2023 Tyni's Prospect Thread

[tynimiller]

That is funny, yesterday when you posted about WR's, I looked at Rice and a bunch of other guys. Definitely another decent WR draft, which the Packers should take advantage of, no later than Round 2.

I think we disagree on it, but IMO a lot of what the Packers do in both Free Agency and the Draft, will hinge on what Rodgers decides to do. I don't want to turn this into another Rodgers discussion/thread, but just like last year, I would be fine with trading him, getting extra picks to try and improve the whole team and start the new era with Love.

Oh I do believe it will influence it for sure. There is argument either way IMO though for rooms like Safety, TE, EDGE, iDL and WR due to what is presently on the shelves.

 

[tynimiller]

Not to mention...if Rodgers is back and Cobb with him...doubt we spend HIGH HIGH draft capital to tell Rodgers' buddy he isn't getting snaps at slot.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Not to mention...if Rodgers is back and Cobb with him...doubt we spend HIGH HIGH draft capital to tell Rodgers' buddy he isn't getting snaps at slot.

I like Cobb and I get the fact that the 2 are great friends. However, Rodgers and the Packers should view the decision strictly on whether it improves the team or not. Right now, I think it does, but if they go out and sign OBJ, as you point out, where does Cobb fit in?

I know some will disagree with me on this, but its all about power and control for #12. He wants to look like he is out in front of things and outsmarted someone in the process. Reflects in a good way on the field, not so much off of it.

 

[tynimiller]

I like Cobb and I get the fact that the 2 are great friends. However, Rodgers and the Packers should view the decision strictly on whether it improves the team or not. Right now, I think it does, but if they go out and sign OBJ, as you point out, where does Cobb fit in?

I know some will disagree with me on this, but its all about power and control for #12. He wants to look like he is out in front of things and outsmarted someone in the process. Reflects in a good way on the field, not so much off of it.

OBJ I'll pass personally, but for sure OBJ > Cobb

Shoot I'd rather see at least a dozen rookies > Cobb

 

[Magooch]

I like Cobb and I get the fact that the 2 are great friends. However, Rodgers and the Packers should view the decision strictly on whether it improves the team or not. Right now, I think it does, but if they go out and sign OBJ, as you point out, where does Cobb fit in?

And I'm wondering if this type of thing won't be the deciding factor.
I'm sure I'm repeating myself (more than a couple of times...) but I don't think the team is going to intentionally try and aggravate Rodgers or "force" him out or whatnot. They wouldn't have gone to the lengths they did to patch things up and bring things back if they intended to turn around and burn those bridges a year later.

But we know Rodgers doesn't want to be a part of a rebuild and has always had a big emphasis on not just relationships with teammates but also with feeling like he can "trust" his guys.

I know I said this before too but it was always going to be difficult to assemble a team in 2022/23 that was as talented as the team we had in 2021/22...and in the same way I think it will be difficult to bring back some of "Rodgers' guys" while putting together a team for 23/24 that is as talented as 21/22 or even 22/23. Maybe a year of development for our young WRs and stuff will lead to improvements but frankly if the 21/22 team wasn't good enough and the 22/23 team REALLY wasn't good enough then it's hard for me to envision a scenario - even if Rodgers hypothetically returned to MVP-level play - where our 23/24 team is a serious Super Bowl contender. Never say never but I feel like by and large that window is more or less closed for this current cast. And so if that's the case we have to ask what exactly would be the point of bringing Rodgers and his guys back - unless we really believe that can be enough to have a legitimate Super Bowl-challenging team.

So all that being said I don't think we are going to dive head-first into full-on rebuild or totally gut the team in such a way that would basically force Rodgers out, but I do think it's probably getting to the point where we're going to need to start thinking about not just what is good for the team in the present but also what puts us in the best position for the future. And that probably means not bringing back guys like Cobb, Crosby, Tonyan, Lewis, etc...along with potentially exploring moving Bakh or similar. And if that's the case...I don't think Rodgers is going to want to be a part of that and will likely ask for a trade away.

To be honest that's kind of the outcome I'm hoping for at this point. I love Rodgers and think this year was probably an anomaly - not saying he will be an obvious MVP again but I don't think his decline this year was really an accurate representation of where he is at at this point as a player. BUT even with that being said...as above I have a hard time seeing how we put together a legit contender squad this year if it's with bringing Rodgers back and that's predicated on bringing back guys like Cobb, Crosby, Tonyan, Lewis, etc. I think that at this point for both short-term and near-future it's probably going to be better for us to just start that transition process.

Alternatively you might phrase it backwards and ask: If Rodgers weren't here, would we really be interested in bringing back Cobb, Crosby, etc? I seriously doubt we would and that's probably the answer right there.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And I'm wondering if this type of thing won't be the deciding factor.
I'm sure I'm repeating myself (more than a couple of times...) but I don't think the team is going to intentionally try and aggravate Rodgers or "force" him out or whatnot. They wouldn't have gone to the lengths they did to patch things up and bring things back if they intended to turn around and burn those bridges a year later.

But we know Rodgers doesn't want to be a part of a rebuild and has always had a big emphasis on not just relationships with teammates but also with feeling like he can "trust" his guys.

I know I said this before too but it was always going to be difficult to assemble a team in 2022/23 that was as talented as the team we had in 2021/22...and in the same way I think it will be difficult to bring back some of "Rodgers' guys" while putting together a team for 23/24 that is as talented as 21/22 or even 22/23. Maybe a year of development for our young WRs and stuff will lead to improvements but frankly if the 21/22 team wasn't good enough and the 22/23 team REALLY wasn't good enough then it's hard for me to envision a scenario - even if Rodgers hypothetically returned to MVP-level play - where our 23/24 team is a serious Super Bowl contender. Never say never but I feel like by and large that window is more or less closed for this current cast. And so if that's the case we have to ask what exactly would be the point of bringing Rodgers and his guys back - unless we really believe that can be enough to have a legitimate Super Bowl-challenging team.

So all that being said I don't think we are going to dive head-first into full-on rebuild or totally gut the team in such a way that would basically force Rodgers out, but I do think it's probably getting to the point where we're going to need to start thinking about not just what is good for the team in the present but also what puts us in the best position for the future. And that probably means not bringing back guys like Cobb, Crosby, Tonyan, Lewis, etc...along with potentially exploring moving Bakh or similar. And if that's the case...I don't think Rodgers is going to want to be a part of that and will likely ask for a trade away.

To be honest that's kind of the outcome I'm hoping for at this point. I love Rodgers and think this year was probably an anomaly - not saying he will be an obvious MVP again but I don't think his decline this year was really an accurate representation of where he is at at this point as a player. BUT even with that being said...as above I have a hard time seeing how we put together a legit contender squad this year if it's with bringing Rodgers back and that's predicated on bringing back guys like Cobb, Crosby, Tonyan, Lewis, etc. I think that at this point for both short-term and near-future it's probably going to be better for us to just start that transition process.

Alternatively you might phrase it backwards and ask: If Rodgers weren't here, would we really be interested in bringing back Cobb, Crosby, etc? I seriously doubt we would and that's probably the answer right there.

The situation with Rodgers, reminds me a bit of the final years of McCarthy. We are stuck in a rut and by rinsing and repeating what we have been doing, does that change things for the better? There are 2 big variables in the equation though. Rodgers injuries and the Receiver room. How much did those two factors play into an 8-9 season? I think quite a bit. So if Rodgers stays and can stay healthy, gets a few of "his guys" to be happy, what has to happen at WR and TE to put this team into a top 10 team? Probably go out and sign OBJ or some other proven Vet. In the draft, go after TE Mayer if he is there at #15, but I would hold off on spending too much draft capital on a WR, unless they see an absolute bargain.

 

[Mondio]

It can go both ways. One some level, yes, get younger, get better. On another, you need vets they set tones, they keep things together, they've seen it and done it, they help the young guys just by being there, they set examples, they're a seasoned ear or voice to listen to.
you can't keep them all, you shouldn't a lot of times I'd argue. I doubt Rodgers needs all those guys back to continue on. If he does, well then he does and he'll be gone because I don't see them all back.

David? absolutely. I feel more confident in his knee and he's still top 5 LT. Crosby? He's still pretty reliable low 50's on in. Depending on structure, no problem letting him earn a job again. Lewis? I thought he was going to retire 2 seasons ago. Normally I'd say he really needs to go now too, but our oline kind of needs him still LOL. I understand roster spaces and things too, but isn't about time someone like Deguara does something more? Or #84? time to SOGOFP if you ask me. Need a roster space, take one of theirs. At least you can argue Lewis is providing a service though it probably goes unnoticed by most stat watchers.

Cobb? Same thing, I think he's a good person to have around. I know he's going to have very limited production on the field. He'll have some big plays and a lot of time unnoticed. He's at that point in his career. and I'd love to get better, I really would. I'd like to have 7 Watsons on the team brimming with potential and unharnessed talent. But we don't. We keep jack squat at the receiver position every year. Do I care if they keep one for Cobb? Replace him if you can, but there are others that can be replaced too and this roster is still better for it.

again, I highly doubt Rodgers requires they all be retained, but I don't think it's too much to keep a couple of them. and if they're getting beaten out by some real young talent, i'm sure Aaron is smart enough to know what's up. Just like before, it wasn't about who they get or not, it was how they just washed their hands from guys that meant a lot to this team. Just like Adams, it wasn't all or nothing. He knows the game and the business. There's a difference between saying "see ya" or not even that, or saying, you can earn a job and if they don't, they're gone. It wasn't that Jordy was gone, it was how he was gone. At least that's how I interpreted a lot of this.

 

[tynimiller]

So........ Lukas Van Ness is a beast....

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So........ Lukas Van Ness is a beast....

Yup and I think he slowly climbs the draft boards, especially if he goes to the Scouting Combine healthy and puts up decent numbers. As of today, according to boards I have seen, he might be there when the Packers pick at 15, but I don't see that as the case come April 27th!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

So........ Lukas Van Ness is a beast....

Did you see this decleater? Against Peter Skoronski no less!

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I like Badgers Nick Herbig too. That guy has a motor that goes and goes. The Badgers have consistently put LB's in the NFL, sadly the Packers only jumped in on Vince Beigel.

 

[tynimiller]

Did you see this decleater? Against Peter Skoronski no less!

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I like Badgers Nick Herbig too. That guy has a motor that goes and goes. The Badgers have consistently put LB's in the NFL, sadly the Packers only jumped in on Vince Beigel.

Yup.

I shared it in his quick blurb of mine but the SCARY thing is this dude wasn't even a "starter" formally....yet produced above many across the nation!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I remember really liking Logan Wilson in the 2020 draft, back when the Packers needed LB's. Just saw this on someone's Twitter feed....yup...still like him!

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[tynimiller]

I remember really liking Logan Wilson in the 2020 draft, back when the Packers needed LB's. Just saw this on someone's Twitter feed....yup...still like him!

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Strong moving with steam LB is going to do that against nearly EVERY slow not up to steam OL honestly in the NFL.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

@tynimiller

You are Gute and on the clock at pick #15...these guys are there, who do you pick?

- Lucas Van Ness
- Michael Mayer
- Quentin Johnston
- Peter Skoronski
- Devon Witherspoon

I was going to throw in Brian Branch, but I'm certain he won't be on the board.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Strong moving with steam LB is going to do that against nearly EVERY slow not up to steam OL honestly in the NFL.

Oh I think Linderbaum was up to his steam, but yeah, he was running sideways to Wilson and kind of tried to block Wilson or at minimum, trying to keep him from running him over. Still a fun collision to watch.

 

[Magooch]

Haven't seen the whole thing so might be remembering it wrong but I believe the Athletic actually mocked Van Ness to us in their most recent draft...

 

[tynimiller]

Haven't seen the whole thing so might be remembering it wrong but I believe the Athletic actually mocked Van Ness to us in their most recent draft...

A few I've seen have him to us more and more. I love when a guy like that which a month ago many thought I was nuts for seeing a top 50 when many said 3rd round earliest...trust me this kid is going to go in the first 50 I have ZERO doubt unless something crazy comes out in testing or medicals.

 

[tynimiller]

@tynimiller

You are Gute and on the clock at pick #15...these guys are there, who do you pick?

- Lucas Van Ness
- Michael Mayer
- Quentin Johnston
- Peter Skoronski
- Devon Witherspoon

I was going to throw in Brian Branch, but I'm certain he won't be on the board.

In short: if Rodgers isn't here I go Van Ness, if he is I go Mayer or Skoronski if you limit my choices to JUST THOSE 5


long respones:

Good chance Branch is there because realistically the following has already occurred:

3 or most likely 4 QBs gone
Will Anderson 100% gone
Jalen Carter 100% gone
Minimum one tackle and two CBs will be gone
Historical trends tell us probably another two EDGE guys (Murphy is one for sure)

We are quickly closing in on 11 already...add in recent trends say one WR goes...12...Breese has as much of a chance at a high pick as Branch and you got another Tackle most likely gone in Paris Johnson.

I have personally 10-12 guys I 100% believe will be gone...these are NOT my personal top prospects but the guys I think are gone:

QB - Stroud, Young, Levis, Richardson (4)
EDGE - Anderson, Murphy, (6)
CB - Joey Porter Jr + either Gonzalez OR Cam Smith (8)
DL - Carter (9)
OT - Skoronski and Johnson (11) (despite me believing Broderick Jones is second best OT prospect behind Paris Johnson)

Also I'm assuming my phone is silent and no trade offers in your scenario.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

In short: if Rodgers isn't here I go Van Ness, if he is I go Mayer or Skoronski if you limit my choices to JUST THOSE 5


long respones:

Good chance Branch is there because realistically the following has already occurred:

3 or most likely 4 QBs gone
Will Anderson 100% gone
Jalen Carter 100% gone
Minimum one tackle and two CBs will be gone
Historical trends tell us probably another two EDGE guys (Murphy is one for sure)

We are quickly closing in on 11 already...add in recent trends say one WR goes...12...Breese has as much of a chance at a high pick as Branch and you got another Tackle most likely gone in Paris Johnson.

I have personally 10-12 guys I 100% believe will be gone...these are NOT my personal top prospects but the guys I think are gone:

QB - Stroud, Young, Levis, Richardson (4)
EDGE - Anderson, Murphy, (6)
CB - Joey Porter Jr + either Gonzalez OR Cam Smith (8)
DL - Carter (9)
OT - Skoronski and Johnson (11) (despite me believing Broderick Jones is second best OT prospect behind Paris Johnson)

Also I'm assuming my phone is silent and no trade offers in your scenario.

Good guesses and with trades, FA's, injuries and of course, the combine....between now and the draft, there will be guys moving up and down. If my memory is correct, I think after the 2018 season the Packers had the 12th pick in the 2019 draft. There was a lot of talk about TJ Hochenson being there for the Packers and was 12 too early to take him? Well, turned out that the Lions took him with the 8th pick. 15 is a spot where you probably won't expect to see any predicted top 5 fall to, but potentially a top 10.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

If the Packers think they're going to be starting a young QB soon, then I'd go Johnston. We've seen the enormous impact a great receiving corps has on a young QB; however, I'm fully expecting Gute to go edge or safety with that first pick (probably after trading down).

I get that I'm the odd man out on this but Mayer just doesn't seem like he's worth a first-round pick. He's sure-handed and a good blocker but he lacks the dynamic athleticism the best TEs have and I don't want to spend a first round pick on a guy that will, at best, be the 6th best TE in the NFL.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A few I've seen have him to us more and more. I love when a guy like that which a month ago many thought I was nuts for seeing a top 50 when many said 3rd round earliest...trust me this kid is going to go in the first 50 I have ZERO doubt unless something crazy comes out in testing or medicals.

I thought the same thing of TJ Watt. He and Van Ness are actually a bit similar in size (Van Ness heavier) and the way that they came out of nowhere. Many thought Watt was being over rated due to his name. Turns out he was the real deal.

 

[tynimiller]

If the Packers think they're going to be starting a young QB soon, then I'd go Johnston. We've seen the enormous impact a great receiving corps has on a young QB; however, I'm fully expecting Gute to go edge or safety with that first pick (probably after trading down).

I get that I'm the odd man out on this but Mayer just doesn't seem like he's worth a first-round pick. He's sure-handed and a good blocker but he lacks the dynamic athleticism the best TEs have and I don't want to spend a first round pick on a guy that will, at best, be the 6th best TE in the NFL.

You’re not odd man out, #15 is tough to justify on a TE this day and age.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I know I said this before too but it was always going to be difficult to assemble a team in 2022/23 that was as talented as the team we had in 2021/22...and in the same way I think it will be difficult to bring back some of "Rodgers' guys" while putting together a team for 23/24 that is as talented as 21/22 or even 22/23. Maybe a year of development for our young WRs and stuff will lead to improvements but frankly if the 21/22 team wasn't good enough and the 22/23 team REALLY wasn't good enough then it's hard for me to envision a scenario - even if Rodgers hypothetically returned to MVP-level play - where our 23/24 team is a serious Super Bowl contender.

I guess the Packers could be a legit Super Bowl contender if Watson and Doubs develop into decent #1 and #2 receivers capable of contributing on a consistent basis as well as the defense performing up to potential.

 

[Todd Princl]

If the Packers think they're going to be starting a young QB soon, then I'd go Johnston. We've seen the enormous impact a great receiving corps has on a young QB; however, I'm fully expecting Gute to go edge or safety with that first pick (probably after trading down).

I get that I'm the odd man out on this but Mayer just doesn't seem like he's worth a first-round pick. He's sure-handed and a good blocker but he lacks the dynamic athleticism the best TEs have and I don't want to spend a first round pick on a guy that will, at best, be the 6th best TE in the NFL.

I agree with your assessment of a strong wideout core for a young qb.
Heck I would even draft Bijan Robinson at 15 as he would also help take pressure off Love. If Rodgers leaves I see no sense keeping Aaron Jones. I can see trading him. We would otherwise have to extend him.
I think Robinson will be very special.
If Johnson is there at 15 you don’t even think twice.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If Rodgers leaves I see no sense keeping Aaron Jones. I can see trading him.

They might not know what Rodgers is doing, before Jones's $7M roster bonus kicks in (3/17/2023). Once that kicks in, he is all but a lock to be a Packer in 2023. I would hope that they can agree to a restructure with Jones.