2023 Draft Talk

[Deleted member 6794]

As someone who has been so critical of the Love selection, I would think that you of all people, would be wanting to see if you are actually right and he was a wasted pick? Maybe you fear that if he did play, he would prove you and others wrong?

As I have mentioned repeatedly I would like the Packers to start Love once they're eliminated from the playoffs.

It's ridiculous to suggest that I want Love to fail because I didn't like the pick. I would love for him to become the team's next HOF quarterback. Three years in, he has been a wasted pick so far though.

So yes, there is some truth to how important playing Love is during games that have no meaning for the season and a potential ton of meaning for the Packers future.

As long as the Packers have a shot at the playoffs I don't consider those games as meaningless though.

 

[Magooch]

So by my count currently we would be set to pick 11th.

ESPN's FPI is currently projecting us to pick 14th overall.
By their measure - average draft position of 13.8, with a 0.7% chance to earn a top-5 pick and a 16.3% chance to earn a top-10 pick.

In looking at the Mock Draft Database's consensus "big board," here are some players who might be around that 13-14 spot who could perhaps fill a need for us:
Jordan Addison - WR - USC - #9
Peter Skoronski - OT - Northwestern - #14
Paris Johnson Jr. - OT - OSU - #16
Michael Mayer - TE - ND - #18
Jaxon Smith-Njigba - WR - OSU - #19

I wouldn't have too many complaints with many of those but at the same time depending on how things fall I wouldn't be too surprised if we ended up trading down; a pick in the 12-14 range can perhaps net you two late firsts (might need to add a mid-late round pick on our side for balance but still) and that could work out in our favor too. You could potentially end up with two out of some guys like Antonio Johnson (S, TAMU), O'Cyrus Torrence (IOL, UF), Nolan Smith (EDGE, UGA), BJ Ojulari (EDGE, LSU), etc...

(FWIW, their consensus mock draft also presently has us at #11 and picking Jordan Addison)

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

0.7% chance to earn a top-5 pick

That surprises me, although the Packers win against the Bears didn't help. Also, another win, would probably seal that they aren't picking in top 5. Quite a few of the teams with worse records still play each other. The Bears have a very tough schedule remaining, so I don't see moving past them.

 

[tynimiller]

So by my count currently we would be set to pick 11th.

ESPN's FPI is currently projecting us to pick 14th overall.
By their measure - average draft position of 13.8, with a 0.7% chance to earn a top-5 pick and a 16.3% chance to earn a top-10 pick.

In looking at the Mock Draft Database's consensus "big board," here are some players who might be around that 13-14 spot who could perhaps fill a need for us:
Jordan Addison - WR - USC - #9
Peter Skoronski - OT - Northwestern - #14
Paris Johnson Jr. - OT - OSU - #16
Michael Mayer - TE - ND - #18
Jaxon Smith-Njigba - WR - OSU - #19

I wouldn't have too many complaints with many of those but at the same time depending on how things fall I wouldn't be too surprised if we ended up trading down; a pick in the 12-14 range can perhaps net you two late firsts (might need to add a mid-late round pick on our side for balance but still) and that could work out in our favor too. You could potentially end up with two out of some guys like Antonio Johnson (S, TAMU), O'Cyrus Torrence (IOL, UF), Nolan Smith (EDGE, UGA), BJ Ojulari (EDGE, LSU), etc...

(FWIW, their consensus mock draft also presently has us at #11 and picking Jordan Addison)

I am not a JSN fan. It isn't that I don't think he is good or will be a solid pick potentially...and I could change my tune on him as I truly deep dive into him. Personally I have him as WR3 right now behind the Johnston kid.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

We don't need WR in first round. Watson and Doubs are superstars in the making.
I think we sign a middle of the road veteran and potentially resign Lazard and maybe draft 1 in the 4-6 round area

Round 1&2 should be S and OT not necessarily in that order depending who's available.
Move Rasul Dauglass to 1 of the safety positions for next season.
He us a competitor and a solid tackler plus has a nose for the ball.

Round 2&3 I take another OT, G, S or TE if a all rounder band *** is available.
Round 3 depending on round 1-2.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well the good news for the Packers, they don't have to use the high pick for a QB, since they already have Love. Had they not drafted Love, this would be the year that they would be possibly be pulling the trigger on #12's potential replacement.

 

[OldSchool101]

You forgot to mention finishing 4-13 and having one of the top 2 or 3 picks in the first 6 rounds.

We played the Bears for gosh sakes. Why… They’re so bad
they’ll ruin your draft placing

 

[OldSchool101]

It's ridiculous to suggest that I want Love to fail because I didn't like the pick. I would love for him to become the team's next HOF quarterback. Three years in, he has been a wasted pick so far though.

That is true from a short term production perspective.
On the other side, the QB position is one that you often don’t get meaningful results until they are on their second contract. Especially when you’re brought in behind a HOF player. Then, when developed, it can produce more than an entire teams draft

We don't need WR in first round.

That’s exactly why we’ll finally go WR! It’s exactly like Gutey to go after the most controversial choice

 

[tynimiller]

We don't need WR in first round. Watson and Doubs are superstars in the making.
I think we sign a middle of the road veteran and potentially resign Lazard and maybe draft 1 in the 4-6 round area

Round 1&2 should be S and OT not necessarily in that order depending who's available.
Move Rasul Dauglass to 1 of the safety positions for next season.
He us a competitor and a solid tackler plus has a nose for the ball.

Round 2&3 I take another OT, G, S or TE if a all rounder band *** is available.
Round 3 depending on round 1-2.

I don’t disagree, I personally would love to see a Rome Odunze type in the third if he makes it or a few others.

IMO first two picks I want a true blue chipper of an OT or S out of one of the picks. If Mayer is there when we pick I cannot pass him.

 

[Magooch]

I wouldn’t be upset at all if we drafted a first round WR, but if I had my druthers my preference is probably to add a veteran WR and draft Mayer to start at TE.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We played the Bears for gosh sakes. Why… They’re so bad
they’ll ruin your draft placing

Hate to admit it, but I was pulling for the Bears, as I am sure some of their die hard fans were pulling for the Packers. I get it, you don't want to "throw" games, but I just don't see the value in not playing Love and other players that will be with the team in 2023. This 2022 Packer Team is not a Super Bowl caliber team and 25% of the current roster won't even be with them next season.

 

[tynimiller]

I wouldn’t be upset at all if we drafted a first round WR, but if I had my druthers my preference is probably to add a veteran WR and draft Mayer to start at TE.

So my DREAM scenario is we earn a pick somewhere before the Falcons and the Colts. A QB slips to us that they don't want to risk losing, even a small first round trade of three or four spots will pick us up an additional Top 100 pick and probably a Day 3....Mayer is still there...we proceed to see Skinner, Joseph or a top FLIGHT Safety at the top of the second OR a starting caliber OT with swing inside athleticism...we enter the third round with most likely two picks, a starting TE out the gate and a starting S or OT.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We don't need WR in first round. Watson and Doubs are superstars in the making.

While it seems Watson is a superstar in the making Doubs has still a long way to go to get there.

On the other side, the QB position is one that you often don’t get meaningful results until they are on their second contract.

Name just a single quarterback who ended up starring for the franchise that drafted him after having no impact over his rookie deal.

 

[OldSchool101]

Name just a single quarterback who ended up starring for the franchise that drafted him after having no impact over his rookie At that point in Aaron Rodgers career? he had given us little to nothing for value from a guy selected ahead of Jordan.

Aaron Rodgers won 6 contests in his first 4 seasons.

Maybe you could remind everyone where his draft placing was??
so By your own standard, #12 was a complete failure and the GM who drafted him should’ve been immediately fired.
So, Don’t try out for GM. If you do Please go to Minneapolis first!

Oh. Forgot to answer your question. Here’s an entire list of late bloomers at the QB position. Many of them had very lucrative and successful careers well after their Rookie contract was long gone. ZERO of these players failed to log snaps in preseason or regular season during their Rookie campaign. Thus, I’d argue it to be factual that Jordan Love is a College Junior draftee turned Redshirt Sophomore Pro. Anyone not accounting for that fact is quick to condemn and, I’d add, either doesn’t follow the draft selection or purely has an axe to grind (or both)

NFL late bloomer QBs

Stacker profiles the quarterbacks who got late jumps in hitting their strides. The timeline ranges from the 1930s to today.

stacker.com

 

[Mondio]

Lots of QBs are late bloomers, but I think his point that I think you missed. Almost every one of those late bloomers either played extensively early for the team that drafted them, or more often, came on strong when the went somewhere else.

 

[OldSchool101]

Lots of QBs are late bloomers, but I think his point that I think you missed. Almost every one of those late bloomers either played extensively early for the team that drafted them, or more often, came on strong when the went somewhere else.

Disagree. Read the entire article, because it’s obvious you didn’t.
Also. We didn’t even discuss what teams they played for. That wasn’t a point either myself or Captain made at any time.

 

[Mondio]

Disagree. Read the entire article, because it’s obvious you didn’t.
Also. We didn’t even discuss what teams they played for. That wasn’t a point either myself or Captain made at any time.

Ok, I’ll let you two have your spat. I thought it was quite obvious which team they played for was being discussed when he said this

Name just a single quarterback who ended up starring for the franchise that drafted him after having no impact over his rookie deal.

I took that to mean he was talking about qbs that did nothing over a rookie contract, then became a star for the team that drafted him in his 2nd contract.

Maybe this is why I read articles and come to different conclusions than you?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Aaron Rodgers won 6 contests in his first 4 seasons.

Maybe you could remind everyone where his draft placing was??
so By your own standard, #12 was a complete failure and the GM who drafted him should’ve been immediately fired.
So, Don’t try out for GM. If you do Please go to Minneapolis first!

First of all we all know that Rodgers is a huge exception to the rule. I wasn't aware I had to state that for you once again.

In addition, you need to realize that the landscape for quarterbacks being drafted completely changed in 2011 with the rookie wage scale being implemented.

Teams want to benefit from having a starter on a cheap rookie deal for as many seasons as possible. The Packers blew that opportunity with Love already.

Oh. Forgot to answer your question. Here’s an entire list of late bloomers at the QB position. Many of them had very lucrative and successful careers well after their Rookie contract was long gone. ZERO of these players failed to log snaps in preseason or regular season during their Rookie campaign. Thus, I’d argue it to be factual that Jordan Love is a College Junior draftee turned Redshirt Sophomore Pro. Anyone not accounting for that fact is quick to condemn and, I’d add, either doesn’t follow the draft selection or purely has an axe to grind (or both)

Once again, it was predictable that Love won't play any snaps during his rookie season as well as not become a starter during his rookie deal.

That has been the main reason why I have complained about his selection.

Disagree. Read the entire article, because it’s obvious you didn’t.
Also. We didn’t even discuss what teams they played for. That wasn’t a point either myself or Captain made at any time.

As Mondio correctly pointed out I was talking about QBs excelling for the teams that drafted them.

 

[tynimiller]

Then you better start pulling for the Packers to lose.

Tonight's matchup between the Rams and the Raiders could help the Packers in the draft. Rams are so beat up that there is a chance Baker Mayfield plays, after just arriving on Tuesday and practicing for the 1st time with the team yesterday.

Personally I think you have to be in the first 12 picks presently to have a shot at him...some are thinking his position will drag him lower I don't. Right now I sense the following are the only clear favorites to go before him:

Will Anderson EDGE
CJ Stroud QB
Bryce Young QB
Jalen Carter DL
Myles Murphy EDGE

I think a CB goes before him whether that ends up being Kelee Ringo or Joey Porter Jr or Cam Smith....
I also think possibly two OTs go out of Skoronski, Johnson and Jones...

That is seven maybe eight guys.....

Does Will Levis elevate and as the 3rd QB go as well in top ten....maybe

Does either Jordan Addison or Quentin Johnston start a WR run?

The route for a Mayer to be there at 11 or 12 is very possible...but I'm also not hesitating to grab him regardless of where I pick.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Once again, it was predictable that Love won't play any snaps during his rookie season as well as not become a starter during his rookie deal.

While I agree that it was predictable and expected, that Love wouldn't get much playing time his rookie season (unless Rodgers got injured), beyond that was a guessing game and was not "predictable". You seem to forget about Rodgers wavering about playing football and/or playing for the Packers, the last 2 seasons. Heck, we don't know if he will be back next season either, which will be Love's 4th year on his rookie deal. While expensive, the Packers can also still exercise the 5th year option on Love for 2024. So don't start blowing that victory horn too early, because what Rodgers is doing, has not been as predictable as you want to make it sound.

 

[OldSchool101]

Ok, I’ll let you two have your spat. I thought it was quite obvious which team they played for was being discussed when he said this


I took that to mean he was talking about qbs that did nothing over a rookie contract, then became a star for the team that drafted him in his 2nd contract.

Maybe this is why I read articles and come to different conclusions than you?

either way Mondio. Captain and yourself largely underestimated how many players have been in this league and the variety of ways they’ve won. Just because our backup QB didn’t start in his 2nd full season doesn't declare him a failure. Let the cards play out.

As far as ones that were traded and had lucrative careers. Some of those QB got traded for good trade capital. The originating teams lost nothing! Some QB’s went on to Probowls or First team declarations or even Superbowls. We don’t know yet what the plan is. He could very easily stay on board and start in 2025. We could trade him for draft selections. Etc.. in the meantime he likely gets better with time.

He thinks Love was a wasted draft selection and temporarily you could argue he’s right. Maybe he is maybe he isn’t. Shouldn’t we wait until he plays or see what draft picks we get to determine that? i know it’s a weird deal, but #12 is a complicated fella and I wouldn’t **** him off

 

[Mondio]

either way Mondio. Captain and yourself largely underestimated how many players have been in this league and the variety of ways they’ve won. Just because our backup QB didn’t start in his 2nd full season doesn't declare him a failure. Let the cards play out.

As far as ones that were traded and had lucrative careers. Some of those QB got traded for good trade capital. The originating teams lost nothing! Some QB’s went on to Probowls or First team declarations or even Superbowls. We don’t know yet what the plan is. He could very easily stay on board and start in 2025. We could trade him for draft selections. Etc.. in the meantime he likely gets better with time.

He thinks Love was a wasted draft selection and temporarily you could argue he’s right. Maybe he is maybe he isn’t. Shouldn’t we wait until he plays or see what draft picks we get to determine that? i know it’s a weird deal, but #12 is a complicated fella and I wouldn’t **** him off

you're making a lot of assumptions about me. I was just pointing out something you appeared to have missed in your rebuttal. I've said all I needed to say about Love when he was drafted, it might surprise you to find out, I didn't declare the pick or the QB a failure.

 

[OldSchool101]

you're making a lot of assumptions about me. I was just pointing out something you appeared to have missed in your rebuttal. I've said all I needed to say about Love when he was drafted, it might surprise you to find out, I didn't declare the pick or the QB a failure

Its fine.

You can set flowers down next to a murder scene 2 weeks later and I promise you you’ll get investigated.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You seem to forget about Rodgers wavering about playing football and/or playing for the Packers, the last 2 seasons. Heck, we don't know if he will be back next season either, which will be Love's 4th year on his rookie deal. While expensive, the Packers can also still exercise the 5th year option on Love for 2024. So don't start blowing that victory horn too early, because what Rodgers is doing, has not been as predictable as you want to make it sound.

As I have mentioned on a lot of occasions Rodgers never mentioned anything about wanting to retire or being traded before Love was drafted. You and most others conveniently ignore that though. I agree it's too early to make a final evaluation about the pick but so far it has played out exactly as I expected.

Captain and yourself largely underestimated how many players have been in this league and the variety of ways they’ve won.

Once again, you ignore the fact that I was talking about having success for the team that drafted those quarterbacks. It seems David Garrard is the only one on that list who ended up "excelling" for the franchise that selected him after not having a ton of success during his "rookie deal".

I have a different definition of a winning quarterback though.

He thinks Love was a wasted draft selection and temporarily you could argue he’s right. Maybe he is maybe he isn’t. Shouldn’t we wait until he plays or see what draft picks we get to determine that?

As mentioned above there's still no reason to make a final evaluation of the Love pick. The early returns are terrible though.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As I have mentioned on a lot of occasions Rodgers never mentioned anything about wanting to retire or being traded

Not publicly, no, you are correct.

I agree it's too early to make a final evaluation about the pick

Glad we can agree on something.