226th Overall - Ty Summers - LB/TCU

[Favre>Rodgers259]

There were definitely a lot of Packers fans expecting way too much out of Burks during his rookie season.

Do you think that was unfounded?

Honestly my expectations were all over the place for Burks, but I expect all Day 2 picks (outside of maybe QBs) to have some type of impact off rip at their respective positions. I get it he got hurt, but the little we saw was uninspiring.

For instance, take Sternberger (who needs to stop being a d!ck and sign his contract). I get TEs take a while to develop, bu there's no reason why he shouldn't snag 20-35 receptions for 225-375 yds and 4 TDs. Not world beater by any means, but a harbinger of what is to come.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Do you think that was unfounded?

Honestly my expectations were all over the place for Burks, but I expect all Day 2 picks (outside of maybe QBs) to have some type of impact off rip at their respective positions. I get it he got hurt, but the little we saw was uninspiring.

For instance, take Sternberger (who needs to stop being a d!ck and sign his contract). I get TEs take a while to develop, bu there's no reason why he shouldn't snag 20-35 receptions for 225-375 yds and 4 TDs. Not world beater by any means, but a harbinger of what is to come.

Burks was drafted as a project, not as an immediate starter. Jake Ryan's injury pushed the time frame up on what the Packers needed out of Burks. Oren's own injury didn't help him either. The Packers traded for Antonio Morrison immediately after Burks injury, but he didn't turn out to be that good.

Burks played really well on special teams, I expect an improvement from him in his 2nd year on defense. The day fans start expecting too much out of Rookies, especially 3rd rounders, is the day those fans start setting themselves up to be disappointed.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I don't see why expectations can't be high(albeit somewhat tapered) for a 3rd Rounder, gems can be found across all 7 Rounds. I never said I expected him to be a world beater, but you hope for some kind of promise or potential. I get he looked good on special teams, but I'm not looking for outstanding special teams play from a 3rd Round pick, unless he's a returner.

 

[OldSchool101]

I don't see why expectations can't be high(albeit somewhat tapered) for a 3rd Rounder, gems can be found across all 7 Rounds. I never said I expected him to be a world beater, but you hope for some kind of promise or potential. I get he looked good on special teams, but I'm not looking for outstanding special teams play from a 3rd Round pick, unless he's a returner.

It’s more the position for me. I would have a bigger expectation for a 3rd round RB as an example.
Also experience level. Say a 2nd day WR who started 3-4 years in college with stellar production is expected to turn the corner a little faster.

If Sternberger had converted positions his Senior year, I sure wouldn’t expect him to be a starter year 1 even without the dislocation. If that scenario happened and he was relegated to ST and then led the unit in tackles later his rookie season? I’d be pretty proud of him in that scenario. btw Sternberger was drafted ahead of Burks too.

That’s what I was offering earlier. We moved into the back of round 3 to get Burks at LB. He only had 1 year dedicated at the position in college and fans expect him to be a stellar coverage LB in the pros with most of 1 offseason of work and a dislocated shoulder during preseason to overlap it. I wouldn’t expect that player to perform substantive at a starter level for a year or two even if fully healthy. We haven’t even had a scrimmage and people are writing him off already. Maybe he flops maybe he doesn’t, but this is far too premature to write off Burks IMO.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To be fair I think some of that was hoping for the production or promise of production like Blake gave somewhat quickly to the Packers. I thought Burks would be much better than he has been...key is has, hoping that changes like everyone else.

Martinez was a way better player coming out of college than Burks. In addition him getting injured early didn't help matters.

Do you think that was unfounded?

Honestly my expectations were all over the place for Burks, but I expect all Day 2 picks (outside of maybe QBs) to have some type of impact off rip at their respective positions. I get it he got hurt, but the little we saw was uninspiring.

In my opinion fans expecting Burks to make an impact in his first season wasn't realistic as the Packers completely reached for him.

We haven’t even had a scrimmage and people are writing him off already. Maybe he flops maybe he doesn’t, but this is far too premature to write off Burks IMO.

It's definitely too early to write Burks off but his rookie season didn't inspire any confidence in him living up to expectations.

 

[tynimiller]

Yes BUT Martinez was a 4th rounder and Burks was a 3rd. On the surface Blake's ability to perform quicker made a lot people assume Burks would as well. Now granted those who were knowledgeable of Blake knew full well the kid had serious chops coming in far ahead of Burks.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yes BUT Martinez was a 4th rounder and Burks was a 3rd. On the surface Blake's ability to perform quicker made a lot people assume Burks would as well. Now granted those who were knowledgeable of Blake knew full well the kid had serious chops coming in far ahead of Burks.

That's why I mentioned the Packers completely reached for Burks.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

In my opinion fans expecting Burks to make an impact in his first season wasn't realistic as the Packers completely reached for him.

It's definitely too early to write Burks off but his rookie season didn't inspire any confidence in him living up to expectations.

I agree it was definitely a reach, Burks wasn't even on my radar until perhaps deep into Day 3. But like so many others have said before, we don't get paid to do this stuff. So as a 3rd Round Pick, my expectations were elevated as I believed in Gute. I'm not necessarily writing Burks off, but at the same time with or without Ryan, don't call me crazy for speculating that Gute might be trying to turn his lemons into lemonade by drafting Summers, and signing Bolton, Crump, and Ramsey.

 

[gopkrs]

I watched every game and really, I have no idea how Burks will do this year. I think he has a strong lower body, is fast and can rush the passer in a blitz. So am anxious to see what he can do. I think a lot will depend on his ability to cover. If he does well; well then it wasn't a reach. Morrison did OK and we just let him go so...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

So as a 3rd Round Pick, my expectations were elevated as I believed in Gute. I'm not necessarily writing Burks off, but at the same time with or without Ryan, don't call me crazy for speculating that Gute might be trying to turn his lemons into lemonade by drafting Summers, and signing Bolton, Crump, and Ramsey.

There's definitely no reason to write off Burks after only one season but as I've mentioned repeatedly I'm not convinced he will ever live up to his draft status.

In my opinion it's unrealistic to expect either Summers pr any of the undrafted rookies to have a bigger impact than him though.

FYI the Packers didn't sign Crump after rookie camp.

Morrison did OK and we just let him go so...

Morrison was average at best. Burks, as a third round pick, should definitely be expected to be an upgrade over him.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

In my opinion it's unrealistic to expect either Summers or any of the undrafted rookies to have a bigger impact than him though.

Actually, when you look at it Summers is primed to at least take snaps away from Burks if necessary. Here's a quick comparison:

Burks - 6'3 233lbs
Summers - 6'1 241lbs

Burks - 4.59 40
Summers - 4.51 40

Burks - 4.15 shuttle
Summers - 4.12 shuttle (Pro Day)

Burks - 6.82 3cone
Summers - 6.84 3cone (Pro Day)

Burks - 18 reps
Summers - 27 reps

Burks - 39.5 vert
Summers - 36

Burks - 131 broad
Summers - 123

So very similar athletes but Summers has what Burks lacks, experience at the LB position. And when I mean experience, I mean 47 games that resulted in 317 tackles.

Again call me crazy, and I'm not too sure on Summers Football IQ, (Burks scored a 24 on the Wonderlic, Summers didn't take it). But we could see something "Blake Martinez like" from Summers that due to his extensive experience he catches on quick. If he's a great teammate,(and I've heard nothing but good stuff about him down at TCU) Burks might get better BECAUSE of Summers.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Actually, when you look at it Summers is primed to at least take snaps away from Burks if necessary. Here's a quick comparison:

Burks - 6'3 233lbs
Summers - 6'1 241lbs

Burks - 4.59 40
Summers - 4.51 40

Burks - 4.15 shuttle
Summers - 4.12 shuttle (Pro Day)

Burks - 6.82 3cone
Summers - 6.84 3cone (Pro Day)

Burks - 18 reps
Summers - 27 reps

Burks - 39.5 vert
Summers - 36

Burks - 131 broad
Summers - 123

So very similar athletes but Summers has what Burks lacks, experience at the LB position. And when I mean experience, I mean 47 games that resulted in 317 tackles.

Again call me crazy, and I'm not too sure on Summers Football IQ, (Burks scored a 24 on the Wonderlic, Summers didn't take it). But we could see something "Blake Martinez like" from Summers that due to his extensive experience he catches on quick. If he's a great teammate,(and I've heard nothing but good stuff about him down at TCU) Burks might get better BECAUSE of Summers.

Summers is definitely a good athlete as well but I'm not sure he is a better football player than Burks. There's a reason he dropped to the seventh round.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I'm guessing it has to do with his ability in pass coverage. I haven't seen much of him defending the pass, so I'd have to see how he does in the preseason or read training camp updates to get a better picture. It's surprising given both Burks and Summers are converted Safeties, granted Summers made his conversion as a Freshman at TCU.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm guessing it has to do with his ability in pass coverage. I haven't seen much of him defending the pass, so I'd have to see how he does in the preseason or read training camp updates to get a better picture. It's surprising given both Burks and Summers are converted Safeties, granted Summers made his conversion as a Freshman at TCU.

According to PFF Summers had his best season in 2017 and regressed last year. That might be the reason he dropped that far.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Even if he did regress, NFL.com gave him a 5th Round Grade, but when it comes to Day 3 picks, 5th-7th is all a crapshoot. Had he improved from 2017 he may have crept into 3rd-5th Round territory.

 

[gopkrs]

I saw a couple of coverage plays on Summers. And though he was close to the receiver; he had no idea where the ball was.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I saw a couple of coverage plays on Summers. And though he was close to the receiver; he had no idea where the ball was.

I just watched some plays as well, and I'll probably watch the Oklahoma and Texas games to get a better idea, but I don't expect any LBs drafted Day 3 to keep up with WRs period. He looked fine in zone coverage, and RBs seemed to be no problem as well. He could definitely stand to get a touch faster in his processing, and he doesn't have sideline to sideline abilities. He tackles just like Martinez, he doesn't explode through the ball carrier he just kind of pulls em down. But he doesn't seem to miss any tackles either. I also liked that he doesn't mess around with linemen, he finds clean angles to the ball at a very good rate, which you had to light 300 candles, sing a chant, and pray to get Nick Perry to do.

Personal Rant - He needs to ditch the neck roll and get smaller pads. I've seen many an ILB try to play with that god awful/faddish look. This is not the 80s and you are not Mike Singletary. LBs with those high pads always seem a little stiff to me. Hopefully the equipment staff will make some changes.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Burks and Summers are converted Safeties, granted Summers made his conversion as a Freshman at TCU.

I thought I read that Summers was actually a QB until he came to TCU and then he played LB and DE on occasion. Nonetheless, he is an ILB now and from what coaches and scouts say, he has a high Football IQ and a love of the game. He may turn out to be nothing, but I think he will be a big specials teams guy and maybe year 2 or 3, get some decent looks at ILB.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I thought I read that Summers was actually a QB until he came to TCU and then he played LB and DE on occasion. Nonetheless, he is an ILB now and from what coaches and scouts say, he has a high Football IQ and a love of the game. He may turn out to be nothing, but I think he will be a big specials teams guy and maybe year 2 or 3, get some decent looks at ILB.

From what I understand of my research of him he was a dual threat athlete as a QB but also played Safety in high school. Once he got to TCU he converted to LB from S and made 2nd Team All Big-12 as a Freshman.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

From what I understand of my research of him he was a dual threat athlete as a QB but also played Safety in high school. Once he got to TCU he converted to LB from S and made 2nd Team All Big-12 as a Freshman.

Thanks, I missed the S part in high school. At least we found our emergency QB!

Maybe Gute found our Taysom Hill!

 

[wist43]

Saw a write up from OTA's saying they were working with Burks on his "eyes and angles".

It's good that the coaching staff recognizes that he is woefully deficient in those areas, but those are things that I would file under instincts.

It's tough to teach instincts. Burks has such a poor feel for the game I'm not sure they'll ever be able to coach him through it.

I like Summers a lot better.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

It's good that the coaching staff recognizes that he is woefully deficient in those areas, but those are things that I would file under instincts.

It's tough to teach instincts. Burks has such a poor feel for the game I'm not sure they'll ever be able to coach him through it.

I like Summers a lot better.

Precisely why I said Burks may get better with Summers there. Sometimes it's a player who received coaching elsewhere in his career that can reach another. Not saying the Packers coaching staff isn't up to the task but getting to the football is literally Summers' best trait. Every down he spends very little time playing patsy with the o-line. Burks could definitely stand to learn from him.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

So I just finished watching the Oklahoma game....

Sooners OL dominated TCU pretty much all day, so I think that heightened Summers' biggest flaw which appears to be mental processing/reads. Once Summers knows where to go he's on it. But his play is hesitant while still reading.

Summers never came off the field, so I'm not sure why scouting reports said he came off during passing downs. He covered WRs and RBs. If he was covering a RB he pretty much took him out of the play. Kyler Murray only attempted a pass in his direction but once, and that RB got creamed for an incompletion by Summers and another LB. For coverage on WRs Summers was never step for step but for the NFL, they would be considered open. However in college, even with the #1 Overall Pick throwing the ball, it would be discouraged throwing in such a window.


In an odd scheme or sub-package front where Summers is playing ILB alongside Martinez, I would definitely assign Summers the cover job. In the NFL I doubt Pettine will ever ask him to cover a WR, outside of the defense getting stuck in a hurry-up tempo where it's hard to make a substitution. OR make him the designated pass rusher until he can get his processing hopefully up to par. He plays SOOOO much faster when he doesn't have to make too many reads. He was a defensive captain for TCU so maybe taking away that added responsibility frees up his brain so that he can just play.

I might watch the Oklahoma State, Kansas, or California games where the teams are a little bit more even. Sooners just basically did chunk plays all game. The TCU defense was essentially powerless despite making stops here and there, plus TCU has a QB problem(of which I was unaware) so Summers and the defense hardly got any rest either.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Precisely why I said Burks may get better with Summers there. Sometimes it's a player who received coaching elsewhere in his career that can reach another. Not saying the Packers coaching staff isn't up to the task but getting to the football is literally Summers' best trait. Every down he spends very little time playing patsy with the o-line. Burks could definitely stand to learn from him.

While watching a future Hall of Famer might tremendously help a young player I highly doubt that Burks having Summers around will have a positive impact on his development.