Aaron Jones to IR

[Deleted member 6794]

Add a RB to the list of things to get too re-vamp this offense. Jones can be productive in certain situations but we need a guy to grind it out. I'm fine with Williams as the 3. Were just gonna have to keep Jimmie Graham at TE cause of.the dead $ and more pressing wholes to fill elseware

Thompson really left this offense dry on talemt. That's for sure.

The Packers are fine with Jones and Williams being their top two running backs. While the team releasing Graham would result in significant dead money they would still save $5.3 million of cap space.

So, bet that the few times you'll use him will work? And that the others guys won't load up to stop him on those occasions?

Opponents mostly don't put an extra defender close to the LOS to stop the run vs. the Packers though with only 10 out of 54 running backs with at least 80 carries have faced a loaded box on a smaller percentage of attempts than him.

 

[sschind]

The Packers are fine with Jones and Williams being their top two running backs. While the team releasing Graham would result in significant dead money they would still save $5.3 million of cap space.
.

They would save 5.3 million but they would need to replace him eating into that savings. I doubt Tonyan is that guy. Judging from the list in the other thread I don't think there is anyone out there I would rather have than Graham for the 5.3 million dollars.

 

[longtimefan]

I am 99 percent sure Jimmy stays

 

[Deleted member 6794]

They would save 5.3 million but they would need to replace him eating into that savings. I doubt Tonyan is that guy. Judging from the list in the other thread I don't think there is anyone out there I would rather have than Graham for the 5.3 million dollars.

I'm leaning towards the Packers keeping Graham as well but if Gutekunst believes there's a way to upgrade the position with less than $5.3 million for next season he might move on from him.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm leaning towards the Packers keeping Graham as well but if Gutekunst believes there's a way to upgrade the position with less than $5.3 million for next season he might move on from him.

I think we all know what TT would have done in this situation, but never know with Gute. Besides the money side of it, have to remember that by keeping JG and playing him, you are taking snaps away from developing another guy, who may not initially give you the best bang for your buck, but in the long run was worth cutting ties with Graham. Hopefully, the coaches and Gute are very clear as to what JG brings to this team in other ways, as well as what they might expect in improvement out of him due to being with AR another year, if he is kept around.

 

[swhitset]

So, bet that the few times you'll use him will work? And that the others guys won't load up to stop him on those occasions?

I’d say that is exactly what McCarthy did do.... and apparently, considering his high yards per carry average, it was working. The Packers had a myriad of other problems this season, but I don’t think misusing Aaron Jones was one of them.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think calling him one of the best running backs in the NFL might be overboard as well... please don’t bother quoting his yards per carry average at me until he can find a way to stay on the field.

Ok, so you're basically saying health is the key ingredient to being one of the best? I mean, you ruled out any discussion of how good he is on the field as supporting him being really good, so what metric do you use for being really good? If we can't use actual performance as evidence of being good, do we use minutes played? Because I'm not sure I'm gonna be convinced that Cole Beasley has been a better receiver over the last 4 years than Keenan Allen.

 

[Half Empty]

How about, in the same vein as coaching vs drafting, we view availability as an ingredient? Bo Jackson, for instance?

 

[swhitset]

Ok, so you're basically saying health is the key ingredient to being one of the best? I mean, you ruled out any discussion of how good he is on the field as supporting him being really good, so what metric do you use for being really good? If we can't use actual performance as evidence of being good, do we use minutes played? Because I'm not sure I'm gonna be convinced that Cole Beasley has been a better receiver over the last 4 years than Keenan Allen.

Well... I’m amused that I have to actually put these thoughts down in words... but the answer to your first question is Yes.. absolutely. In my opinion, Jones has not played nearly long enough to establish himself as “one of the best”. Most of his best running has come in small doses when the defense was not prepared to stop the run. Until he can maintain a similar yard per carry average against a defense prepared to stop the run... which he has not done to any significant degree, I will not respect an opinion professing him to be “one of the best” Montgomery had a pretty decent average a couple years ago too. Jones has potential.... but I do not believe that he has the durability to be a feature back... and so far his short history has supported that opinion. There is a difference between potential and actually being one of the best. You have to actually play to be anything.

 

[gbgary]

since we're not a running team and neither one will ever get the lion's share of carries (unless the other's injured) their sample sizes are always going to leave questions. now that analytics is a thing in the nfl, and seeing it says to be aggressive (pass) on 1st and 2nd downs, to keep the chains moving, their number of carries may diminish even more. touches will be the thing as it factors their inclusion in the passing game. who gets the most touches?

 

[brandon2348]

The fact remains if you look at when we lined up against a decent team and tried to impose the run game with Jones it failed pretty much all the time. Now some of that you could put on the offensive line but to think Jones is a bell cow back that you can line up and impose the run game with is a little far fetched at this point. Also, to call him one of the best in the league is ridiculous and yes staying healthy and being able to play through injuries is part of the "being one of the best" equation.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think we all know what TT would have done in this situation, but never know with Gute. Besides the money side of it, have to remember that by keeping JG and playing him, you are taking snaps away from developing another guy, who may not initially give you the best bang for your buck, but in the long run was worth cutting ties with Graham.

With Rodgers getting up there in age the Packers need to stop worrying about a veteran taking snaps away from a prospect who might develop into a decent player down the road. It's about winning now.

Therefore the team saving $5.3 million in cap space by possibly using that money on an upgrade at the position is only thing to consider when making a decision on Graham.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With Rodgers getting up there in age the Packers need to stop worrying about a veteran taking snaps away from a prospect who might develop into a decent player down the road. It's about winning now.

Therefore the team saving $5.3 million in cap space by possibly using that money on an upgrade at the position is only thing to consider when making a decision on Graham.

You and I don't disagree often, but in this case we do. BTW, I am in favor of keeping Graham. However, if Tonyan was considered to be an up and coming Tight End by the Packers staff, that would factor into whether Graham was kept or not. Much like the Packers trading Favre to give Rodgers the job. Was Rodgers better than Favre at the time they traded Brett? Now do the Packers currently have a TE with that bright of a future? Probably not and yes, playing multiple TE's during a game factors into the decision.

Just like in the case of Matthews, Cobb and possibly Perry now, the Packers didn't feel like the money saved by cutting them was worth it, since they had nobody else that they felt could step up and immediately play better.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You and I don't disagree often, but in this case we do. BTW, I am in favor of keeping Graham. However, if Tonyan was considered to be an up and coming Tight End by the Packers staff, that would factor into whether Graham was kept or not. Much like the Packers trading Favre to give Rodgers the job. Was Rodgers better than Favre at the time they traded Brett? Now do the Packers currently have a TE with that bright of a future? Probably not and yes, playing multiple TE's during a game factors into the decision.

Just like in the case of Matthews, Cobb and possibly Perry now, the Packers didn't feel like the money saved by cutting them was worth it, since they had nobody else that they felt could step up and immediately play better.

The quarterback position is unique with the backup not getting any meaningful snaps in most cases.

That's not true at tight end with Tonyan being able to develop, receiving playing time even while not being the #1 on the depth chart.

 

[Half Empty]

How much has Tonyan played this year? Just following the discussions, it usually seems folks are disappointed in how much he's on the field.

 

[Mondio]

Not enough if you ask me. He either isn't getting it in terms of the playbook or something else I don't find likely. I'm paraphrasing, but I remember them asking him how he's going to make the roster with all those established vets ahead of him in a crowded TE room in the preseason and he basically said, work my *** off in practice and every opportunity I get make it very hard for them to cut me. I thought it was awesome when he said that, because it's what I saw on the field too. Limited opportunity and he'd just go take the ball when it was his turn because he wasn't going to let the play end any other way. From what I've seen athleticism, drive and effort are not an issue with him. But something must be missing in practice that he's not earning more snaps. Or maybe they do think he's ready to jump, but they're keeping him hungry for next year. Kendricks is probably not re-signed, if he is, it will be cheap. Graham is probably still here, but lewis is going to retire at seasons end.

I'm not sure why he doesn't see the field more, my best guess is not knowing the playbook.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

How much has Tonyan played this year? Just following the discussions, it usually seems folks are disappointed in how much he's on the field.

Not much.....I see him as having 53 snaps on offense. 4 career targets and 3 catches for 70 yds and 1 TD (54 yds and the TD on the bomb VS Seattle). I know some may think he is the second coming of .......fill in name here........but hard to get too excited about him. Which was probably one of the reasons I pointed him out in reference to all those wanting the Packers to part ways with Graham. Great, we just saved $5.3 M in cap, but who takes up the slack?

Every year we have a handful of young players that have a decent game or 2 in the preseason and all of a sudden some want to cut vets that are being overpaid.

 

[XPack]

Not much.....I see him as having 53 snaps on offense. 4 career targets and 3 catches for 70 yds and 1 TD (54 yds and the TD on the bomb VS Seattle). I know some may think he is the second coming of .......fill in name here........but hard to get too excited about him. Which was probably one of the reasons I pointed him out in reference to all those wanting the Packers to part ways with Graham. Great, we just saved $5.3 M in cap, but who takes up the slack?

Every year we have a handful of young players that have a decent game or 2 in the preseason and all of a sudden some want to cut vets that are being overpaid.

He started off as a QB, then moved to WR where he did good too, before converting to TE. He has the size, speed and hands to make a good player. I can see you point in overhyping him, but he does need a bigger run out.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Well... I’m amused that I have to actually put these thoughts down in words... but the answer to your first question is Yes.. absolutely. In my opinion, Jones has not played nearly long enough to establish himself as “one of the best”. Most of his best running has come in small doses when the defense was not prepared to stop the run. Until he can maintain a similar yard per carry average against a defense prepared to stop the run... which he has not done to any significant degree, I will not respect an opinion professing him to be “one of the best” Montgomery had a pretty decent average a couple years ago too. Jones has potential.... but I do not believe that he has the durability to be a feature back... and so far his short history has supported that opinion. There is a difference between potential and actually being one of the best. You have to actually play to be anything.

So, in your opinion, Philip Lindsay is also a guy that can't hold for a full season since he also just got hurt? We won't know for certain but it appears likely that Jones could have come back in a couple of weeks from this injury and missed about two weeks due to injury. In the NFL, that's not bad for a running back.

And I'm wounded that you won't respect the opinion. Seems odd since it's just an opinion and that's "kinda" what happens on sports forums.

 

[swhitset]

So, in your opinion, Philip Lindsay is also a guy that can't hold for a full season since he also just got hurt? We won't know for certain but it appears likely that Jones could have come back in a couple of weeks from this injury and missed about two weeks due to injury. In the NFL, that's not bad for a running back.

And I'm wounded that you won't respect the opinion. Seems odd since it's just an opinion and that's "kinda" what happens on sports forums.

ok....

All I’ll say is there must be a lot of “bests” in your world.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Seems odd since it's just an opinion and that's "kinda" what happens on sports forums.

It kinda happens everywhere about everything. While this may be a hobby with limited personal consequences, the human condition entails a series of judgements and predictions most minutes of every day, most trivial while others are of major import. The alternative is being a passive meat sack.

 

[Sanguine camper]

Jones is a dynamic, game changing type of weapon. Few if any rb's in this league have his combination of burst and vision. He's the real deal, but will always be limited in his snaps due to his small size. His sample size is large enough to say that his ypc is no fluke. Since he needs to be limited in total touches, I like using Williams as a 3rd down back. He blocks well, and can get a yard when you need it. The Packers have other more pressing needs than to spend their valuable 1 through 4th round draft picks this year on a rb.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Since he needs to be limited in total touches, I like using Williams as a 3rd down back. He blocks well, and can get a yard when you need it.

There's no doubt Williams is the better blocker of the two running backs but he isn't perfect by any means either. He whiffed terribly on a play vs. the Jets.

 

[Poppa San]

There's no doubt Williams is the better blocker of the two running backs but he isn't perfect by any means either. He whiffed terribly on a play vs. the Jets.

Even John Kuhn, the gold standard in GB for several seasons. had an occasional whiff. I see Williams as that type of player eventually. Even lining up at FB more going forward.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Even John Kuhn, the gold standard in GB for several seasons. had an occasional whiff. I see Williams as that type of player eventually. Even lining up at FB more going forward.

There's no doubt about it and I definitely agree that Williams is a very good blocker but just wanted to point out that he has negative plays in that area as well.