2024 Draft Prospect Discussions

[Dantés]

Maybe I'm just an idiot (not maybe, probably), but I don't think DeJean is a good fit in Green Bay.

Everything we know about Hafley is that he's going to want to play more man and use more press.

DeJean is much better in zone coverage than in man and he barely pressed in college. In general, he's way better when the action is in front of him than he is at turning and running with guys.

Maybe there are skills there that I just don't see, but I think if they drafted him, he wouldn't fit outside and they'd have to either use him in the slot or as a safety. I'm sure he could be good at those spots, but I don't want them to use a round 1 pick on slot corner or strong safety.

 

[tynimiller]

Maybe I'm just an idiot (not maybe, probably), but I don't think DeJean is a good fit in Green Bay.

Everything we know about Hafley is that he's going to want to play more man and use more press.

DeJean is much better in zone coverage than in man and he barely pressed in college. In general, he's way better when the action is in front of him than he is at turning and running with guys.

Maybe there are skills there that I just don't see, but I think if they drafted him, he wouldn't fit outside and they'd have to either use him in the slot or as a safety. I'm sure he could be good at those spots, but I don't want them to use a round 1 pick on slot corner or strong safety.

DeJean is not a next level outside corner. He is a safety and I find myself highly preferring a day 1 pick be spent on an outside corner or an edge like one of the Robinsons over Cooper as much as I love him as a safety.

 

[Dantés]

DeJean is not a next level outside corner. He is a safety and I find myself highly preferring a day 1 pick be spent on an outside corner or an edge like one of the Robinsons over Cooper as much as I love him as a safety.

I think he can play a high level outside corner for a team that majors in off coverage and lots of zone.

 

[Thirteen Below]

I think he can play a high level outside corner for a team that majors in off coverage and lots of zone.

A Barry safety, then... rather than a Hafley safety.

Makes sense. If he's somehow still there at #25, maybe that's a chance to trade back and pick up an extra Day Two pick.

 

[tynimiller]

I think he can play a high level outside corner for a team that majors in off coverage and lots of zone.

Correct I mistyped that, he is not an outside corner in a Hefley system...Joe Barry absolutely.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Correct I mistyped that, he is not an outside corner in a Hefley system...Joe Barry absolutely.

Interesting comments about DeJean. I didn't realize that he was/is better suited to a zone defense, and he's certainly not a perimeter CB. Hopefully Hafley will play a lot more man. Zone certainly didn't work for Barry. As you noted, DeJean projects as a S, and IMO the greater need is at perimeter CB. And it's a lousy draft for safeties.

So I'm hoping the Packers trade up and grab one of the three or four top CBs in the draft. I don't recall all of their names, but most mocks have them off the board by pick #15 or #20. Gluten has a lot of picks, very few glaring needs other than secondary, and can afford to move up to around #15.

Or he grabs any of the highly-graded OTs in this draft. It would be nice to get through most of a season with the same starting OL.

 

[PikeBadger]

Cooper DeJean had his Pro Day today. Here are some measureables.

The thing I like most about DeJean is, he's a football player. He's got confidence, instinctual awareness and an aura about him that he is plotting your imminent demise. Guys like him do not grow on trees and they change the vector in football games.

 

[PikeBadger]

A Barry safety, then... rather than a Hafley safety.

Makes sense. If he's somehow still there at #25, maybe that's a chance to trade back and pick up an extra Day Two pick.

I'm not sure if Hafley has the wherewithal to make good use of a guy like DeJean or not. Remains to be seen how mentally adept and adaptable he is within his schemes to be able to take advantage of individual players strengths.

 

[tynimiller]

The thing I like most about DeJean is, he's a football player. He's got confidence, instinctual awareness and an aura about him that he plotting your imminent demise. Guys like him do not grow on trees and they change the vector in football games.

Concur that is his greatest attribute - IF playing him at Safety I could see him and Xavier potentially being special.

Those that find it odd about DeJean's inability to play press man or man...remember press man and off man are desperately different. Even when Barry would call man coverages, we'd see Jaire provide a seven yard cushion as told to do...that is how Cooper played nearly every snap. I say nearly every but I know I watched a few games where I never saw him closer than six/seven yards off scrimmage if aligned outside.

He is a GIFTED corner if playing a lot of zone and soft coverage calls - if playing more man and especially press man, you're asking him to do something he's never been asked to do. Now the big question for a team like say us, is do you draft Cooper and plan on more safety role and off man but perhaps scouts and Hafley have seen enough to think the footwork or growth is there to be serviceable in press man?????

I struggle to see that personally and is why from the go I had him as my #1 Safety. I can get on board with the logic of drafting him Day1, won't mean he is the firstor even second guy I'd take - but he's a first round graded player without blinking.

 

[Dantés]

A Barry safety, then... rather than a Hafley safety.

Makes sense. If he's somehow still there at #25, maybe that's a chance to trade back and pick up an extra Day Two pick.

A Barry corner, in my opinion. I think he could play safety for either guy.

However, I think one of the reasons you pay a Xavier McKinney 17M AAV is so that you don't need to invest premium resources in the other safety spot.

 

[tynimiller]

A cornerback that I think could be a slick third or fourth rounder for us that you're not going to see and hear a lot connected to GB is Elijah Jones.

Elijah Jones measurables are Height of hair over 6'1' and weight of 185lb. Arm length is sufficient at 31.5 and hands are 9.25.

Athletic testing score and vs another guy some here have expressed liking in Andru Phillips:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

As for what he has done in college...he's played three years (two I'd argue were excellent years - 2023 and 2021, and 2022 he was still a solid graded player) for Boston College.
2023 - He got a 89.8 coverage grade in 2023, 69.6 in 2022, 75.8 in 2021, 67.4 in 2020, 65.2 in 2019 and 75.1 in 2018. Overall defensive grades from 2023 back - 86.9, 65, 72.4, 66.9, 62.2, 73.7.

Truthfully I don't understand why he never went out for the draft before, because he has a draftable profile IMO and film now for a couple years. Is he a top 10/15 CB in the draft, most are going to state and agree no. Is he one of the top 25 however, IMO absolutely.

One thing I found myself loving about him was this young man (not so young as a graduate of course) stepped it up in big games...this past year hosting FSU, @ Louisville, @ GA Tech, and last year at vs Clemson and NCstate and ND were some of his best games. Some players fold under high stakes games - Jones DOES NOT seem to be one of them.

He played outside corner the last three years and nearly a 4:1 ratio on the outside vs inside at the slot, but he has proven that versatility and has the athleticism to where I could see a team use him at either.

 

[Dantés]

I'm not sure if Hafley has the wherewithal to make good use of a guy like DeJean or not. Remains to be seen how mentally adept and adaptable he is within his schemes to be able to take advantage of individual players strengths.

Maybe there are things that DeJean CAN do that he just wasn't really asked to do as much and they see the fit for him in the defense and I don't. That's entirely possible. He is a good prospect.

However, I struggle sometimes when people talk about coordinators just needing to cater their scheme to players. I understand there's a degree of truth to that, but it's a team sport and you can only adapt so much because you're working with a variety of skill sets.

Say they added DeJean and say, for this hypothetical, that my read on him is correct and, in order to thrive he needs to play off and he needs to play almost exclusively zone.

Well, they also have Jaire Alexander on the team. He has been frustrated and fans have been frustrated that he was asked by Barry to play so much off coverage and so little man. His skillset would lend itself to more press and more man.

So if you put these two players on the same team and just say "Hafley needs to have the wherewithal to make the best use of them," you're putting him in an impossible position. You can't put two players in an ideal position to succeed if their skillsets are entirely different.

It's like if you gave a coach a center who stinks in gap scheme runs and thrives in outside zone, but also a guard who can't move well enough to block the outside zone at all, but is really good in gap scheme, and then told the coaches "idealize both these players." How do you that?

For that reason, while I totally agree that coordinators/coaches do need to try as best they can to tailor scheme to talent, I think it is equally as critical to draft/sign players that help tailor talent to scheme. And I would argue that the reality of that need is often glossed by assuming coaches can do the impossible.

 

[PikeBadger]

Maybe there are things that DeJean CAN do that he just wasn't really asked to do as much and they see the fit for him in the defense and I don't. That's entirely possible. He is a good prospect.

However, I struggle sometimes when people talk about coordinators just needing to cater their scheme to players. I understand there's a degree of truth to that, but it's a team sport and you can only adapt so much because you're working with a variety of skill sets.

Say they added DeJean and say, for this hypothetical, that my read on him is correct and, in order to thrive he needs to play off and he needs to play almost exclusively zone.

Well, they also have Jaire Alexander on the team. He has been frustrated and fans have been frustrated that he was asked by Barry to play so much off coverage and so little man. His skillset would lend itself to more press and more man.

So if you put these two players on the same team and just say "Hafley needs to have the wherewithal to make the best use of them," you're putting him in an impossible position. You can't put two players in an ideal position to succeed if their skillsets are entirely different.

It's like if you gave a coach a center who stinks in gap scheme runs and thrives in outside zone, but also a guard who can't move well enough to block the outside zone at all, but is really good in gap scheme, and then told the coaches "idealize both these players." How do you that?

For that reason, while I totally agree that coordinators/coaches do need to try as best they can to tailor scheme to talent, I think it is equally as critical to draft/sign players that help tailor talent to scheme. And I would argue that the reality of that need is often glossed by assuming coaches can do the impossible.

Alexander is a core player. DeJean could be tried out at both safety and slot corner to see how he adjusts to those positions if the staff and scouts feel he possesses the physical and mental traits to make the move. We know Alexander is a one trick pony. He's an up tight cover corner who can't catch and doesn't play well inn zone.
If the staff and scouts feel that DeJean is not suited to make the move that Hyde made, then they should not draft him and honestly should not even have him on their board.
I just hope if that's the case, that he doesn't end up on a team in our division or San Fran, Philadelphia or Tampa. I can see DeJean causing problems for us down the road in critical games.

 

[PikeBadger]

Maybe there are things that DeJean CAN do that he just wasn't really asked to do as much and they see the fit for him in the defense and I don't. That's entirely possible. He is a good prospect.

However, I struggle sometimes when people talk about coordinators just needing to cater their scheme to players. I understand there's a degree of truth to that, but it's a team sport and you can only adapt so much because you're working with a variety of skill sets.

Say they added DeJean and say, for this hypothetical, that my read on him is correct and, in order to thrive he needs to play off and he needs to play almost exclusively zone.

Well, they also have Jaire Alexander on the team. He has been frustrated and fans have been frustrated that he was asked by Barry to play so much off coverage and so little man. His skillset would lend itself to more press and more man.

So if you put these two players on the same team and just say "Hafley needs to have the wherewithal to make the best use of them," you're putting him in an impossible position. You can't put two players in an ideal position to succeed if their skillsets are entirely different.

It's like if you gave a coach a center who stinks in gap scheme runs and thrives in outside zone, but also a guard who can't move well enough to block the outside zone at all, but is really good in gap scheme, and then told the coaches "idealize both these players." How do you that?

For that reason, while I totally agree that coordinators/coaches do need to try as best they can to tailor scheme to talent, I think it is equally as critical to draft/sign players that help tailor talent to scheme. And I would argue that the reality of that need is often glossed by assuming coaches can do the impossible.

It's all about how the Packers scouts, staff and GM view DeJean to which I have no inkling whatsoever. I only know what I've seen. DeJean is the only defender in this draft that I've seen that is potentially that game-changing difference maker on a consistent basis. I haven't seen any generational players at all in this draft but hey, I'm certainly no expert in prospect assessment. Heck, I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm just another arm-chair keypad warrior.

 

[tynimiller]

A cornerback that I think could be a slick third or fourth rounder for us that you're not going to see and hear a lot connected to GB is Elijah Jones.

Elijah Jones measurables are Height of hair over 6'1' and weight of 185lb. Arm length is sufficient at 31.5 and hands are 9.25.

Athletic testing score and vs another guy some here have expressed liking in Andru Phillips:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

As for what he has done in college...he's played three years (two I'd argue were excellent years - 2023 and 2021, and 2022 he was still a solid graded player) for Boston College.
2023 - He got a 89.8 coverage grade in 2023, 69.6 in 2022, 75.8 in 2021, 67.4 in 2020, 65.2 in 2019 and 75.1 in 2018. Overall defensive grades from 2023 back - 86.9, 65, 72.4, 66.9, 62.2, 73.7.

Truthfully I don't understand why he never went out for the draft before, because he has a draftable profile IMO and film now for a couple years. Is he a top 10/15 CB in the draft, most are going to state and agree no. Is he one of the top 25 however, IMO absolutely.

One thing I found myself loving about him was this young man (not so young as a graduate of course) stepped it up in big games...this past year hosting FSU, @ Louisville, @ GA Tech, and last year at vs Clemson and NCstate and ND were some of his best games. Some players fold under high stakes games - Jones DOES NOT seem to be one of them.

He played outside corner the last three years and nearly a 4:1 ratio on the outside vs inside at the slot, but he has proven that versatility and has the athleticism to where I could see a team use him at either.

 

[Heyjoe4]

The thing I like most about DeJean is, he's a football player. He's got confidence, instinctual awareness and an aura about him that he plotting your imminent demise. Guys like him do not grow on trees and they change the vector in football games.

Good point. Yeah the guy looks the part. And sometimes, regardless of need, you want a guy like that on your team. It's the same way Christian McCaffrey plays offense. Call him a RB or a receiver or a blocker- the guy just gets stuff done and wins.

 

[Dantés]

It's all about how the Packers scouts, staff and GM view DeJean to which I have no inkling whatsoever. I only know what I've seen. DeJean is the only defender in this draft that I've seen that is potentially that game-changing difference maker on a consistent basis. I haven't seen any generational players at all in this draft but hey, I'm certainly no expert in prospect assessment. Heck, I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. I'm just another arm-chair keypad warrior.

Recall that Josh Jackson had 8 (!!!) interceptions and 18 (!!!) passes broken up in his last season for the Hawkeyes. But he was a very specific type of player (off, zone). He couldn't transition to the variety of the NFL and totally flamed out.

I'm not saying that DeJean is the exact same prospect (though Jackson was no slouch as an athlete), but I just say that to illustrate that a player can appear to be a total game-changer in college while still having a pretty narrow NFL projection.

 

[Dantés]

Alexander is a core player. DeJean could be tried out at both safety and slot corner to see how he adjusts to those positions if the staff and scouts feel he possesses the physical and mental traits to make the move. We know Alexander is a one trick pony. He's an up tight cover corner who can't catch and doesn't play well inn zone.
If the staff and scouts feel that DeJean is not suited to make the move that Hyde made, then they should not draft him and honestly should not even have him on their board.
I just hope if that's the case, that he doesn't end up on a team in our division or San Fran, Philadelphia or Tampa. I can see DeJean causing problems for us down the road in critical games.

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I actually do think that Alexander can play well in zone, and has. But his superpower is man coverage, so if you're going to pay him you had better use it.

I agree that DeJean could be a slot or strong safety. But I don't want to see them spend their top pick on a slot or a position switch.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I actually do think that Alexander can play well in zone, and has. But his superpower is man coverage, so if you're going to pay him you had better use it.

I agree that DeJean could be a slot or strong safety. But I don't want to see them spend their top pick on a slot or a position switch.

After taking McKinney, the biggest remaining need in the secondary is perimeter CB. There are 3 or 4 guys at the front-end of the draft (top 15-20) and would like Gluten to trade up and grab one of those guys.

After that, they can grab one of the many solid O Linemen in this draft, ideally a T who can play inside. Walker played way above his draft position last year at LT, and competition/depth at that blindside T position is needed. But first, CB. If Stokes can regain his rookie form, fine. I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Voyageur]

I wouldn't touch DeJean with the defense under Hafely. He likes to use press man and will use a 4-3, and 5-2 as it suits the situation. Our CBs need to be able to handle the press, and I don't see DeJean doing that to be honest.

I think they're going to go with someone to augment the offensive line early, if someone like Barton is available. After that, an interior linebacker who can play sideline to sideline, if there's one that can be counted on from day one. Next up, probably looking at a shutdown safety.

Lots of early possibilities, to fill needs. Even a bull to play interior D Line would be in the mix. Someone who can move bodies, and put centers and/or guards in the lap of their QBs.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I wouldn't touch DeJean with the defense under Hafely. He likes to use press man and will use a 4-3, and 5-2 as it suits the situation. Our CBs need to be able to handle the press, and I don't see DeJean doing that to be honest.

I think they're going to go with someone to augment the offensive line early, if someone like Barton is available. After that, an interior linebacker who can play sideline to sideline, if there's one that can be counted on from day one. Next up, probably looking at a shutdown safety.

Lots of early possibilities, to fill needs. Even a bull to play interior D Line would be in the mix. Someone who can move bodies, and put centers and/or guards in the lap of their QBs.

My bet is a trade up in round 1 to grab a CB. Then an OL, ideally a T, in round 2. After that, who the **** knows?

Ty identified an interesting CB who looks like a 3rd or 4th round prospect, Elijah Jones. Could use a few pounds, but that will happen. They simply can't count on Stokes to be there opposite JA. They have also generally had ****** luck drafting corners and safeties in rd 1. Hopefully that will change.

 

[Voyageur]

My bet is a trade up in round 1 to grab a CB. Then an OL, ideally a T, in round 2. After that, who the **** knows?

Ty identified an interesting CB who looks like a 3rd or 4th round prospect, Elijah Jones. Could use a few pounds, but that will happen. They simply can't count on Stokes to be there opposite JA. They have also generally had ****** luck drafting corners and safeties in rd 1. Hopefully that will change.

I favor Barton early because the guy can be plugged into four of the five positions on our O Line on day one from what I've seen of him. It would take a bit of time for him to make it at LT, but I think he could do that too, with some work. But, plug and play is the key.

I like McKinney via free agency at safety. But, Johnson as the free safety just ain't gonna cut it. That puts that fill at a high priority, and quite honestly, someone who you feel can start immediately, and will take on field coaching from McKinney. Stokes, Valentine, Alexander, and Ballentine is a fairly decent mix, and the priority is lower than safety. Walker and McDuffie is all we have at the two ILB positions, behind them, not much, and quite honestly, I'm not really impressed with McDuffie, so we'll have to see how he does. I think he'd make a decent back up, but a starter? Probably not.

We have nobody as a back up at center, or left guard at this point. If we slide anyone over to play the position, it would be a sub, like Tenuta or Newman. That makes me want to have a couple shots of tequila. I see that as disaster, because I even question them in their right side back up roles. Plus, we're talking Myers at center. Adequate, but we need to find someone for the future to be honest. Someone better. At left guard, we have our best offensive lineman, in Elgton Jenkins, who we need to see stay healthy. He's going to be the key to this line, no matter what. At left tackle, we're all hoping that Rasheed Walker can handle the job. Behind him is Caleb Jones, and he doesn't impress me one bit to be honest. In fact, I'm not totally sold on Walker being a long term fix on that side. If a can't miss LT is still on the board at any time during our first 3 picks, the Packers will go for him I'd imagine.

Another point is, that if we do have Barton, and we find that Walker can't cut it at LT, Jenkins could be moved over there to hold down the fort, even though he'd not be in his best position, but Barton could probably fill his slot at LG.

Anyhow, that's some of the "what if's?," I keep running through my mind about how the draft will go. Since I don't have the coaches or Gutey's ear, it's hard to understand their thinking at this point.

Anyhow, just my opinions.

 

[OldSchool101]

However, I think one of the reasons you pay a Xavier McKinney 17M AAV is so that you don't need to invest premium resources in the other safety spot.

This for me is a bigger piece of the argument, the balance of resources. If we had 2 Day 1’s maybe DeJean is somehow someone I’d be more excited about. However we also have to look at market conditions at Safety. There’s a flood of them in FA and there’s also some really good ones that would be sized to fit that Hybrid Safety-LB Role in that later Day2-earlier Day3 area which are more cost effective. I like him as an athlete but idk if he’s the best use of resources? unless DE or OL is just stripped clean

 

[Heyjoe4]

I favor Barton early because the guy can be plugged into four of the five positions on our O Line on day one from what I've seen of him. It would take a bit of time for him to make it at LT, but I think he could do that too, with some work. But, plug and play is the key.

I like McKinney via free agency at safety. But, Johnson as the free safety just ain't gonna cut it. That puts that fill at a high priority, and quite honestly, someone who you feel can start immediately, and will take on field coaching from McKinney. Stokes, Valentine, Alexander, and Ballentine is a fairly decent mix, and the priority is lower than safety. Walker and McDuffie is all we have at the two ILB positions, behind them, not much, and quite honestly, I'm not really impressed with McDuffie, so we'll have to see how he does. I think he'd make a decent back up, but a starter? Probably not.

We have nobody as a back up at center, or left guard at this point. If we slide anyone over to play the position, it would be a sub, like Tenuta or Newman. That makes me want to have a couple shots of tequila. I see that as disaster, because I even question them in their right side back up roles. Plus, we're talking Myers at center. Adequate, but we need to find someone for the future to be honest. Someone better. At left guard, we have our best offensive lineman, in Elgton Jenkins, who we need to see stay healthy. He's going to be the key to this line, no matter what. At left tackle, we're all hoping that Rasheed Walker can handle the job. Behind him is Caleb Jones, and he doesn't impress me one bit to be honest. In fact, I'm not totally sold on Walker being a long term fix on that side. If a can't miss LT is still on the board at any time during our first 3 picks, the Packers will go for him I'd imagine.

Another point is, that if we do have Barton, and we find that Walker can't cut it at LT, Jenkins could be moved over there to hold down the fort, even though he'd not be in his best position, but Barton could probably fill his slot at LG.

Anyhow, that's some of the "what if's?," I keep running through my mind about how the draft will go. Since I don't have the coaches or Gutey's ear, it's hard to understand their thinking at this point.

Anyhow, just my opinions.

Well that's the best argument I've seen to grab an O lineman in the first round. The O line was above average last year, and now with the emergence of Love - well protecting him and powering the run game become a top priority.

And maybe Valentine continues and improves on his solid rookie play and CB can wait. I feel a lot better about the secondary with McKinney on board.

If Barton is that versatile, then he probably should be the first pick for the reasons you state. The good news is that this is a solid draft for O Linemen. And I hope there is a C/iOL who can eventually replace Myers in the first 5 picks. Love deserves his version or Frank Winters or Corey Linsley. Myers ain't that guy.

 

[DoURant]

Here is a breakdown of the last time the Packers drafted a player in the 1st Rd at each position, plus the last time and who was drafted in any Rd. Pretty interesting on the offensive side of the ball.