2016 Jordy is Back, will the rest step up?

[easyk83]

It´s not the best judgement of value but it´s close to guaranteed that he would have signed somewhere else if the Packers didn´t offer him $10 million a season.

Is he worth the same contract as Jordy Nelson? Take away Randall Cobb and Jordy Nelson still plays like a number one receiver. Take away Aaron Rodgers and Jordy still makes big plays even with badly thrown balls. Can the same be said for Randall? I'm sure he would have signed somewhere else, and if that team didn't have the right kind of talent he'd be on the hot seat right now as an overpaid FA acquisition.

He's not just a system guy, but he needs a certain level of talent around him for him to play at his best. I'd rather pay Cobb type money to a guy who really could be the number 1 if needed and who really could replace Jordy Nelson down the road.

 

[Wynnebeck]

I swear it's like people forget going into the 2014 season, Cobb was consistently being placed near the top of lists for best slot receivers in NFL with the likes of Edelman and co. However, his position only truly shines when he has a deep threat WR to take pressure off of him and give him space to work. I think he's worth every penny and a down year for the entire team offensively is not a good litmus test on whether you think he's good or not. I expect Jordy coming back will in turn aid Cobb's production.

With the coaching staff wanting to move Matthews outside again and Peppers hopefully returning for another season I don't see the need to spend a first-rounder on the position.

Well this was before Peppers declared he wanted to come back so I was predicating my statement on the chance that Peppers would leave. Now that he's probably going to return, I'm fine with going TE or ILB for the first round even though all signs point to Packers making a play on Henry.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Is he worth the same contract as Jordy Nelson? Take away Randall Cobb and Jordy Nelson still plays like a number one receiver. Take away Aaron Rodgers and Jordy still makes big plays even with badly thrown balls. Can the same be said for Randall? I'm sure he would have signed somewhere else, and if that team didn't have the right kind of talent he'd be on the hot seat right now as an overpaid FA acquisition.

He's not just a system guy, but he needs a certain level of talent around him for him to play at his best. I'd rather pay Cobb type money to a guy who really could be the number 1 if needed and who really could replace Jordy Nelson down the road.

As I´ve said before I understand fans wondering about Cobb being worth $10 million a year after last season. Coming of a terrific year in 2014 it was the right decision to re-sign him even though it took a pretty huge contract to get it done.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm not going to go dig up the thread and posts, but I remember some really happy fans last year when the Packers re-signed Cobb. Even articles like the one below talked about the Packers needing Cobb and being a key piece in the system they use.

Did Cobb have a $10M 2015 season? No. Is Cobb better with Jordy? Yes. But I still have a hard time using this last season as the only measuring stick of Cobb and his future value to the Green Bay Packers.

Even Clay Matthews had an "off 2015" season for him, is he still worth what we pay him?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ers-latest-contract-details-comments-reaction

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Well this was before Peppers declared he wanted to come back so I was predicating my statement on the chance that Peppers would leave. Now that he's probably going to return, I'm fine with going TE or ILB for the first round even though all signs point to Packers making a play on Henry.

I haven´t seen any reports suggesting Peppers is leaning towards returning for another season so far, got a link to one of it???

 

[Mondio]

I think last year everyone looked a lot worse than they actually "are" because EVERYONE was playing just a little less than they're capable of at various points throughout the season. I think it affected everyone, from Cobb to Rodgers and all along that offensive line etc. a couple things done a bit better and i think everything is different. Cobb has never had "great" hands IMO, but he has always made big plays. THey were there to be made again this year and either Rodgers got hit or had to take his eyes off him too soon, he didn't deliver a good ball or Cobb dropped it. It seemed like there was a breakdown somewhere, consistently all year long.

 

[easyk83]

As I´ve said before I understand fans wondering about Cobb being worth $10 million a year after last season. Coming of a terrific year in 2014 it was the right decision to re-sign him even though it took a pretty huge contract to get it done.

It's not just that, comparable slot receivers aren't earning close to what Cobb is earning. I wouldn't begrudge him his down year if he was making Julian Edelman money.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I haven´t seen any reports suggesting Peppers is leaning towards returning for another season so far, got a link to one of it???

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ns-to-play-next-season-even-if-cut-by-packers

 

[jrock645]

How did you see him in previous years? Had the Packers offered him $6M, he would be somewhere else. I get it that last year wasn't his best, but nor was it for other Packers. I prefer to see what he does in 2016 before jumping to too many conclusions.

Ive always kind of seen him as a system guy. Productive and exciting, sure. But he never convinced me on his standalone physical skills. This year confirmed that. He didnt just struggle- he disappeared.

 

[Mondio]

It's not just that, comparable slot receivers aren't earning close to what Cobb is earning. I wouldn't begrudge him his down year if he was making Julian Edelman money.

Edelmen signed his contract a year before Cobb, coming off a high catch, ok yards and low TD season. he's been in the league 2 or 3 years longer? Cobb was coming off 90+ catches, 1200+yards and 12 TD's. Younger, almost 4 yards per catch better, more explosive and in the end, their contracts are about 5 million dollars of guaranteed money different. I don't think it was all that crazy considering the circumstances.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Ive always kind of seen him as a system guy. Productive and exciting, sure. But he never convinced me on his standalone physical skills. This year confirmed that. He didnt just struggle- he disappeared.

The man was coming off a moderately bad shoulder injury on top of getting the lion's share of secondary coverage all season. You don't think that's going to mess with any receiver's production?

 

[jrock645]

The man was coming off a moderately bad shoulder injury on top of getting the lion's share of secondary coverage all season. You don't think that's going to mess with any receiver's production?

Like i said, its just how i see him. Ill be glad to be proven wrong next season.

 

[Sky King]

If you have some games recorded look at some of the drops Cobb had during the season. The common thread for many of them was that he took his eyes off the ball and tried to transform into a runner just a tad too early. Some of those drops could have been difference-makers in the games as well as for his stat production on the year. He left several big gainers and 1st downs on the field. It's not like he was never open. He took his eyes off the ball a split-second too early - a bad habit that he had trouble dropping, unfortunately.

Cobb had a bad year. So did his part-time receivers coach, OC, initial play-caller, and his HC. So did Adams, who also had a part-time coach. A. Rodgers had an off year (for him) and so did his part-time coach. Lacy slipped and R. Rodgers never developed fully. As bad as the player product that the coaches mentioned above had delivered they somehow weren't among the two coaches that did get fired. The whole offense was a mess compared to itself in 2014. Cobb had lots and lots of company.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Had adams not been rolled up on by rodgers. And Cobb had a random lung puncture on his amazing catch early 1st quarter. We would have surely beat az. Adding jordy and mont-ster would have any team nervous... We are good at wr imo. But yes, quarless injury concerns and rodgers seemingly getting slower in his second year... A top tier Te would be a back breaker...

 

[easyk83]

Edelmen signed his contract a year before Cobb, coming off a high catch, ok yards and low TD season. he's been in the league 2 or 3 years longer? Cobb was coming off 90+ catches, 1200+yards and 12 TD's. Younger, almost 4 yards per catch better, more explosive and in the end, their contracts are about 5 million dollars of guaranteed money different. I don't think it was all that crazy considering the circumstances.

I don't think it was crazy to pay him, i understand why the Packers did. But last season his limited overall skillset as a wide receiver was exposed. To me a good slot receiver is like a closer in baseball, just not worth as much.

 

[Mondio]

I think they, just like myself, thought RR would improve his game in his 2nd year and he did not. I think he's ok, i think he's very useable in an offense, but to be a true #1 I think he needs to be better. A lot of people misjudged his development. I have to say that with the WR's and RB's and our Oline coming back, I did NOT think passing targets would be an issue last year. The only issue I foresaw was we only had 1 ball to throw to all those guys. We all saw how the season played out. I think Quarless is done. He was limited before the injury and came back even more limited and was put on IR. I don't see him back here.

I'd like another TE, but we can address these issues in other ways too. There were a lot of plays last year left on the field. Poor throws, dropped balls, poor routes. Start hitting those and everything else opens up. So, TE is an either or for me. I still think RR is good enough, assuming everything else is working. He's not the guy that is going to make things work for other people though. But I'm not sure you find that guy in the draft either to contribute in year 1.

 

[jrock645]

I dont follow all the scouting and whatnot but i cant even begin to fathom how anyone could have thought rodgers has the athletic tools to be a legitimate starting TE. A lot of people scratched their heads at how early ted drafted him. Seems like he or someone on his level couldve been had much later.

 

[Mondio]

I dont follow all the scouting and whatnot but i cant even begin to fathom how anyone could have thought rodgers has the athletic tools to be a legitimate starting TE. A lot of people scratched their heads at how early ted drafted him. Seems like he or someone on his level couldve been had much later.

as far as production as an NFL TE, he's not that bad. He's not fast, but then neither are the majority of TE's in the league. But as a big bodied former WR, with great hands, I think you're very wrong in your assessment of Rodgers. His numbers match up pretty well against the rest of the league 50+ catches and almost 10 TD's isn't super star, but it's not scrub either. It's better than most in the league.

 

[jrock645]

Sure, he'll catch some balls particularly in the red zone. Hes shown he can be slithery enough to do well down there but the dude is just so slow. Maybe he just looks that slow, i dunno. Im just not that used to seeing TE's look like theyre lumbering so much. Hard to quantify but he just doesnt pass the eye test for me.

And for the record, an athlete like finley is a total luxury and im not saying we have to have that... But im just not convinced that a guy that lumbers around like a bowling ball fullback is the answer. If Quarless was a couple years younger and not on the outs in GB id think hed be fine. So id say we need the next quarless without the gun incident and latest injury.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

as far as production as an NFL TE, he's not that bad. He's not fast, but then neither are the majority of TE's in the league. But as a big bodied former WR, with great hands, I think you're very wrong in your assessment of Rodgers. His numbers match up pretty well against the rest of the league 50+ catches and almost 10 TD's isn't super star, but it's not scrub either. It's better than most in the league.

It´s true that Rodgers was 12th among all TEs in receptions and fifth in TDs. His lack of yards per reception is the reason most of us are concerned about his production though.

 

[Mondio]

Sure, he'll catch some balls particularly in the red zone. Hes shown he can be slithery enough to do well down there but the dude is just so slow. Maybe he just looks that slow, i dunno. Im just not that used to seeing TE's look like theyre lumbering so much. Hard to quantify but he just doesnt pass the eye test for me.

And for the record, an athlete like finley is a total luxury and im not saying we have to have that... But im just not convinced that a guy that lumbers around like a bowling ball fullback is the answer. If Quarless was a couple years younger and not on the outs in GB id think hed be fine. So id say we need the next quarless without the gun incident and latest injury.

He is slow, and looks slower but that can be "ok" if everything else is working. I'd love a more athletic TE, I think it would be great and help this offense. I don't think RR is going to be that TE that opens things up for other people, he's just not that type of guy. I never thought he would be, but I thought he'd improve more in one season than he did.

BUT, if the other stuff gets fixed, and I think it will, there are a lot of uses for a TE like RR in this offense. I think if a athletic TE is available where we draft or for the right cost in FA, get him, but if we don't get an immediate starter, we can fix some other things and still be ok.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

BUT, if the other stuff gets fixed, and I think it will, there are a lot of uses for a TE like RR in this offense.

This is actually a very good point. We talk a lot about how the WR's didn't fare so well this season due to the dysfunctional play of the offense and probably need to view RR's season in the same light. I still like Hunter Henry, but if a new TE coach and getting Jordy back ups Richard Rodgers game, then use our 1st round on an ILB and grab someone like OSU's Vannett later on. I like Vannett's potential. OSU didn't use him a lot in the passing game, but a very capable blocker and showed good hands when thrown to.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This is actually a very good point. We talk a lot about how the WR's didn't fare so well this season due to the dysfunctional play of the offense and probably need to view RR's season in the same light. I still like Hunter Henry, but if a new TE coach and getting Jordy back ups Richard Rodgers game, then use our 1st round on an ILB and grab someone like OSU's Vannett later on.

An athletic tight end makes life way easier for receivers though as well. I think the position needs to be addressed with a true #1.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

An athletic tight end makes life way easier for receivers though as well. I think the position needs to be addressed with a true #1.

IMO Henry is the only TE in the draft worthy of a #1 and he could very well be gone by the time the Packers pick. I have said all along, I love the pick if he is there, but if not do you trade back and go after Hooper? Or use the #1 on an ILB and hope Hooper is still there in the 2nd or Vannett in the 3rd. We know how much TT dips into the FA market and not so confident he will go there this year for a TE either.

I definitely think the Packer offense would be much better with an athletic TE, but finding one is the trick. Richard Rodgers will never blind anyone with his speed, but with Jordy back and other WR's stepping up their games, we may get more out of RR until that TE is found or developed.

 

[PFanCan]

It´s true that Rodgers was 12th among all TEs in receptions and fifth in TDs. His lack of yards per reception is the reason most of us are concerned about his production though.

Agreed. I recall him breaking a grand total of ONE tackle this past season. Probably had more, but that is all that I recall. He seems to fall down when the defender just gives him an angry look...