2016 Cut-downs

[Half Empty]

I think the point is that the shopping should have been long before cut day. The basic premise that getting nothing for someone of his level holds, regardless.

 

[sjb12681]

And again, your premise would assume that any GM was willing to pay to rent him under his current deal for 1 year, without a new contract in place, sight unseen and hope he was healthy, and willing to sign negotiate a new contract with your team when he arrived. Thats a lot of assumptions to make, regardless of if the phone rang on Friday, or if it rang 2 weeks ago.

 

[Half Empty]

Gosh, I thought there were sign-and-trade deals before. Gee, I figured the other teams could have watched him play. Maybe 2 months instead of 2 weeks might have helped.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm only guessing, but had the Packers started "shopping" Sitton around way back in ......February, they would have found a trade partner and not ended up with nothing but disgruntled and confused fans in September, as well as a pretty good player going to a division rival.

I may be using an extreme by using the month of Feb., but at some point since the end of last season, the Packer organization should have been thinking this decision through with a timeline to maximize the situation. Maybe they were just waiting to see if Taylor was ready to step up into Sitton's spot, but given the game he had against the Chiefs, the decision to let Sitton go was made well before then. This smells like a game of chicken to me......the Packers may have wanted to keep Sitton and combine this years salary with a future contract and in the last hours when Sitton and his agent said "no", the Packers flinched and cut him.

 

[PikeBadger]

I think the point is that the shopping should have been long before cut day. The basic premise that getting nothing for someone of his level holds, regardless.

Do you really think that Josh Sitton's name never came up in TT's talks with other GM's prior to Saturday?

 

[metallicblaze]

Kind of expected Sitton to go to a key rival. An upgrade for them when their line has been porous for quite some time. I thought it would be a 1 or 2 year deal at most.

 

[brandon2348]

Here is the bottom line. TT is either gonna come out of this whole thing as a "Genius" or an "Idiot". Time will tell.

I know expectations are High
this year.

 

[Half Empty]

Do you really think that Josh Sitton's name never came up in TT's talks with other GM's prior to Saturday?

I have absolutely no idea. Did it?

 

[bigbubbatd]

Anyone surprised Sitton didnt visit more places than the Bears or that he didn't find his way to a team that is more of a contender. I think the bears are a little bit of a sleeper team if all their off season moves pan out but seems like a lot of veterans like Sitton go for the ring

 

[Sky King]

I have absolutely no idea. Did it?

Touche

 

[PikeBadger]

Here is the bottom line. TT is either gonna come out of this whole thing as a "Genius" or an "Idiot". Time will tell.

I know expectations and High
this year.

There is always a middle grey area. It's very possible the transaction works out well for both teams.

 

[PikeBadger]

I have absolutely no idea. Did it?

Your post made it sound like it. I think it's a rather simplistic statement to insinuate assumptions unless you know what is actually taking place behind the scenes.

 

[HardRightEdge]

The main advantage of cutting or trading Sitton earlier would have been the starting offensive line being able to practice together for more than week and develop some chemistry.

Conversely, keeping Sitton served as a backstop if Taylor's performance in camp and preseason did not measure up to what the brain trust considered "adequate". We might disagree with the assessment, but as one beat reporter put it, Thompson did not roll out of bed one morning with the idea to cut Sitton. There was a measuring and weighing process.

The team's consideration of this move likely dates back to Taylor's signing in April. Preseason evidently provided confirmation of Taylor's adequacy, though I have a hard time seeing what they saw.

In any case, Taylor had 3 seasons under his belt coming into camp so one would expect he had intimate familiarity with the blocking schemes from the get go, and he did get 2 regular season starts last season working with the first team, which is worth as much or more than a training camp and a few quarters of preseason play.

There's little mystery here. The Packers were going to be hitting a cap wall next season. We've been talking about it for a year and half. Decision making is not binary; it's a collection of suppositions that time weighs to one side or the other.

One factor in the Sitton decision may have been Spriggs' play in preseason. Coming into this camp, having traded up for the guy, one supposition would have been that this is a guy who can start for cheap for 4 years in place of what is bound to be an expensive Bhaktiari over a long term contract. Preseason did not yield to the high end of expectations for Spriggs. There should be some doubt in the minds of observers as to whether he'll be up to the task next season. Re-signing Bhakitiari may have risen higher on the priority list.

A second factor, which I mentioned earlier, is that the mystery extension negotiations Sitton alluded to are being pressed to the high end by agents, making the salary cap wall more daunting than expected. I had pegged Bakhtiari in the $7 - $8 mil per year range, around the current average among the top 32 LTs. Seeing Sitton pull down $10.5 mil per year from the Bears according to some reports makes me think Bahktiari will go higher than my previously assumed range given the premium put on LTs and his youth.

A third factor may have been seeing Bridgewater go down. The Packers odds of winning the division went up significantly even with the Sitton offset. In other words, it's a move Thompson could afford to make competitively now to gain cap space for next year when the Packers hit the cap wall or the replacement wall, which amount to the same thing.

 

[brandon2348]

What's really tough about this whole thing is Sitton was one of my favorite players. I was waiting for some "Mark Chumura type story" to come out where there were high school girls in a hot tub drinking type stuff. But NO.

All I have heard is Sitton was a little cankerous about some play calling and the guys in the locker room are currently in "disbelief." Just like a lot of us fans are in disbelief. None of his teammates had seen any slipage in his play including Mike Daniels.

I understand TT wanting to "move the needle" along as far as keeping the future of the team bright, but for what? 6 million in cap space? It's actually 6 million and probably a new hole at guard. How in the hell is that progress?

This whole thing just doesn't sit well. They avoid the big injury all training camp and don't really even play any of the starters and then just shoot themselves in the foot. It's unreal.

 

[Packer Brother]

Here is the bottom line. TT is either gonna come out of this whole thing as a "Genius" or an "Idiot". Time will tell.

I know expectations are High
this year.

Agreed.

 

[Arthur Squires]

The bears run game is much better with him now. That sucks...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The moment you begin shopping a player on cut day, no gm will bite. Why? Trading when you know a gm is releasing is just foolish unless you absolutely 'must have' that specific player.

There was no reason for Thompson to wait until cut day to ship Sitton though. It seems that the plan all along was to replace him for this season snd it would have been smart to try to get something in return for him way earlier.

And again, your premise would assume that any GM was willing to pay to rent him under his current deal for 1 year, without a new contract in place, sight unseen and hope he was healthy, and willing to sign negotiate a new contract with your team when he arrived.

Teams trading for a player are allowed to revoke a trade in case of a failed physical.

Seeing Sitton pull down $10.5 mil per year from the Bears according to some reports makes me think Bahktiari will go higher than my previously assumed range given the premium put on LTs and his youth.

Sitton's deal with the Bears averages $7.5 million over three years.

A third factor may have been seeing Bridgewater go down. The Packers odds of winning the division went up significantly even with the Sitton offset. In other words, it's a move Thompson could afford to make competitively now to gain cap space for next year when the Packers hit the cap wall or the replacement wall, which amount to the same thing.

I truly hope that wasn't Thompson's mindset. While winning the division is inportant the target for this season should be to bring home another Lombardi Trophy.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

There was no reason for Thompson to wait until cut day to ship Sitton though. It seems that the plan all along was to replace him for this season snd it would have been smart to try to get something in return for him way earlier.

I'm not convinced this was a plan all along. Had it been, the smart move would have been to trade him well before September.

Until the Packer organization has an explanation as to why this was done last minute, critics will continue to point to the fact that the Packers lost trade value with the timing of the move. What that trade value was, we will never know, but I'm guessing Sitton would not be wearing a Division rivals jersey had a trade been worked out in August.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I truly hope that wasn't Thompson's mindset. While winning the division is important the target for this season should be to bring home another Lombardi Trophy.

Agreed. It's an explanation, not an endorsement. As you know, I've been saying for going on 2 years that 2015/2016 was the prime window. But Thompson's way seems to be, "make the playoffs then see what happens."

My bottom line and the larger concern is that the defense needs to be better to get over the hump. The idea you can win the league by winning the offensive fantasy stats has not proved to be the right formula.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My bottom line and the larger concern is that the defense needs to be better to get over the hump. The idea you can win the league by winning the offensive fantasy stats has not proved to be the right formula.

True. The defense improved last season but with Raji having retired and Pennel suspended for the first four games there's reason to be concerned about the defensive line. Especially as Clark hasn't performed up to his draft position so far and Lowry seems to need further development as well. Add the lack of experience and possible lack of talent at inside linebacker into the mix and I'm afraid opponents will be able to produce big rushing numbers against the Packers defense once again.

 

[HardRightEdge]

True. The defense improved last season but with Raji having retired and Pennel suspended for the first four games there's reason to be concerned about the defensive line. Especially as Clark hasn't performed up to his draft position so far and Lowry seems to need further development as well. Add the lack of experience and possible lack of talent at inside linebacker into the mix and I'm afraid opponents will be able to produce big rushing numbers against the Packers defense once again.

D-Line: This is definitely the first order concern. While Capers may up the ante on nickel/dime again from 75% last season, you still have to defend short yardage and the goal line with 3 big bodies. A FG vs. a TD is too often the margin of victory; a porous run defense lets teams with a mediocre QB and good running attack into games they should not be in. Clark has not just underperformed his draft position, he's looked pretty dreadful. NT is not rocket science; other than a RB running the ball (blocking and catching is another matter), NT is the easiest position to plug-and-play which would be a key reason Thompson went that way. One can hope his back issues were present from the start of camp and he wasn't telling anybody. Pennel is perhaps the most underrated player on the roster; he'll be a big add come week 5 or 7; it seems big men take a game or two to get back into the groove. Pennel is developing into one of the best run stuffers in the league. Lowry has not impressed; Ringo has flashed in the pass rush while not impressing against the run.

ILB: I'm optimistic Ryan can continue the improvements seen in the back half of last season. Getting Matthews out of there and back on the edge can only be regarded as playing to strength. Martinez has looked good in coverage and in sideline-to-sideline pursuit. Considering where this position started last season, with Palmer looking pretty terrible and Matthews a fish out of water when not blitzing, there's reason to be optimistic. There's also the interesting possibility of mixing in some snaps with Martinez in coverage, Matthews blitzing inside, and Peppers and Perry off the edge. Martinez is an upgrade over Thomas in dime. I'm most concerned about these guys backstopping a depleted line in the run game. It puts a lot of pressure on Ryan in particular.

DBs: I have concerns about Randall. At the end of last season I was encouraged to see improvement in defending the short slants. But he is vulnerable on the deep sidelines as we saw in preseason. He struggles with the double move and doesn't seem to have the stop-start recovery speed to compensate for misjudgments; his ball tracking and ball skills on the throw over his head looks to be an issue on those 50/50 throws. I'm not entirely convinced we won't see Rollins out there before the season is over. I've been critical of Clinton-Dix as a strong safety posing as a free safety. He's gone long stretches without being around the ball on deep sideline throws which raises questions about his reading of the offense. We saw improvement toward the end of last season with a couple picks/defenses on sideline balls. Let's hope the light has gone on. We also have to a little concerned about whether Burnett is less than 100%.

The strength of the defense is pass defense in the secondary in the red zone, which is no small thing, where vulnerabilities on the back end are not a concern. For the early games, bend-don't-break would be the watch phrase. After that, we'll just have see how things jell.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I have concerns about Randall. At the end of last season I was encouraged to see improvement in defending the short slants. But he is vulnerable on the deep sidelines as we saw in preseason. He struggles with the double move and doesn't seem to have the stop-start recovery speed to compensate for misjudgments; his ball tracking and ball skills on the throw over his head looks to be an issue on those 50/50 throws. I'm not entirely convinced we won't see Rollins out there before the season is over.

I'm not entirely comvinced Randall will line up on the perimeter this week. I think it's possible Rollins ends up getting that assignment.

 

[Pkrjones]

I'd be ecstatic if our linebackers were the leading tacklers on the team this year. In 2015 (5) of the top 7 tackle leaders were CB's & Safeties. I realize ILB was by platoon, but don't want our DB's needing to focus on the run... they need to shut down opposing WR's & TE's first, then run support.

Think having CM3 & Perry on the edges will funnel plays more inside, allowing the ILB's a legitimate first-shot at RB's/QB's running inside. Have to go back to 2010 to find the 2 ILB's as leading tacklers (Hawk/Bishop)... since 2011 Burnett either led the team or was #2.

 

[jrock645]

I think Rollins is going to wind up as a better pure cover corner than Randall. Hes gonna take a minute, but i think his ceiling could be very high.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I'm not entirely comvinced Randall will line up on the perimeter this week. I think it's possible Rollins ends up getting that assignment.

It is possible. They started Rollins outside and Randall at nickel to start preseason game 3, but switched back to Randall outside for game 4.

There is weighing of pros and cons I'm sure given that Rollins has commended himself well since the day he showed up. They do tend to be stubborn with those first round picks, though. That's somewhat understandable. Upside potential is seen when drafting the guy that high in the first place. There is no substitute for money game play is judging whether steps are being taken toward that potential.

From my perspective, the closer to the middle of the field and the deeper end of the field, the better Randall would look. I've said it before and I'll say it again...the guy has "free safety" stamped all over him.