All Sitton & Lang & OL threads merged

[Mondio]

I doubt any of us will ever get even half the picture, let alone all the details. On the surface, I don't think there's any way a person could argue that cutting your #1 guard makes your offensive line better. That said, there are more than a couple scenarios where cutting him was in the best interest of the team. Without any details, they're just guesses, but they range from injury concerns to locker room stuff. I doubt the cap savings was the driving force behind all of this, but it may have been part of it. Maybe it was? Regardless, this team has to move forward. I imagine we'll be a little worse in the short term, with the long term yet to be determined this season. If we're worse weeks 1-4, but better when November hits, I'll be just fine

ETA: by most accounts leading up to this, Sitton has been a well liked teammate for quite a while in this league. I don't think you get to that point by being a racist, closeted or not. and if he had gone on a little rant, he has enough of a history with this team and his teammates, that i'm sure it could have been worked thru. People say and do things they sometimes wish they hadn't. I think he had a good enough relationship with his teammates and the staff that it wouldn't lead to this on its own either.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

ESPN reporting that McCarthy was unhappy that Sitton criticized the offensive gameplan for the Packer's week 16 game against Arizona...apparently McCarthy was offended that Sitton felt the way EVERY OTHER PACKER FAN felt. Article seemed to imply that Sitton was considered not a great locker room presence which seems like some serious damage control considering all anyone has ever heard is how tight the oline is and how well they all work together. NFL coaches are notoriously sensitive and can't stand someone pointing out potential flaws and if McCarthy's feelings truly were hurt by Sitton's comments then I gotta say, I lose a little respect for him.

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-...several-layers-to-packers-cutting-josh-sitton

 

[gonzozab]

1. We may never know the whole story about the decision to release Sitton. In fact it's all but a certainty. But I wouldn't be surprised if in the near future we hear Sitton's side of the story and puts Thompson on blast.

2. Who's to say McCarthy was on board with this decision? Yes, both he and Thompson discuss what cuts to make but ultimately it's TT who makes the decisions. For all we know McCarthy is seething about this. To think the two of them agree on everything is completely naive.

3. I wouldn't mind this move if there was a viable backup plan to replacing him, but clearly Taylor is not the answer. He's a scrub who played poorly this preseason. In a year where a Super Bowl championship is a realistic goal, I don't think a year when you are a championship contender is a good time to "focus on the growth of the offensive line" as Thompson put it. It's decisions like this that explain why we only have one championship with Rodgers. Just think, this will be year 25 with Favre or Rodgers at the helm, and while Thompson has all but nothing to do with the Favre era, we've only got two championships in a quarter century to show for it. Rodgers window is closing and if I were him I'd be livid with this move. How can he win another Super Bowl when your boss is in a perpetual state of looking to the future? At some point the future has to be now.

 

[gonzozab]

ESPN reporting that McCarthy was unhappy that Sitton criticized the offensive gameplan for the Packer's week 16 game against Arizona...apparently McCarthy was offended that Sitton felt the way EVERY OTHER PACKER FAN felt. Article seemed to imply that Sitton was considered not a great locker room presence which seems like some serious damage control considering all anyone has ever heard is how tight the oline is and how well they all work together. NFL coaches are notoriously sensitive and can't stand someone pointing out potential flaws and if McCarthy's feelings truly were hurt by Sitton's comments then I gotta say, I lose a little respect for him.

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-...several-layers-to-packers-cutting-josh-sitton

McCarthy can be unhappy about it all he wants, if true, but there's no reason he and TT can't suck it up for one more season, let him go via free agency, and get a compensatory pick out of it. This move just made this team weaker than it was 48 hours ago and could cost the team a Super bowl championship.

 

[Packerlifer]

One thing for sure our pass blocking took a dip with Lane Taylor. He has made some nice blocks in the run game. But no doubt we see stupid penalties and blown pass blocks from Taylor early at least. Hopefully he improves through the season and isn't a liability come playoffs.

I think the Coach anticipated your concerns. http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...5/mccarthy-taylor-replace-sitton-lg/89883266/

 

[Mondio]

ESPN reporting that McCarthy was unhappy that Sitton criticized the offensive gameplan for the Packer's week 16 game against Arizona...apparently McCarthy was offended that Sitton felt the way EVERY OTHER PACKER FAN felt. Article seemed to imply that Sitton was considered not a great locker room presence which seems like some serious damage control considering all anyone has ever heard is how tight the oline is and how well they all work together. NFL coaches are notoriously sensitive and can't stand someone pointing out potential flaws and if McCarthy's feelings truly were hurt by Sitton's comments then I gotta say, I lose a little respect for him.

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-...several-layers-to-packers-cutting-josh-sitton

I doubt this was over hurt feelings. I learned this lesson in my first year of football in 7th grade. A bunch of 8th graders were always complaining about the play calling. They got benched and put in two 7th graders in their place. Myself and another guy. At both guard positions coincidently enough.

I was a RB and linebacker, he was a WR, and they put us at guard We didn't ***** about play calls, and neither did anyone else. Running the same plays, we won the last 3 games against better teams.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure MM is able to handle criticism from anyone. I'm also sure I wouldn't expect him to lose control of a team because someone forgot the time and place to air grievances and couldn't shut up. If in fact that was one of the reasons. Amy coach worth a **** would do the same.

 

[Packerlifer]

http://www.packers.com/media-center...-program/329f660e-6e22-40fd-b356-495e3cc50510

 

[PikeBadger]

All I know is judging this move now is pointless. If, and I know it may be a big if, Taylor can step up and perform as well as Sitton I wonder how many fans ragging on TT now will admit they were wrong. I'm sure some will but some will always contend that it was a stupid move. The move itself does not matter. What matters is the results of the move and that won't be known for some time yet.

The likely answer is: very close to zero

Armchair GM's don't roll that way.

 

[Half Empty]

I doubt this was over hurt feelings. I learned this lesson in my first year of football in 7th grade. A bunch of 8th graders were always complaining about the play calling. They got benched and put in two 7th graders in their place. Myself and another guy. At both guard positions coincidently enough.

I was a RB and linebacker, he was a WR, and they put us at guard We didn't ***** about play calls, and neither did anyone else. Running the same plays, we won the last 3 games against better teams.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure MM is able to handle criticism from anyone. I'm also sure I wouldn't expect him to lose control of a team because someone forgot the time and place to air grievances and couldn't shut up. If in fact that was one of the reasons. Amy coach worth a **** would do the same.

Looks like maybe you and the other guy were better players. Don't think that's going to happen with Sitton's replacement.

Not sure about the bold. Are you saying that any competent coach would summarily dismiss perhaps the best player at his position, without a proven backup, with no compensation, immediately prior to the start of the season?

 

[Sky King]

Is a racism rumor and/or a sensitive HC with lingering hurt feelings just a media myth or blog fodder that's used for building a straw man (via controversy) designed to create more hits for their respective websites and sales for the dying print media?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I am thinking that the plan was to let Sitton go as a FA next season, due to money, play slippage, and/or injury concern. At the final cut, Packers had a change in plans due to either Sitton play slippage/injury or improvement of players for plan B. I read some where that the Packers did it on purpose to not allow Sitton to go to a foe and gel on their line. This is ridiculous.

Nowhere in your comment did you mention the cap savings that will carryover to next season. I think it would be foolish to think that did not factor into the decision.

 

[HardRightEdge]

McCarthy announces Lane Taylor will start at left guard at Jacksonville.

The line shuffle conjectures were implausible.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Is a racism rumor and/or a sensitive HC with lingering hurt feelings just a media myth or blog fodder that's used for building a straw man (via controversy) designed to create more hits for their respective websites and sales for the dying print media?

So, what were the alleged "lingering hurt feelings"? I'm curious because Woodson was summarily discharged without any offer of a reduced contract, replaced by M.D. Jennings no less, after having criticized Capers in the press after the Kaepernick romp-a-thon in the 2012 playoffs.

Edit: Never mind. I found it. From Demovsky:

"The first public sign of trouble between Sitton and the organization came last season after Sitton criticized the offensive game plan after the Packers lost at Arizona in Week 16. Less than two weeks later, McCarthy responded to a question about players being critical of the offense by saying, “Josh Sitton needs to play guard” instead of bellyaching about play calling.

Given the Woodson experience, I would guess it's one factor among several.

 

[JBlood]

TT knows more about his personnel than anyone on this board (I think). But this is a move that could end his time w the packers if it results in an injury to Rodgers. It makes no sense to me.

 

[Packer Brother]

TT knows more about his personnel than anyone on this board (I think). But this is a move that could end his time w the packers if it results in an injury to Rodgers. It makes no sense to me.

TT is safe as can be. Can't see Murphy ever having the guts to do the unthinkable.

 

[Arthur Squires]

Lane has a big task week 1. And that big task name is Malik Jackson!!!

 

[Packerlifer]

View from the trenches:

T.J. Lang http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Lang-It-was-a-tough-weekend/f4a39816-e41c-48bc-99d1-1c9b52009efc

Bryan Bulaga http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Bulaga_on_losing_Sitton/532760e9-331d-404e-82b8-6bf208556fbf

David Bakhtiari http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...ons-raw-packers-bid-sitton-farewell/89876314/

 

[jetfixer]

My point is that releasing Sitton was a huge mistake as it's probable that none of the players lining up at left guard this season will perform close to the level Sitton has over the last few years.

They have to be as good as Sitton this year, has nothing to do with the past. Yet, I'm guessing you are correct and we should be concerned.

 

[El Guapo]

Let's face it, unless you are Brett Favre or Aaron Rodgers, you don't get a voice at the head table. The nail that sticks up gets pounded down, and Sitton just learned it. There already was a good chance that he wouldn't get re-signed after the season but some apparent issues made the decision easier and come quicker. I was surprised by this move but not shocked.

This is another example of TT making long-term moves, even if it sacrifices the short term.

 

[PFanCan]

McCarthy spoke a lot about Sitton, but said exactly nothing.

 

[El Guapo]

The fallacy is in believing that this is Tecmo Bowl. One can't just put the best 22 players out on the field without recognizing the salary cap and thinking about the future. I am fairly confident that EVERYONE in the Packers brass understands that there could be a drop-off in production at LG in 2016. Of course, that's not a given and Lane Taylor or Tretter could surprise us all. More importantly is how this pans out in 2017 or 2018. We all know that this isn't the first time that TT has rolled the dice at the guard position.

 

[XPack]

More importantly is how this pans out in 2017 or 2018.

I still fail to see why we passed this in 2016. We've passed over a well established O-line in a situation with Vikings down a big lot and a healthy chance for SB.... For what?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

McCarthy spoke a lot about Sitton, but said exactly nothing.

I'm not so sure about that. IMO, If you listen to what he says and doesn't say about Sitton, certain clues are revealed. MM also seems to be choosing his words very carefully on the subject .

When talking about Sitton, McCarthy's emphasis on "players being evaluated in the locker room" and "the locker room is the most important room in our building" seems telling. Then MM ducks the question about the timing of the Sitton decision, has me thinking that the move was a result of something not right with Sitton in the locker room and it was rather recent. Which explains why trying to trade him was last a minute thing. Based on what Chicago, the first team to interview Sitton, paid him, I really can't imagine that there wouldn't have been other teams willing to trade something for him, if he had been on the trading block earlier then Saturday.

We may never know the full story and it may have been a compilation of things, including cap space, but it sure feels like it was a last minute decision, possibly based on conduct (not just on money and performance) and sadly, one that saw the Packers get absolutely nothing in exchange for a pretty damn good football player.

 

[jrock645]

Pokerbrat I get a similar feeling.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm fine with Taylor taking Sitton's spot, if Taylor is ready, it's a big savings. What I'm not fine with is that if the Packers knew this was a distinct possibility, why didn't they simply trade Sitton a month or two ago when they would have had more then a few willing trade partners? The Bears deal tells me Sitton was a bargain for 2016 and other teams needing help at Guard no doubt would have thought the same. I just keep going back to the idea that this wasn't just about saving cap space, something else had to have happened and quite recently, to justify purging a quality starter and get nothing in exchange.