2023 Tyni's Prospect Thread

[tynimiller]

Yeah, I just don't see the Packers picking up Love's 5th year, unless Rodgers retires or is traded, before the deadline to do so (beginning of May).

I also don't see the Packers trading a potential starting QB, just to pick up a bit more than they would in a compensatory pick. Doing that forces them to first find a backup for Rodgers or a starter if Rodgers is gone. More importantly, it prematurely closes the door on Love being Rodgers potential heir to the job. Gute has to see his 2020 pick to the finish or the grumblings about it will be even louder than they already are. Imagine the Packers trade Love away and suddenly he is a top 10 QB, for another NFC team. Not worth risking for a day 3 pick IMO.

If you don't trade Love when he wants out, especially after not wanting to pick up his 5th year option - I'll go on record it will be VERY difficult for GB to sign him after the 2023 season in FA. That young man will have sacrificed multiple years, watched a franchise bow to Rodgers desires towards his final two years and to top it off not have faith in their own pick enough to pick up his 5th year option...MAINLY because their contract extension with the QB ahead of him making it fiscally not a smart thing to do.

No I strongly feel if both #10 and #12 are in GB next year IT has to come with the fact Love had his 5th year picked up and Rodgers/Gute/Ball already have plans and such for salary sh**fallout from this whole mismanagement of sorts (that is more than just picking Love, or Rodgers resurgence, or Rodgers extension....or numerous other things).

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

No I strongly feel if both #10 and #12 are in GB next year IT has to come with the fact Love had his 5th year picked up

Picking up his 5th year just delays what you say won't happen, signing him after 4 years. Why would he sign after 5?

All our speculation centers around what we as fans don't know, but the Packers organization might. That is, are they seeing a starting caliber QB in Love? If they do, then they won't let him walk away or trade him. They will do whatever they need to do to try and convince him to resign an incentive based contract that gives him starter money, when he becomes the starter.

If the Packers get knocked out of the Playoffs on Sunday, we will at least see Love for the final 2 games, enough to make decisions? Probably not and even if it was, Rodgers still has the Packers held hostage with his contract and his decisions.

But we digress....just looked at thread title...my fault.....back to your prospects.

 

[tynimiller]

Picking up his 5th year just delays what you say won't happen, signing him after 4 years. Why would he sign after 5?

All our speculation centers around what we as fans don't know, but the Packers organization might. That is, are they seeing a starting caliber QB in Love? If they do, then they won't let him walk away or trade him. They will do whatever they need to do to try and convince him to resign an incentive based contract that gives him starter money, when he becomes the starter.

If the Packers get knocked out of the Playoffs on Sunday, we will at least see Love for the final 2 games, enough to make decisions? Probably not and even if it was, Rodgers still has the Packers held hostage with his contract and his decisions.

But we digress....just looked at thread title...my fault.....back to your prospects.

Because picking up his 5th year at minimum says we are going to you, you are our future for certain at the tune of $20M or so.


Here's a prospect I'm really liking as the Cobb replacement:

Marvin Mims WR Oklahoma 5'11' 179lbs

He is a smaller type guy but frame is solid for it however. This dude is QUICK! 63% of his targets last season were over 10 yards...insane, not sure if this year repeated that. The dude has put up the following three years in college (IMPRESSIVE):

2020 - 37 Rec / 610 yards / 16.5 Avg / 9 TDs
2021 - 32 Rec / 705 yards / 22.0 Avg / 5 TDs
2022 - 52 Rec / 1,006 yards / 19.3 Avg / 6 TDs

Now he could return to school for another year, but with how he spoke about culture and such few weeks back I suspect his time is now and he will be in the draft. If he is he would be a dynamite target for Day 2 and his play style and fit would be awesome along with Doubs and Watson.

 

[Magooch]

Yeah, I just don't see the Packers picking up Love's 5th year, unless Rodgers retires or is traded, before the deadline to do so (beginning of May).

I also don't see the Packers trading a potential starting QB, just to pick up a bit more than they would in a compensatory pick. Doing that forces them to first find a backup for Rodgers or a starter if Rodgers is gone. More importantly, it prematurely closes the door on Love being Rodgers potential heir to the job. Gute has to see his 2020 pick to the finish or the grumblings about it will be even louder than they already are. Imagine the Packers trade Love away and suddenly he is a top 10 QB, for another NFC team. Not worth risking for a day 3 pick IMO.

That's kind of my feeling. I wonder what kind of compensatory pick we'd get for letting Love walk? At some point I'd think the difference (Between what we'd get in compensation vs a trade) would be small enough that there'd be reason to simply keep him around...IF you thought Love was good enough to be the "future" to trade up and draft him and IF you think he still potentially can be that guy, would you let that go a year early just to gain what, a +1 round better draft pick?

And a lot can change in a year's time. Maybe Love does want a trade now as things stand (provided he is not going to start next year)....but maybe he ends up staying nonetheless and getting the job handed over to him in 2024. A few years down the line it may all be bygones...He certainly wouldn't be the first player to be unhappy with his situation, ask for a trade but not be given one, and ending up happily playing for that same team for a long time...

I just don't think he has a ton of leverage either. Ultimately he is still our backup QB. It's one thing if one of your key starting players demands a trade and threatens to sit out...it's another thing if it's a backup. Our worst-case scenario is that Love holds out and we have to have a different backup QB for a year before he leaves and gets us a compensatory pick. Think the risk-reward is probably worth keeping him around.

 

[tynimiller]

That's kind of my feeling. I wonder what kind of compensatory pick we'd get for letting Love walk? At some point I'd think the difference (Between what we'd get in compensation vs a trade) would be small enough that there'd be reason to simply keep him around...IF you thought Love was good enough to be the "future" to trade up and draft him and IF you think he still potentially can be that guy, would you let that go a year early just to gain what, a +1 round better draft pick?

I strongly suspect there isn't a team ANYWHERE in the league that would give you a 2nd rounder. MAYBE if you send back with Love a 4th or a 3rd.

Now is there a world where say like I've said before Seattle decides to take the low risk move of Love by sending us their two 4ths in the 2023 draft since they have so much other equity to build other spots with....that is immediate window potential help for a Rodgers led team, instead of waiting a full year for a comp pick (no guarantee but likely) for Love...which I DOUBT is going to bring you back more than what maybe a 4th...or just a single 3rd a full year later.

Same thing, but slightly different scenario...but the only way I see getting more than the above is either a 4th or 5th rounder in 2023 with a conditional 2024 pick based on either how many starts he makes for the team, production incentives, playoff stuff... I mean you could make it a 4th with elevating factors that would make it a 3rd or even a 2nd that the team losing the pick would still see MINIMAL cost of the move because if those escalations hit it is due to Love showcasing he's their future.

 

[Magooch]

I strongly suspect there isn't a team ANYWHERE in the league that would give you a 2nd rounder. MAYBE if you send back with Love a 4th or a 3rd.

Now is there a world where say like I've said before Seattle decides to take the low risk move of Love by sending us their two 4ths in the 2023 draft since they have so much other equity to build other spots with....that is immediate window potential help for a Rodgers led team, instead of waiting a full year for a comp pick (no guarantee but likely) for Love...which I DOUBT is going to bring you back more than what maybe a 4th...or just a single 3rd a full year later.

Sure, but that's kind of my point. What's the best trade we'd get for Love? Maybe a 3rd, maybe two fourths over two years? And what would we get in a comp pick...maybe a third, maybe a fourth?

So if your options are 1.) trade Love for a 3rd or two 4ths now or 2.) Keep Love and *potentially* see him walk and get a 3rd or 4th a year later....it feels like there is a lot more (potential) benefit to keeping him here - even if you don't pick up his option - than there would be to trading. Getting the same pick a year earlier or an additional mid-round pick doesn't seem worth the potential loss IMO

 

[tynimiller]

Sure, but that's kind of my point. What's the best trade we'd get for Love? Maybe a 3rd, maybe two fourths over two years? And what would we get in a comp pick...maybe a third, maybe a fourth?

So if your options are 1.) trade Love for a 3rd or two 4ths now or 2.) Keep Love and *potentially* see him walk and get a 3rd or 4th a year later....it feels like there is a lot more (potential) benefit to keeping him here - even if you don't pick up his option - than there would be to trading. Getting the same pick a year earlier or an additional mid-round pick doesn't seem worth the potential loss IMO

Keeping him here without the 5th year option is yet again attempting to keep one foot in the Rodgers bucket and one foot in the future "Love" bucket. Nope we have to be done with that BS, commit to on bucket fully. Give me the draft equity now whatever it is for Love and turn that into rookies or a veteran acquisition that will help in an additional trade.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Keeping him here without the 5th year option is yet again attempting to keep one foot in the Rodgers bucket and one foot in the future "Love" bucket. Nope we have to be done with that BS, commit to on bucket fully. Give me the draft equity now whatever it is for Love and turn that into rookies or a veteran acquisition that will help in an additional trade.

I agree. As long as Rodgers plays, Gluten should do anything and everything he can NOW to help Rodgers. If that means trading Love for two 4th round picks (I think it would only be one, but whatever) it's worth it.

Now if GB loses at Miami and Love starts the last two games, we'll have a better idea of how he plays in real games - for 60 minutes, not as a walk on.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Love will earn a total of $12,383,453 from his 4 year rookie deal. I doubt he is all that unhappy about sitting behind and learning from, one of the best to ever play the game. Love also just turned 24 in Nov., plenty of football life left in him. Does he want a shot at starting and at starting money? Sure, but who is going to pay him that AND start him in 2023? If I am his agent I am telling him to wait it out in GB, where the situation, eventually, will be one of the best laid out for him to step right in and be successful.

Even if he is traded, his new team keeps his current contract and rolls the dice that he beats out whatever starter they currently have. Otherwise, they just invested draft picks in a backup QB, that will only be around a year.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Love will earn a total of $12,383,453 from his 4 year rookie deal. I doubt he is all that unhappy about sitting behind and learning from, one of the best to ever play the game. Love also just turned 24 in Nov., plenty of football life left in him. Does he want a shot at starting and at starting money? Sure, but who is going to pay him that AND start him in 2023? If I am his agent I am telling him to wait it out in GB, where the situation, eventually, will be one of the best laid out for him to step right in and be successful.

Even if he is traded, his new team keeps his current contract and rolls the dice that he beats out whatever starter they currently have. Otherwise, they just invested draft picks in a backup QB, that will only be around a year.

Good points and makes it highly unlikely that Love will be anyplace other than GB next year. Well, unless he demands a trade when his fifth year option isn't picked up.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Good points and makes it highly unlikely that Love will be anyplace other than GB next year. Well, unless he demands a trade when his fifth year option isn't picked up.

I really doubt he demands a trade, he has zero leverage to do so. He will also become "one of those guys", if he starts becoming a squeaky wheel. Which is why I pointed out his 4 year salary and age, it isn't chump change. He will eventually get a shot in GB, unless the Packers don't think he has what it takes, than this conversation is mute anyway.

I still contend that the best thing for the Packers would have been to get eliminated 2 games ago and played Love for the last 5 games. However, it isn't happening and they will probably once again head into the offseason not knowing exactly what they have in Love or what Rodgers is doing, which plays a big roll in what they do with Love.

 

[Magooch]

Keeping him here without the 5th year option is yet again attempting to keep one foot in the Rodgers bucket and one foot in the future "Love" bucket. Nope we have to be done with that BS, commit to on bucket fully. Give me the draft equity now whatever it is for Love and turn that into rookies or a veteran acquisition that will help in an additional trade.

In general I'm of the same mind - I don't like us trying to have our cake and eat it too here, but at this point it is what it is...IMO any potential gain/help from a potential Love trade would be pretty minimal. It's hard for me to see a scenario where trading Love (and the subsequent trade return) would be in any way "make or break" for us in 23/24.

I've said before that we really do need to go "all in" and commit to one approach but also wouldn't take "all in" to mean squeezing out every single possible drop of equity from any and every possible source of it, futures be damned... I just don't see a huge benefit to us (Both in the present and in the future) to dealing Love at this point...considering all the possible outcomes it seems to me like there's more potential positives to keeping him at this point than there would be to moving him early.

 

[Magooch]

I really doubt he demands a trade, he has zero leverage to do so. He will also become "one of those guys", if he starts becoming a squeaky wheel. Which is why I pointed out his 4 year salary and age, it isn't chump change. He will eventually get a shot in GB, unless the Packers don't think he has what it takes, than this conversation is mute anyway.

I still contend that the best thing for the Packers would have been to get eliminated 2 games ago and played Love for the last 5 games. However, it isn't happening and they will probably once again head into the offseason not knowing exactly what they have in Love or what Rodgers is doing, which plays a big roll in what they do with Love.

Yep, that's more or less my feeling. Not only does Love not really have any leverage against GB to try and force their hand...but it doesn't really do anything to aid his image for other teams, either. As I said before: it's one thing if one of your star players tries to force a trade or threatens to hold out - it really hurts your team if a guy like Rodgers or Davante or Tyreek or whoever says they won't play for you; that's one of your key players. It's another thing when it's a backup; you don't really lose much by having them potentially hold out.

In the same way... it's one thing if you're considering a trade for a star player who's holding out from his current team. That's a bit of a headache but the talent makes it worth it. Like, if you're wanting to trade for Tyreek Hill or someone you might think it's a bit of a knock on the player that he's holding out on his current team and fear that he might do the same to you...but he's a mega-star player and a total game-changer. Teams are going to be perfectly willing to take the chance on him because of the potential benefit.

But when that's a less proven/established player those teams are going to be a lot more hesitant to deal. Teams will put up with a lot of sh*t if it means getting/keeping a star player; others are going to have *considerably* less "leash" afforded to him. While a team might be willing to stomach that sort of headache from an all-pro type of player, they're going to be a lot less tolerant of it coming from a player who's been a backup for his career thus far.

That's not to say that nobody would want to touch Love if he threatened a holdout but I suspect he would not have a ton of options on the table, either. Plenty of teams will likely look at that and decide they'd rather not bother; they'll just get a player on a rookie contract or something for cheaper with less risk.

 

[tynimiller]

I really doubt he demands a trade, he has zero leverage to do so. He will also become "one of those guys", if he starts becoming a squeaky wheel. Which is why I pointed out his 4 year salary and age, it isn't chump change. He will eventually get a shot in GB, unless the Packers don't think he has what it takes, than this conversation is mute anyway.

I still contend that the best thing for the Packers would have been to get eliminated 2 games ago and played Love for the last 5 games. However, it isn't happening and they will probably once again head into the offseason not knowing exactly what they have in Love or what Rodgers is doing, which plays a big roll in what they do with Love.

Trust me I sincerely believe if he desires a trade it will all be kept very quiet as he will NOT want to be that type of guy. Love is a VERY HIGH character type individual and truly a good person - he will go about the request respectfully and behind closed doors.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Trust me I sincerely believe if he desires a trade it will all be kept very quiet as he will NOT want to be that type of guy. Love is a VERY HIGH character type individual and truly a good person - he will go about the request respectfully and behind closed doors.

Agreed. He's handled this with class. Actually so did Rodgers a long time ago in a similar situation.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Trust me I sincerely believe if he desires a trade it will all be kept very quiet as he will NOT want to be that type of guy. Love is a VERY HIGH character type individual and truly a good person - he will go about the request respectfully and behind closed doors.

If he does, I still doubt that the Packers trade him, despite his potential demand. They invested a first round pick and soon to be a total of $12+ Million in him. This isn't a DB or WR that you have given up on, its a potential franchise QB, that has had a lot invested in him for the future and it makes sense to just let the investment ride to the very end.

 

[tynimiller]

If he does, I still doubt that the Packers trade him, despite his potential demand. They invested a first round pick and soon to be a total of $12+ Million in him. This isn't a DB or WR that you have given up on, its a potential franchise QB, that has had a lot invested in him for the future and it makes sense to just let the investment ride to the very end.

I don't necessarily think they will, but it is a **** poor plan to continue to want to have a single straw in two drinks at the same time.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I don't necessarily think they will, but it is a **** poor plan to continue to want to have a single straw in two drinks at the same time.

If the GM and HC and coaches don't think Love has a very good chance to be the QB of the future, then they should trade him. The $12 mil they've paid him and all the time invested are sunk costs and meaningless, either way really.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I don't necessarily think they will, but it is a **** poor plan to continue to want to have a single straw in two drinks at the same time.

I disagree, it is contingency planning and insurance for the unknown. Let's face it, had Love not been drafted in 2020, Gute probably would have selected a QB or two in the last 2 drafts. Even if he didn't, then it would have happened in 2023. People can complain all they want about him investing in Love too early, but at some point they had to start making an attempt at finding their next QB.

They have 1 more year left on their contingency/insurance plan. It would be silly to cave into the perception that Love needs to start for someone in 2023 and if it isn't the Packers, he needs to be traded.

Side note: Imagine had Rodgers gotten knocked out for the season with that broken thumb, people would be blaming a bad year on Love.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If the GM and HC and coaches don't think Love has a very good chance to be the QB of the future, then they should trade him.

I think that has been implied all along? Let me ask though, if the GM and the HC don't know for sure, what they have in Love, then what?

 

[tynimiller]

I disagree, it is contingency planning and insurance for the unknown. Let's face it, had Love not been drafted in 2020, Gute probably would have selected a QB or two in the last 2 drafts. Even if he didn't, then it would have happened in 2023. People can complain all they want about him investing in Love too early, but at some point they had to start making an attempt at finding their next QB.

They have 1 more year left on their contingency/insurance plan. It would be silly to cave into the perception that Love needs to start for someone in 2023 and if it isn't the Packers, he needs to be traded.

Side note: Imagine had Rodgers gotten knocked out for the season with that broken thumb, people would be blaming a bad year on Love.

I'm all for the insurance policy of a backup and always trying to find the next one at minimum...however the extension and literal fiscal castration nearly the Rodgers extension was given the Love situation was just a terrible idea. Not to mention we didn't need to do it - Rodgers was signed, we didn't have to extend him and guarantee anything more.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm all for the insurance policy of a backup and always trying to find the next one at minimum...however the extension and literal fiscal castration nearly the Rodgers extension was given the Love situation was just a terrible idea. Not to mention we didn't need to do it - Rodgers was signed, we didn't have to extend him and guarantee anything more.

None of which was known when the Packer selected Love in 2020.

Sometimes you have to roll with the changes and if the Packers wanted to keep Rodgers happy and in GB, that is what they did, despite Love. Am I agreeing with it? Not really, but that is just my opinion. I would have traded Rodgers a year or 2 ago.

 

[tynimiller]

None of which was known when the Packer selected Love in 2020.

Sometimes you have to roll with the changes

Actually yes, we knew how long Rodgers was under contract for when we picked Love. He held a contract through 2023 and it wasn't until this past March we decided to lash ourselves to him through 2026 for the tune of about $150.8M for the three year extension.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Actually yes, we knew how long Rodgers was under contract for when we picked Love. He held a contract through 2023

Correct, but we had no clue how long Rodgers would play or force his way out of Green Bay. That all didn't start happening until the 2021 offseason. I guess what I am trying to say, is that at the time Love was drafted, Rodgers career appeared to be winding down. Back to back MVP seasons and an attitude change on Rodgers part, changed that perception and convoluted things on both sides of the discussion. What hasn't changed, is that Love is still a Packer, still a potential replacement for Rodgers and hasn't done anything, that I know of, to make the Packers think otherwise or push them into another direction.

 

[tynimiller]

Correct, but we had no clue how long Rodgers would play or force his way out of Green Bay. That all didn't start happening until the 2021 offseason. I guess what I am trying to say, is that at the time Love was drafted, Rodgers career appeared to be winding down. Back to back MVP seasons and an attitude change on Rodgers part, changed that perception and convoluted things on both sides of the discussion. What hasn't changed, is that Love is still a Packer, still a potential replacement for Rodgers and hasn't done anything, that I know of, to make the Packers think otherwise or push them into another direction.

Again, there was NO reason to fiscally handcuff us when we did to Rodgers further. Play the 2022 season first and see what is happening...make the decision of the future after this year...sign Rodgers to an extension or don't and 2023 is his final contracted year and decide on Love. Shoot truthfully no decision on either of them needed done until after 2023 season if we want to be honest. Both were signed through that year, Rodgers without his extension and Love without his 5th year option.