2024 Salary Cap as related to Free Agency

[OldSchool101]

I reckon that's the flip side of being the youngest team in the league since 1992. And one more reason we really, really need to bring in a good free agent or two this year. Veteran leadership is one problem you can not possibly fix in the draft. Time to bring a couple of big brothers into the family to take the kids under their wings.



One way to look at it (IMO) is our safety problem is actually two problems - we don't have a strong safety capable of shutting down the run, and we don't have a coverage safety to control the passing game. These actually are two similar but separate problems, and they both have to be solved separately. Can't be solved with just one player; we need two.

As a lot of us have said, there are a number of ways to solve these problems. It seems like the most likely approach would be to get one of the safeties in free agency, and the other in the draft. This is such a weak safety class that it seems like we'd be taking a huge risk relying on the draft for both of them. I don't know; there are so many possible ways for it to work out, there's hardly any point in discussing every single one... but it does seem like Chinn would be a very good solution to the "strong safety" half of the problem.

Over the last couple of days, I've dropped in on several Panther message boards and asked their fans about Chinn. 2 or 3 guys warned that he's a tweener, hybrid between safety and linebacker, and has to be used just right to get the most out of him... but the vast majority of fans (well over 90%) have nothing but good things to say about him. The consensus is that when their staff used him properly, he was a pro bowl caliber player, but when you ask him to cover like a corner he's barely average - if that. They say he's an incredible athlete (which Gute loves), very good ball skills, and an absolute thumper in the box. Just can not cover wideouts.

They love him, wish the team knew how to use them, and wish him well, but they're glad he may get a chance with a better team. Lot of them say they hope he winds up with Green Bay so he can get a ring or two. Seems to me you can't ask for better references than that. Might be a steal for a $3-4 million "prove it" deal. I'm excited about the guy.

I do remember him more from a few seasons back. He was playing lights out then.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I reckon that's the flip side of being the youngest team in the league since 1992. And one more reason we really, really need to bring in a good free agent or two this year. Veteran leadership is one problem you can not possibly fix in the draft. Time to bring a couple of big brothers into the family to take the kids under their wings.



One way to look at it (IMO) is our safety problem is actually two problems - we don't have a strong safety capable of shutting down the run, and we don't have a coverage safety to control the passing game. These actually are two similar but separate problems, and they both have to be solved separately. Can't be solved with just one player; we need two.

As a lot of us have said, there are a number of ways to solve these problems. It seems like the most likely approach would be to get one of the safeties in free agency, and the other in the draft. This is such a weak safety class that it seems like we'd be taking a huge risk relying on the draft for both of them. I don't know; there are so many possible ways for it to work out, there's hardly any point in discussing every single one... but it does seem like Chinn would be a very good solution to the "strong safety" half of the problem.

Over the last couple of days, I've dropped in on several Panther message boards and asked their fans about Chinn. 2 or 3 guys warned that he's a tweener, hybrid between safety and linebacker, and has to be used just right to get the most out of him... but the vast majority of fans (well over 90%) have nothing but good things to say about him. The consensus is that when their staff used him properly, he was a pro bowl caliber player, but when you ask him to cover like a corner he's barely average - if that. They say he's an incredible athlete (which Gute loves), very good ball skills, and an absolute thumper in the box. Just can not cover wideouts.

They love him, wish the team knew how to use them, and wish him well, but they're glad he may get a chance with a better team. Lot of them say they hope he winds up with Green Bay so he can get a ring or two. Seems to me you can't ask for better references than that. Might be a steal for a $3-4 million "prove it" deal. I'm excited about the guy.

Good post and I agree, the Packers no doubt will be looking for a SS and a FS, that both have the ability to start and play above average. The more I look at the FA class of Safeties, the more I like the chances of doing that in Free Agency. I also don't think they will have to crash their cap in doing it, new contracts can be set up to be very cap friendly in the first 2 years. With Winfield and Dugger getting 2 different tags (Franchise and Transitional), the high end of the market has now kind of been set. Thankfully, the supply of quality Safeties is big, so that might bring the price down. They might even consider signing a guy like Micah Hyde for experience, depth and veteran leadership.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here's the list of top free agent safeties, sorted by current PFF ranking:

Kamren Curl, Commanders

Xavier McKinney, Giants

Geno Stone, Ravens

Julian Blackmon, Colts

Jordan Fuller, Rams

Jordan Whitehead, Jets

C.J. Gardner-Johnson, Lions

DeShon Elliott, Dolphins

Tashaun Gipson, 49ers

Alohi Gilman, Chargers

Mike Edwards, Chiefs

Jeremy Chinn, Panthers

Micah Hyde, Bills

Jayron Kearse, Cowboys

Brandon Jones, Dolphins

Taylor Rapp, Bills

Kevin Byard, Eagles (released)

Eddie Jackson, Bears (released)

John Johnson III, Rams

 

[Thirteen Below]

Here's the list of top free agent safeties, sorted by current PFF ranking:

Kamren Curl, Commanders

Xavier McKinney, Giants

Geno Stone, Ravens

Julian Blackmon, Colts

Jordan Fuller, Rams

Jordan Whitehead, Jets

C.J. Gardner-Johnson, Lions

DeShon Elliott, Dolphins

Tashaun Gipson, 49ers

Alohi Gilman, Chargers

Mike Edwards, Chiefs

Jeremy Chinn, Panthers

Micah Hyde, Bills

Jayron Kearse, Cowboys

Brandon Jones, Dolphins

Taylor Rapp, Bills

Kevin Byard, Eagles (released)

Eddie Jackson, Bears (released)

John Johnson III, Rams

Is that list available anywhere for non-PFF subscribers? I'd love to see those ratings. I'm a little surprised to see Curl rated so high!

How come Winfield isn't on it?

 

[OldSchool101]

Is that list available anywhere for non-PFF subscribers? I'd love to see those ratings. I'm a little surprised to see Curl rated so high!

How come Winfield isn't on it?

The Bucs tagged him (yesterday?)

 

[Thirteen Below]

The Bucs tagged him (yesterday?)

I guess for some reason I was thinking he was still technically a free agent until he's actually signed, but yeah.... probably not. There are so many quirks about the rules regarding free agency, franchise tags, transition tags, exclusive tags, etc.

 

[mradtke66]

It wouldn't surprise me if they try to work out something with Savage. He tended to play better in the box under Barry and was at worst decent at FS under Pettine.

If Hafley thinks he could fix him and be his FS, cool. If he thinks he'd be a good SS that could survive at deep safety when he wants to play 2-deep, also cool.

 

[OldSchool101]

I guess for some reason I was thinking he was still technically a free agent until he's actually signed, but yeah.... probably not. There are so many quirks about the rules regarding free agency, franchise tags, transition tags, exclusive tags, etc.

Yeah. Could still be a Tag and Trade candidate. I don’t know their Cap$ situation but that’s happened before

 

[OldSchool101]

It wouldn't surprise me if they try to work out something with Savage. He tended to play better in the box under Barry and was at worst decent at FS under Pettine.

If Hafley thinks he could fix him and be his FS, cool. If he thinks he'd be a good SS that could survive at deep safety when he wants to play 2-deep, also cool.

I kinda feel the same thing about Campbell. Recently Gutey verbalized his desire to keep him in GB. The highest probability is a contract rework. We only save like $3Mil cutting Campbell. Really but even that because you’ve got to pay his replacement. My gut tells me after that emotional rollercoaster we’re on good terms. He truly might’ve been pressured to play injured which would explain his decline.

One way to look at it is not so much can we invest more to improve, but also is which position areas can we patch and maybe improve depth with a Draft pick there. If we can shave a couple million off the Cap? I think we see a rework (this is my guess). While some might see that as dumb, it does add a benefit of being able to focus on the areas of most needed improvement. Also having a veteran presence does account for something.
Go after someone to bolster that position in FA. Also LB is a position you can often get early production inside of that top 100 draft prospects.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here's the list of top free agent safeties, sorted by current PFF ranking:

Kamren Curl, Commanders

Xavier McKinney, Giants

Geno Stone, Ravens

Julian Blackmon, Colts

Jordan Fuller, Rams

Jordan Whitehead, Jets

C.J. Gardner-Johnson, Lions

DeShon Elliott, Dolphins

Tashaun Gipson, 49ers

Alohi Gilman, Chargers

Mike Edwards, Chiefs

Jeremy Chinn, Panthers

Micah Hyde, Bills

Jayron Kearse, Cowboys

Brandon Jones, Dolphins

Taylor Rapp, Bills

Kevin Byard, Eagles (released)

Eddie Jackson, Bears (released)

John Johnson III, Rams

I don't have access to PFF either. That was from the article below:

For Packers, free agent class looks rich at safety position

The Packers will have no shortage of options when it comes to signing a veteran safety in free agency.

packerswire.usatoday.com

 

[OldSchool101]

Here’s another one for Gutey to Tamper with. Strong ties to Hafley

Loading…

www.si.com

 

[PikeBadger]

Here's the list of top free agent safeties, sorted by current PFF ranking:

Kamren Curl, Commanders

Xavier McKinney, Giants

Geno Stone, Ravens

Julian Blackmon, Colts

Jordan Fuller, Rams

Jordan Whitehead, Jets

C.J. Gardner-Johnson, Lions

DeShon Elliott, Dolphins

Tashaun Gipson, 49ers

Alohi Gilman, Chargers

Mike Edwards, Chiefs

Jeremy Chinn, Panthers

Micah Hyde, Bills

Jayron Kearse, Cowboys

Brandon Jones, Dolphins

Taylor Rapp, Bills

Kevin Byard, Eagles (released)

Eddie Jackson, Bears (released)

John Johnson III, Rams

You can add 5 more to the list. Seattle dumped both of their starters and Buffalo cut loose 3 safeties this morning

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You can add 5 more to the list. Seattle dumped both of their starters and Buffalo cut loose 3 safeties this morning

I have to wonder. With all these starting level Safeties becoming free agents, will there also be a lot of teams wanting to sign them, thus a lot of competition for those viewed as the top 5?

 

[OldSchool101]

I have to wonder. With all these starting level Safeties becoming free agents, will there also be a lot of teams wanting to sign them, thus a lot of competition for those viewed as the top 5?

activity breeds activity.

Although, imo those at the top won’t be affected much. It definitely hurts the mid-low tier Safeties looking for a job

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

activity breeds activity.

Although, imo those at the top won’t be affected much. It definitely hurts the mid-low tier Safeties looking for a job

Yes and the reason many of the top safeties are available is the cap. Seems like more teams are still feeling that CovidCap hit, when teams did a lot of contract restructuring to retain talent and get under a lower than expected cap.

Packers are still sitting on a few dud contracts (Bahk, Campbell) but have pretty quickly gotten much healthier cap wise. Depending on how they structure a Love deal and maybe one for Clark, this young team could be very cap viable for awhile starting next season.

 

[OldSchool101]

There’s some fantastic players who might move from their current team. Even the ones that are tagged are not immune to being traded for Cap purposes and possible draft capital.
One method is using a draft pick as a carrot to poach a significant FA player from elsewhere. Even if we parted with a #58 or a #88 in a “Deebo type” move (illustration only) We’ve still got 4 additional draft picks in Day1/Day2. It’s something we don’t see very often, but getting a player on the caliber of a Burns or a Sneed could be a huge catalyst for our D. I’m pretty sure we just need 1-2 upgrades and some depth at O. Our D only needs 1 more jump into that top 8 area and we’d be very formidable.

 

[OldSchool101]

Deal by deal these FA contracts all look doable to an extent. However the sum of them is well over cap. Hard decisions to make this week because these are good men. These incumbents are our men that we chose over hundreds of choices at their position and then carefully molded over thousands of days.

There really should be some type of small benefit teams get to retain their own drafted players. Let’s at least emphasize keeping them home unless it’s a huge disparity in compensation. I think the NFL forgets about the importance of family (keeping kids and spouses in a consistent environment and emphasizing community) in its search for expansion. They do promote community, but the most obvious benefit to a family is … our own family first

 

[PikeBadger]

And the really good news is that there are more cuts coming throughout the league after the draft. We're still 5 months away from training camp.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'll add more "good news", although I alluded to it in a previous post. The Packers are a very young team, with what appears to be a lot of talent. I just look at the QB and receivers (TE's and WR's) and grin. That is going to be one dangerous group in the very near future. The big picture of this young group is how it effects the cap. While I haven't added up the salaries, I would wager to guess that our entire receiving room is costing the Packers less than Bahk. So in the next 2-3 years, that should free up more cap space for other players to either be resigned or signed as FA's.

 

[Thirteen Below]

There’s some fantastic players who might move from their current team. Even the ones that are tagged are not immune to being traded for Cap purposes and possible draft capital.
One method is using a draft pick as a carrot to poach a significant FA player from elsewhere. Even if we parted with a #58 or a #88 in a “Deebo type” move (illustration only) We’ve still got 4 additional draft picks in Day1/Day2. It’s something we don’t see very often, but getting a player on the caliber of a Burns or a Sneed could be a huge catalyst for our D. I’m pretty sure we just need 1-2 upgrades and some depth at O. Our D only needs 1 more jump into that top 8 area and we’d be very formidable.

You raise a point I hardly ever see anyone mention here, probably because we've all become conditioned to living in a world where Green Bay just.... well.... doesn't do **** like that. We draft, we develop, we accumulate draft picks by earning comp picks and then using those comp picks to draft more players to develop and trade for more draft pciks, etc, over and over and over again.

And that's just what Green Bay does. We just bore the hell out of the entire planet with our methodical, plodding, predictable, classically German approach, always doing things the cautious, prudent, responsible way. It becomes very easy for us to forget that, ya know, you can trade draft picks for players. It's OK; it really is a thing. It's been done. It's right there in the rules, you're allowed to do that.

Or, you can trade players for players... or players and draft picks for players. Or players and draft picks for other draft picks. Or whatever the hell else we want to trade for.

But we have never lived in that world. It's a way of team-building that has never been a part of our organizational culture, and in many ways I can understand how we got to this point and why we have stayed stuck there. Gutekunst has had to start from scratch, and he carefully built a playoff team in just 3 years by making every draft pick count.

But right now, at this moment of our organizational arc, we have the latitude to take some risks and spend some of draft capital. Maybe now, we finally start to find out what kind of GM he's really wanted to be all along.

 

[Thirteen Below]

The big picture of this young group is how it effects the cap. While I haven't added up the salaries, I would wager to guess that our entire receiving room is costing the Packers less than Bahk. So in the next 2-3 years, that should free up more cap space for other players to either be resigned or signed as FA's.

Good bet. I just added it up, and every single receiver (including tight ends, right down to Ben Sims) add up to about $15M. With Bakhtiari off the books next year, we're going to have some money to get a few free agents and front load some of the WRs.

Trouble is, Alexander and Gary each carry a $25M cap hit in 25, and Clark and Smith each cost about $17.5. Plus whatever we're paying Love by that point. So, easy come, easy go.

 

[OldSchool101]

You raise a point I hardly ever see anyone mention here, probably because we've all become conditioned to living in a world where Green Bay just.... well.... doesn't do **** like that. We draft, we develop, we accumulate draft picks by earning comp picks and then using those comp picks to draft more players to develop and trade for more draft pciks, etc, over and over and over again.

And that's just what Green Bay does. We just bore the hell out of the entire planet with our methodical, plodding, predictable, classically German approach, always doing things the cautious, prudent, responsible way. It becomes very easy for us to forget that, ya know, you can trade draft picks for players. It's OK; it really is a thing. It's been done. It's right there in the rules, you're allowed to do that.

Or, you can trade players for players... or players and draft picks for players. Or players and draft picks for other draft picks. Or whatever the hell else we want to trade for.

But we have never lived in that world. It's a way of team-building that has never been a part of our organizational culture, and in many ways I can understand how we got to this point and why we have stayed stuck there. Gutekunst has had to start from scratch, and he carefully built a playoff team in just 3 years by making every draft pick count.

But right now, at this moment of our organizational arc, we have the latitude to take some risks and spend some of draft capital. Maybe now, we finally start to find out what kind of GM he's really wanted to be all along.

There’s nothing wrong with that approach (in general) as far as I’m concerned. Although on a build up to a SuperBowl Run there’s going to have to be a balanced approach to acquiring players not only based on ceiling.. but also based on floor. Naturally if you feel your team is 1-2 players away on each squad from a Championship? You balance more experienced and emphasize players who possess leadership qualities.

I think we all know HISTORY repeats itself so that can be helpful to use what’s worked in the past. I am NOT implying the Packers have done anything wrong. What I’m getting at is my hope is we use ALL the tools available.

I see very similar similarities to that 2009 timeframe. We traded up hard in the draft for a component that would single handed change the dynamic of our new Defensive scheme (sound familiar?)
It actually worked!! After 2009 was MM reforming the Defensive Coaching culture.. very similar to this season. Dom Capers came in and the scheme was changed and announced we’d be more a hybrid D. Those were exciting times and that excitement poured over to the players and fans. We took an aggressive approach that season because we clearly saw… we had our QB. That draft trade up move for a perfect fit LB was integral to the success of the next several seasons.

It doesn’t HAVE to be LB, that’s not the point either. It can be anyone who will take their position group to another level. Get 1 in FA and then keep our foot on the gas. Use a 3rd Rounder (in some capacity) to move up into that top 20 if deemed necessary. Don’t play “prevent” FA or “prevent” Draft philosophy this is not business as usual. This is business as exceptional. Supplement with typical bargains… but use FA AND Draft in an atypical approach is my hope.

 

[PikeBadger]

You raise a point I hardly ever see anyone mention here, probably because we've all become conditioned to living in a world where Green Bay just.... well.... doesn't do **** like that. We draft, we develop, we accumulate draft picks by earning comp picks and then using those comp picks to draft more players to develop and trade for more draft pciks, etc, over and over and over again.

And that's just what Green Bay does. We just bore the hell out of the entire planet with our methodical, plodding, predictable, classically German approach, always doing things the cautious, prudent, responsible way. It becomes very easy for us to forget that, ya know, you can trade draft picks for players. It's OK; it really is a thing. It's been done. It's right there in the rules, you're allowed to do that.

Or, you can trade players for players... or players and draft picks for players. Or players and draft picks for other draft picks. Or whatever the hell else we want to trade for.

But we have never lived in that world. It's a way of team-building that has never been a part of our organizational culture, and in many ways I can understand how we got to this point and why we have stayed stuck there. Gutekunst has had to start from scratch, and he carefully built a playoff team in just 3 years by making every draft pick count.

But right now, at this moment of our organizational arc, we have the latitude to take some risks and spend some of draft capital. Maybe now, we finally start to find out what kind of GM he's really wanted to be all along.

Or........ perhaps Gutekunst really believes that he can pick up a couple of decent free agents later to fill in any remaining holes and rely on more development from his 2nd and 3rd year players.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You raise a point I hardly ever see anyone mention here, probably because we've all become conditioned to living in a world where Green Bay just.... well.... doesn't do **** like that. We draft, we develop, we accumulate draft picks by earning comp picks and then using those comp picks to draft more players to develop and trade for more draft pciks, etc, over and over and over again.

And that's just what Green Bay does. We just bore the hell out of the entire planet with our methodical, plodding, predictable, classically German approach, always doing things the cautious, prudent, responsible way. It becomes very easy for us to forget that, ya know, you can trade draft picks for players. It's OK; it really is a thing. It's been done. It's right there in the rules, you're allowed to do that.

Or, you can trade players for players... or players and draft picks for players. Or players and draft picks for other draft picks. Or whatever the hell else we want to trade for.

But we have never lived in that world. It's a way of team-building that has never been a part of our organizational culture, and in many ways I can understand how we got to this point and why we have stayed stuck there. Gutekunst has had to start from scratch, and he carefully built a playoff team in just 3 years by making every draft pick count.

But right now, at this moment of our organizational arc, we have the latitude to take some risks and spend some of draft capital. Maybe now, we finally start to find out what kind of GM he's really wanted to be all along.

I'm fine with Gute's method to not include a lot of trading draft picks for players. He seems to like to trade players for draft picks or draft picks for draft picks.

I guess it goes for free agency too, but I always wonder "Why are they trading this guy, if he is all that good?" Does he want out of that franchise, more money, hidden injury, locker room cancer, etc. Also, a lot of times when a guy is on the trading block, if there aren't any suitors, he gets cut anyway. Of course throwing a 6th or 7th rounder at a team isn't so bad, if it assures you of getting that player and his contract (if it is favorable).

Gute's 2 biggest player trades for picks, was obviously Rodgers and Adams. I think both turned out pretty well for the Packers. Would have been nice to still have Davante, but the cost to do so was high and I'm not so sure he wanted to stay in GB. Now if he can trade Bahk and even get a 6th rounder, I would be happy.

 

[OldSchool101]

Or........ perhaps Gutekunst really believes that he can pick up a couple of decent free agents later to fill in any remaining holes and rely on more development from his 2nd and 3rd year players.

The only thing I’d warn against that philosophy is that I believe that growth doesn’t just happen in GB (not saying you believe that) It’s one component (and conceivably should be for us due to relative inexperience). All teams are trying to better themselves and we can’t expect the 49ers, Bucs, Vikings, Saints, Detroit … all to remain static.