. But he goes to Chicago?

According to reports several teams were interested in signing Sitton. I don't know about his reasons to sign with the Bears but it doesn't mean he's done.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Teams need to keep shedding age and finding new studs, which doesn't necessarily equate to your assumed drop-off in production. In fact, with the easiest schedule in 2016 this might be the best time as ever to break in a new guard.

I'm absolutely fine with the Packers replacing veterans whose performance has declined with younger players capable of adequately replace them. Don't fool yourself though releasing Sitton and starting Taylor at left guard isn't such a situation and the drop-off in performance will be significant.

While the team has an easy regular season schedule they will face tough opponents in the playoffs so weakening the offensive line wasn't a smart move.

Sure. However, the operative may be "was". I'm not saying he's washed up, but it's fairly likely that he has already played his best football.

Sitton didn't show any signs of decline last season. Therefore I expect him to be able to play on a high level in 2016 as well.

Uh oh.... What does Thompson know???

The Patriots at least received a fourth round pick and a tight end who caught six touchdowns in 2014 in return for Mankins.

After four games or so our roster should look a little different. With Linsley on PUP, he can come back between weeks 6-9?

Linsley can be activated from the PUP list after week 6.

I hate the Sitton situation but, if he was hurt and on the PUP we wouldn't be going nuts like we are. The bad is losing him for nothing.

There's no way to prevent injuries but a team's general manager should refrain from releasing an All-Pro guard less than 10 days before the season opener.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You're right in a perfect world, but that isn't the reality of the NFL.

The Packers were in a perfect situation at left guard with Sitton being under contract for this season. Unfortunately the team's general manager felt the need for whatever reason to release an All-Pro player without any necessity.

 

[ExpatPacker]

The Packers are trying to put lipstick on a pig with their spin on Sitton's release. It still doesn't make any sense. How all of a sudden was Sitton a locker-room problem? disgruntled about his contract? Give me a break.

This is a significant downgrade at OG for the Packers. all the spin aside.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I'm absolutely fine with the Packers replacing veterans whose performance has declined with younger players capable of adequately replace them. Don't fool yourself though releasing Sitton and starting Taylor at left guard isn't such a situation and the drop-off in performance will be significant.

While the team has an easy regular season schedule they will face tough opponents in the playoffs so weakening the offensive line wasn't a smart move.



Sitton didn't show any signs of decline last season. Therefore I expect him to be able to play on a high level in 2016 as well.



The Patriots at least received a fourth round pick and a tight end who caught six touchdowns in 2014 in return for Mankins.



Linsley can be activated from the PUP list after week 6.



There's no way to prevent injuries but a team's general manager should refrain from releasing an All-Pro guard less than 10 days before the season opener.

It seems opinions vary with regard to whether or not Sitton's play declined in 2015:


While Sitton's play declined somewhat in 2015, he's still among the better guards in the league, and should garner significant attention on the free-agent market.

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/1092464

Despite his consistency, Sitton is at the age where you can expect to see a decline in play, and that decline may have already started in 2015. He allowed 23 pressures last season, the most he has surrendered since 2009. He allowed just one pressure over the first five games of the season, and then at least one pressure in every game after that. He was penalized 10 times, which was a career-high, and his run-blocking wasn’t as good as he’s produced in the past. Even though Sitton was better in past seasons than in 2015, he remained a top-six guard—but his play might be a sign of things to come.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pr...d-on-josh-sitton-t-j-lang-or-david-bakhtiari/

While Sitton’s play declined somewhat in 2015, he’s still among the better guards in the league.

http://news--site.com/2016/09/03/report-packers-planning-to-cut-all-pro-guard-josh-sitton/


Make of that what you will.

 

[Poppa San]

The Packers were in a perfect situation at left guard with Sitton being under contract for this season. Unfortunately the team's general manager felt the need for whatever reason to release an All-Pro player without any necessity.

I am sure in his mind there was a necessity. He just didn't bother to tell it to more than a very select few out of the 7,349,347,988 people on the planet at the time (http://www.census.gov/popclock/)

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Despite his consistency, Sitton is at the age where you can expect to see a decline in play, and that decline may have already started in 2015. He allowed 23 pressures last season, the most he has surrendered since 2009. He allowed just one pressure over the first five games of the season, and then at least one pressure in every game after that. He was penalized 10 times, which was a career-high, and his run-blocking wasn’t as good as he’s produced in the past. Even though Sitton was better in past seasons than in 2015, he remained a top-six guard—but his play might be a sign of things to come.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pr...d-on-josh-sitton-t-j-lang-or-david-bakhtiari/

Pro Football Focus ranked Sitton the eighth best offensive lineman entering this season. I guess they don't expect his performance to drop off significantly.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I am sure in his mind there was a necessity.

I don't expect Thompson to ever publicly talk about the reasons for releasing Sitton but it would be interesting to know. From a performance standpoint there wasn't a necessity to make the move.