2017 Draft/FA Needs

[brandon2348]

when you have to start connecting the words "Ted Thompson" to "FA wheeling and dealing".

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[PackerDNA]

And......have averaged picking from the 26th-27th spot in the last 7 drafts.

Funny, but the Patriots pick lower than us pretty much every year. They seem to do fine.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Funny, but the Patriots pick lower than us pretty much every year. They seem to do fine.

I can't pretend to follow the progress of the Patriots draft picks, but you also have to factor in that they have a GM who uses more methods to obtain players than TT does.

 

[PikeBadger]

Come in off of the ledge, brandon2348... it's warm and safe in here. TT hasn't made any moves, yet, and is busy for the next week at the Combine in Indy.

The D personnel/talent won't look nearly as bad once he's done with his usual FA wheeling & dealing and the draft. (damn, even I laughed as I typed FA wheeling & dealing). I'm not expecting the D to quickly become the team's strength but he can't possibly leave it as bad as it appears right now.

Enjoy the combine and free agency, there's always hope (until Sept. 3rd).

Agree. It's a long ways to September. If the roster looked like this on Labor Day I'd be worried, but it won't, so I'm not.

 

[PackerDNA]

I can't pretend to follow the progress of the Patriots draft picks, but you also have to factor in that they have a GM who uses more methods to obtain players than TT does.

It's not so much who they've picked, or in comparison to who we've picked. Consistently picking late is just another excuse.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's not so much who they've picked, or in comparison to who we've picked. Consistently picking late is just another excuse.

Not really an excuse at all, but a fact. The NFL draft order is meant to keep teams competitive. Picking consistently at the end of each round for consecutive years is most likely going to provide a team with less talent during that time period. Remember, this isn't just round #1 that the Packers pick 4th from last. How do you make up for that? You pick smart and use all of the other tools available to acquire talent.

 

[PackerDNA]

Not really an excuse at all, but a fact. The NFL draft order is meant to keep teams competitive. Picking consistently at the end of each round for consecutive years is most likely going to provide a team with less talent during that time period. Remember, this isn't just round #1 that the Packers pick 4th from last. How do you make up for that? You pick smart and use all of the other tools available to acquire talent.

Back to my post that you first replied to. End with bolded section of your post.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Back to my post that you first replied to. End with bolded section of your post.

Lost you and maybe we are in agreement? IMO, picking towards the end of every round consistently puts a team in a situation of potentially drafting lesser talent. Over an extended period of time, that can begin to catch up. A team like the Patriots makes up for that by making good use of other ways to obtain players. While some might call picking late in every round an "excuse", its a fact for the Packers. An "excuse" would be saying that it is the only method TT can use, thus its hard to stay competitive. That is an excuse I wouldn't agree with.

 

[brandon2348]

It sucks drafting in the back every year but TT still gets 3 top 100 players if he does it right. That should be the focus. When he jumps off the reservation and reaches for guys like Kyhri Thornton, Frakrell and Rollins then thats on him. Bradford was a reach too but was a 4th.

I think maybe its just time to embrace that the defense is gonna be garbage for the remainder of TT's time in GB Weve been sitting around here for six years talking about "fixing the defense" and now were banking on him using free agency. Not good.

I wouldnt be opposed to him just focusing on what he does well and making the offense the highest scoring of all time and trying to win that way. There are no elite defenses right now. I feel it might be are only chance.

 

[PackerDNA]

No more 'experiments'. No more reaches, or square peg into round holes position changers. Be aggressive, move up, get players who step in and have an impact from day one.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Not really an excuse at all, but a fact. The NFL draft order is meant to keep teams competitive. Picking consistently at the end of each round for consecutive years is most likely going to provide a team with less talent during that time period. Remember, this isn't just round #1 that the Packers pick 4th from last. How do you make up for that? You pick smart and use all of the other tools available to acquire talent.

Picking late doesn't really matter that much, otherwise the teams that pick at the top wouldn't always be picking at the top year after year, yet there they are (Rams, Lions, Browns, Jets, etc.) and the teams that pick at the back wouldn't always be picking at the back, yet there are teams that consistently are in the back of the draft (Pats, Packers, Steelers, Seattle). Picking at the back is an excuse that doesn't really stand up to history.

 

[brandon2348]

No more 'experiments'. No more reaches, or square peg into round holes position changers. Be aggressive, move up, get players who step in and have an impact from day one.

The only draft pick on defense in recent years i really got excited about when he was drafted was HaHa and he was a "plug and play". Most have left me scratching my head. I did like Martinez for where he was picked but thats about it.

 

[brandon2348]

No more 'experiments'. No more reaches, or square peg into round holes position changers. Be aggressive, move up, get players who step in and have an impact from day one.

Even if this is done there is still some "cumaltive damage" from poor choices over the last 5 year so he is gonna need to use some free agency in the interim to keep things propped up.

 

[brandon2348]

Whats funny too is this "best player on the board" crap. He has been "reaching" all over that board to fill holes because he is so adamant about not using free agency.

The Pats truley stick to playing the board. They get more "value over time". Thats the difference.

 

[PackerDNA]

Picking late doesn't really matter that much, otherwise the teams that pick at the top wouldn't always be picking at the top year after year, yet there they are (Rams, Lions, Browns, Jets, etc.) and the teams that pick at the back wouldn't always be picking at the back, yet there are teams that consistently are in the back of the draft (Pats, Packers, Steelers, Seattle). Picking at the back is an excuse that doesn't really stand up to history.

Ahh, an interesting angle you have there.
What say you, Pokerbrat2000?

 

[Mondio]

There's much more to winning and losing than the single items every body wants to debate to death. it ALL matters. Draft position doesn't dictate success or failure, but I'd sure love the first crack at picking "my" players in every round before being chosen by everyone else. I'd hate to be the team picking first though, because that's a ****** season to sit thru.

Those teams are often unstable as well. Rotation at the GM, rotation at coaches, at philosophies, what types of players each new front office wants, or coach wants. How to use them, then toss in the normal aging and injury of the current roster and the thousand other variables that affect each year and bad contracts signed by the previous guy and on and on and on.

It's the same reason we see an offensive line built with mostly low round draft picks, but all available and all together with the same coaches for a couple seasons grow into one of the best and we see other position groups or teams that have talented guys that are in their 3rd different offensive philosphy or have a new guy playing next to them every week struggle. of course continuity only helps if you're good, but what determines if you're good? just winning? even Bill B. didn't win all the time. so many variables.

when a guy like Sam shields goes undrafted or Tom Brady lasts till practially the end of the draft, of course you can pick good players in every round. But when you're considering all the measurables and then all the immesurables and toss in the human factor and you have to grade guys out. injury history, attitude, young transgressions, mental toughness, the system they played in collegiately, coaching, players next to them, the conference they were in, etc all have to be judged and then you take measurable risks in each round trying to meet what you're going to pay, what you have to do to get them to where you need to be, their eventual guessed ceiling, and how it fits with your scheme puts a lot of players on a similar "round" for a lot of teams.

no kidding their are more than 2 good players taken in the 2nd round, but if I trust my evaluation and I have 15 first round grades on guys, and I don't pick till almost the 2nd round. I'm basically picking from my 2nd round pool in the first. I'd rather be able to pick one of those 15.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Ahh, an interesting angle you have there.
What say you, Pokerbrat2000?

Don't need too.....Mondio already pretty much said what I would say. Thanks Mondio

But I will repeat, TT picking late in every round for the past 7 years has been a disadvantage to him and the Packers, but it still should not prevent him from using other ways to acquire talent.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Goodnight! If the Packers need to rebuild coming off 10-6 and an NFCCG appearance, then how many teams DON'T need to build? Like 4?

There's absolutely no doubt the defense needs to be significantly improved over last season's unit.

The direction of the defense? Do you think it will be worse in 17 than it was last year?

The Packers defense has to perform on a way better level than in 2016 for the team to be considered a Super Bowl contender. The status quo from last season won't cut it this time around.

I can't pretend to follow the progress of the Patriots draft picks, but you also have to factor in that they have a GM who uses more methods to obtain players than TT does.

It is for sure a disadvante drafting late in every single round but it's possible to make up for it by smartly using free agency and trades to improve the roster. Unfortunately Thompson is way too reluctant to use other methods though.

 

[Mondio]

Don't need too.....Mondio already pretty much said what I would say. Thanks Mondio

But I will repeat, TT picking late in every round for the past 7 years has been a disadvantage to him and the Packers, but it still should not prevent him from using other ways to acquire talent.

Great minds and all...

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Great minds and all...

and......probably both of us were involved in enough "School yard picks" to know how teams form as the talent pool dwindles. I can proudly say I was never "that guy", you know.....the last one to be picked, not that there is anything wrong with that, everyone gets to play!

 

[Dantés]

So players that have been taken off the market via the tag or contract so far include:

• L. Bell, RB, Steelers
• K. Short, DT, Panthers
• E. Berry, S, Chiefs
• K. Cousins, QB, Redskins
• C. Jones, EDGE, Cardinals
• M. Ingram, EDGE, Chargers
• J. Pierre-Paul, EDGE, Giants
• T. Johnson, CB, Rams

Additionally, reports indicate that there is a better than 50% change that A.J. Bouye is resigned before the market opens.

At EDGE, this leaves the market pretty well decimated. Sheard should be out there, but he's really the only one who you look at and think he might be able to start. To me, the moves made at the position ratchet up the pressure to retain Perry, but maybe he isn't a guy they want to pay.

At corner, Bouye, Gilmore, Ryan, Amukamara, Kirkpatrick, and Claiborne are all still slated to hit FA, though I would be surprised if Bouye actually got there. Although it might end up being the case that to keep Bouye, the Texans cut Joseph who could be a decent option himself.

Players at other positions who should be available and could really help the Packers include Calais Campbell, Dont'a Hightower, Johnathan Hankins, Zach Brown, and Chris Baker. We will see how it unfolds.

 

[PikeBadger]

Whats funny too is this "best player on the board" crap. He has been "reaching" all over that board to fill holes because he is so adamant about not using free agency.

The Pats truley stick to playing the board. They get more "value over time". Thats the difference.

Really??? You've seen Thompson's draft board? Send us the pic of that please. I'd be fascinated to see it.

While you're at it, send me the Patriots board too. I'd like to see an analysis done on their draft picks compared to ours.

I think where Belichick truly excels is in parlaying draft picks and players into more draft picks. I really have no idea what his "hit/miss" rate is on his picks or there associated value.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

At EDGE, this leaves the market pretty well decimated. Sheard should be out there, but he's really the only one who you look at and think he might be able to start. To me, the moves made at the position ratchet up the pressure to retain Perry, but maybe he isn't a guy they want to pay.

I agree that Perry is most likely the best edge rusher set to become a free agent and the Packers would be smart to re-sign him. John Simon might be a decent option to add in free agency.

 

[Dantés]

I agree that Perry is most likely the best edge rusher set to become a free agent and the Packers would be smart to re-sign him. John Sinon might be a decent option to add in free agency.

I forgot about him. He would at least bring some capability against the run. If they allow Perry to walk, they had better look hard at guys like Simon, Sheard, or even Andre Branch. They will need the help.

 

[PackerDNA]

I agree that Perry is most likely the best edge rusher set to become a free agent and the Packers would be smart to re-sign him. John Sinon might be a decent option to add in free agency.

Did you mean Simon of the Texans? Got to see quite a bit of him this season; definitely worth a long look.