A tidbit from...

[Lare]

Re: Three things...

tromadz:

three things:

1.) This is from an article by Pufall, I give proper credit at the top of post;

2.) It is Bull $hit to try and claim this is T.T. 1st season as a GM for multiple reasons:

~~~ he should get some credit for what looks like may turn out to be a decent 1st draft;

~~~ you want to give him credit for picking up Thomas -- which is cool -- but than he has to take responsibility for his misses too;

~~~ he decided to hold on to Hunt and pay the big roster bonus, he decided to hold on to Hunt until the last cut and ended up paying his full salary when he filed the grievance, those were Thompson decisions;

~~~ he decided to let both Guards go and not find adequate replacements -- and it has been demonstrated time and time again that signing Wahle (not both was not only possible but quite doable when you use the Cap dollar hit that he cost Carolina);

~~~ he is the man making the decisions and those decisions have weighed heavy on #4, and they will impact the decision he makes whether or not he plays for the Packers (it is up to each persons perception whether this is a good thing or a bad thing)

~~~ Ted Thompson made all of the roster decisions coming into and during the season -- including failing to get adequate replacements when players went down in the play making positions (see ~~~ above);

~~~ he squandered $6.4 million dollars on a Sherman extention. The Packers are nowhere near the richest franchise in NFL and don't have a Sugar Daddy to absorb this foolishness...

~~~ So in summary of #2 Ted Thompson has been on the job for 13 full months and deserves his share of credit and responsibility.

#3) You wrote "forget about green." Why the Hell would I or Ted Thompson forget about a 28 year old back who averaged more than 1400 yards over the previous 4 seasons -- before last season being thrown out with an inadequate offensive line minus two guards, a Center that could barely stand up and the starting TE not available and then going down to a season ending injury. Pufall is right, if reports that he is recovering well and he can be signed to reasonable incentive-laden contract he MAY be an incredible offseason signing . It is easy for a fan to forget that Green is a great check down back who always put up great receiving numbers to go with being a Pro Bowl runner each season, but a GM who forgets it is a fool.

Golly gee Bruce, would love to see your proof that;

The decision to keep Hunt was TT's alone.

The decision to let Wahle & Rivera go was his alone.

His decisions so far are affecting Brett's decision on coming back to play another year.

Would also love to see who else you think he should have brought in instead of who he did when injuries wreaked havoc with the team this last year.

And how else team play may have been affected had he not extended Sherman's contract, in effect letting everyone know he was a lame duck coach.


I'm not defending TT for his mistakes, and I think we all can agree he's made some over the last year. But I also think there were a lot of extenuating circumstances in the decisions he made and I suspect many of them were due to the recommendations of the coaches and assistants who were here at the time. And I haven't seen any proof yet that wasn't the case.

 

[arrowgargantuan]

relax you ******...lest ye be reprimanded with mean smiley faces like this one -----> :x

Careful arrow.....calling people ****** could get your hand slapped or could even get you banned by an overzealous moderator :wink:

don't worry about me man, i know the owner :lol:

 

[Zero2Cool]

Re: Three things...

The decision to let Wahle & Rivera go was his alone.

It sure was because he's the man who basically gave away nearly every million of our cap space. damn that seahawks vp of football operations how dare he screw the packers!!


give me a break ...

 

[Bruce]

Re: Three things...

tromadz:

three things:

1.) This is from an article by Pufall, I give proper credit at the top of post;

2.) It is Bull $hit to try and claim this is T.T. 1st season as a GM for multiple reasons:

~~~ he should get some credit for what looks like may turn out to be a decent 1st draft;

~~~ you want to give him credit for picking up Thomas -- which is cool -- but than he has to take responsibility for his misses too;

~~~ he decided to hold on to Hunt and pay the big roster bonus, he decided to hold on to Hunt until the last cut and ended up paying his full salary when he filed the grievance, those were Thompson decisions;

~~~ he decided to let both Guards go and not find adequate replacements -- and it has been demonstrated time and time again that signing Wahle (not both was not only possible but quite doable when you use the Cap dollar hit that he cost Carolina);

~~~ he is the man making the decisions and those decisions have weighed heavy on #4, and they will impact the decision he makes whether or not he plays for the Packers (it is up to each persons perception whether this is a good thing or a bad thing)

~~~ Ted Thompson made all of the roster decisions coming into and during the season -- including failing to get adequate replacements when players went down in the play making positions (see ~~~ above);

~~~ he squandered $6.4 million dollars on a Sherman extention. The Packers are nowhere near the richest franchise in NFL and don't have a Sugar Daddy to absorb this foolishness...

~~~ So in summary of #2 Ted Thompson has been on the job for 13 full months and deserves his share of credit and responsibility.

#3) You wrote "forget about green." Why the Hell would I or Ted Thompson forget about a 28 year old back who averaged more than 1400 yards over the previous 4 seasons -- before last season being thrown out with an inadequate offensive line minus two guards, a Center that could barely stand up and the starting TE not available and then going down to a season ending injury. Pufall is right, if reports that he is recovering well and he can be signed to reasonable incentive-laden contract he MAY be an incredible offseason signing . It is easy for a fan to forget that Green is a great check down back who always put up great receiving numbers to go with being a Pro Bowl runner each season, but a GM who forgets it is a fool.

Golly gee Bruce, would love to see your proof that;

The decision to keep Hunt was TT's alone.

The decision to let Wahle & Rivera go was his alone.

His decisions so far are affecting Brett's decision on coming back to play another year.

Would also love to see who else you think he should have brought in instead of who he did when injuries wreaked havoc with the team this last year.

And how else team play may have been affected had he not extended Sherman's contract, in effect letting everyone know he was a lame duck coach.


I'm not defending TT for his mistakes, and I think we all can agree he's made some over the last year. But I also think there were a lot of extenuating circumstances in the decisions he made and I suspect many of them were due to the recommendations of the coaches and assistants who were here at the time. And I haven't seen any proof yet that wasn't the case.

Ted Thompson and Harlan made it quite clear that the GM would have the power to and make all final decisions on roster and personel decisions from day one of his hire and have continued right through the most recent news conferences he has held on the hiring his new coaching staff.

I don't blame T.T. for wanting to see if Bate's could turn Hunt around -- but it was his decision and according to several sources inside 1265 Sherman had had it with Hunt after the 2004 season and was suggesting a June 1st cut. Thompson had the power and he made a mistake. GM's make mistakes, it is not the end of the world, but it is a Thompson mistake no matter how you slice or dice it.

Wahle has repeatedly said that he believed he would still be wearing Green and Gold if Sherman had remained the GM. That Sherman had repeatedly assured him that he would rework his contract -- Wahle also states that Thompson never expressed interest in retaining him. Is the HORSE'S MOUTH a good enough source for you?

As for this lame duck crap -- coach's contracts come up all the time. Do you think the players are stupid? Do you seriously think none of them had a clue that there were clear tensions and a possibility that Sherman would be let go? For Christsake the P.R. department followed-up Sherman's extension signing by saying that it did not mean he would be retained and put it out publically. Thompson is a lot of things, but stupid is not one of them.

This was not an attack on Ted Thompson. He is the GM of the Packers and for that reason I hope he is successful, I want him to succeed.

I am not calling for his head, nor am I denying that he deserves some time to develop his plan, but it is absurd to pretend that there is nothing to evaluate him on or that we should ignore the decisions he has made to date. He deserves credit and needs to take responsibility for his performance to date. That is all Pufall put forth and certainly all I have ever put forth.

No sarcasm intended, but why is it my job to prove that the GM who holds all of the power in football decisions is responsible for the moves and decisions he makes? Shouldn't the opposite be the standard ?-- if someone wants to hand out free passes and deny the right to analyse they should have to put up the proof as to why people should do so such a foolish thing.

 

[cheesey]

I agree with Phil.........grab the popcorn, and watch the "fight!" (He said it with a picture..........me, with words!)LOLOLOL!!! :lol:

The FACT is.........ALL GM's make good AND bad picks. Even Ron Wolf did. It's just some people would rather remember the BAD ones if they don't like a certain GM, and they remember the GOOD ones if they like him.
To me, TT hasn't been GM long enough for me to judge the outcome. I will be a Packer fan as long as i'm alive, and will back WHOEVER is on the team, as i have done for many years.

 

[tromadz]

Re: Three things...

I am not calling for his head, nor am I denying that he deserves some time to develop his plan, but it is absurd to pretend that there is nothing to evaluate him on or that we should ignore the decisions he has made to date. He deserves credit and needs to take responsibility for his performance to date. That is all Pufall put forth and certainly all I have ever put forth.

No sarcasm intended, but why is it my job to prove that the GM who holds all of the power in football decisions is responsible for the moves and decisions he makes? Shouldn't the opposite be the standard ?-- if someone wants to hand out free passes and deny the right to analyse they should have to put up the proof as to why people should do so such a foolish thing.

thats what i said, good and bad decisions. i also said 2005 is nothing compared to the impact his decisions now will have. i can only say it so many times.

and TT had final say on lineups? So he was the coach? Excuse me if I dont believe that one(without proof).

 

[DePack]

Bruce...you made your point and anyone with half a brain can see that you are right. Give it up though. The guy you are arguing with is never wrong...especially when it comes to TT. Quit banging your head against the wall. It only leads to headaches!

 

[4packgirl]

:wall: :crazy: :whippin: :rotflmao: als:

 

[IPBprez]

:wall: :crazy: :whippin: :rotflmao: als:

DITTO - that was a lot of posting for such minor point trivialization....

In "some" people's minds - this really will be Ted Thompson's first SOLO draft - now that GM Spectacular, Mike Sherman, is now gone and totally away from the process in any way, back at Lambeau. THAT's what I got from TROMADZ's posting.

I would also remind everyone - that while the initial claim may have had some merit - and TT has (at one time) stated he "prefers" the Draft, over Free Agency.... I already posted an article which admitted to last year's processing by TT - remember the article that showed TT was looking at, and discussing options with.. 7 different Free Agents.... remember that? Trouble was - Mike Sherman - one can illuminate all day long, as to what the real Mike Sherman reasoning was... it could be Lame Duck Coach, or possibly something else (discussed underground amongst the Players).... who knows....

But - TT is nowhere near being "afraid" of the Free Agency scene....
(And, remember, thanks to MS - we were basically broke last year, as well)
It will be something to take into account when discussing TT's tactics, especially this year.

Otherwise, as usual -- great post by BRUCE - good read.

 

[DePack]

IPB......If TT's excuse is having a lame duck coach, then he would have known that during free agency. If he knew Sherman was a lame duck coach during free agency, why did he extend his contract 2 years? It doesn't add up.

I agree with Bruce....last year was TT's first season. He needs to be held accountable or given credit, depending on the move. When all is said and done, moves he made last year will be affecting this team for years to come. Hopefully in the positive!

If Favre comes back will that again give TT a free pass? "TT couldn't make the moves to help this team in the future because he had to appease Favre"?

 

[IPBprez]

I was posting situations - not stating outright facts -- sorta pushin' the envelope with all of a sudden.. implying that's what I was doing.

I see you avoided what I posted in ( ) - singling out something (one thing only) out of an entire post shows an agenda... If you've got something to say - spit it out.

==============================

What I personally think is the real reasonings for many Players avoiding Green Bay - is what it used to be pre-Reggie White ---

A) - Players simply don't want to come to Green Bay because there's nothing to do there... unless it's football related. There's no beach bikinis and/or a whole hootful of college babes hanging around everywhere - no offense to UW-GB, either - I've met a couple of the previous Cheerleaders from there.

B) - I also tend to think that in an underground sense - Mike McKenzie got the word out Mike Sherman and his coaching ways, ....his version that is... and Players are paying attention to some of those other details... which, for good or ill, the Press has always avoided in print.

Call it a collaboration of the two scenarios.

When it really comes down to it - I don't think Players give a hoot whether a Coach is Lame-duck or not - they know that their $$$$ is based on their performance and stats - Sure, winning helps a great deal. Just the same, it's those stats that make the mark.

=========================

Oh, and I have a right to my opinion - that's what this Forum is about --- finding fault, as it were with others who post here... doesn't automatically give your opinion the sole weight in a conversation., DePack. From what I've seen, you're only right about 50% of the time, anyway! A lot of your diatribe is centered on blowing everyone away from posting comment period. Several others from the old Forum like to play that game - and the color on this Forum is starting to change.... I am beginning to see a lot of the originals not posting nearly as much as they used to do - we're getting down to about 20 posters out of about how many Members?

I damn sure don't care if you disagree - that's fine. Go somewhere else to denigrate a Poster..... If your argument is better WITH FACTS... then so be it... slammin' someone for the sake of it.. slanders this Forum and drives people away!

JMHO!

 

[tromadz]

good point, prez.

but GB has rich history...and..fat women. Some guys like fat women. Lets go after those guys in FA. Maybe Chris Hope is a chubby chaser

 

[DePack]

IPB....don't take things so personally. Reread my post. I wasn't bashing you....just pointing out the lame duck issue. You obviously have a problem with me. What agenda are you talking about? If you are accusing me of bashing TT go back and reread my post again.

This is a forum. I understand you run a fan club but your opinions are not off limits to questions. Now please...tell me what my agenda was on the first post.

 

[IPBprez]

Well - first off - let's leave the CLUB out of it.... I don't go around bragging about it, as a first line of conversation when I'm discussing the Packers... quite often, people find out after I've left the Bar, etc., what my part time job is.... It's my girlfriend I gotta clam up about it all.... I've found that if I leave that off the table... what I do for the Club comes around in a better way, after all.

IPB......If TT's excuse is having a lame duck coach, then he would have known that during free agency. If he knew Sherman was a lame duck coach during free agency, why did he extend his contract 2 years? It doesn't add up.

Exactly when was it that TT "knew" he was going to give Sherman that contract extension? I coulda swore it was AFTER the FA period, by several weeks - weren't we already into the Draft month?

I guess I just have a different take on the situation. I don't know TT, personally... so I won't go out and state what he was about to do, as if I was in the room beforehand.

Many people, on several Forums have taken to saying that TT hates the Free Agency thing - I tend to disagree. I think Ted Thompson is "a highly intelligent football guy" who certainly does his homework, as opposed to taking a different team's mgmt personnel's word for a Player..... which is exactly what happened with the Packers getting Ferguson. It was a grab that didnt work out..... And, like many have re-iterated here... Chambers was no auto-lock for the ProBowl either.... If I had my druthers... I'd say Chambers had a bit of the luck this last year, that Hassselbeck has had with Jim Zorn.. Who was the Coach at Miami for Chambers....? Anyone?

Here's the thing -- TT may prefer the Draft - but so do a distinct majority of the GM's throughout the League - it's automatically cheaper and like reported in an article about the Steelers in the Playoffs - it's a great way to mold a Player, or Players so they become what the GM's vision of his Team should be --- a SuperBowl champ.

I'd have to go back on some of the Articles I've posted on our IPB site's message board - to find the ones this thread's Topic reminds me of... (my neck itches - meaning my ESP is going off radar...) I know Cliff Christl, on JSonline and one of the almost mainstream writers for PackersNews (not Havel - even though he may have spoke of it, I'm thinking of someone else), as well... wrote articles about the lame-duck issue.... NOW, after time has slipped passed us (bad grammar?) - we can see things a little bit different.

I know one thing - it seemed to take awhile before that report on TT's efforts to work the FA market, last year, came out - got any clue as to why that was?

 

[DePack]

You're preaching to the choir with me, my man. I never said TT doesn't like free agency. In fact, I like what I have read about his free agency approach. Take care of the ones in-house that you know about. It's easier not to make a mistake.