Who's On The Fence?

[Deleted member 6794]

Jones certainly couldn't be considered a lock based on his play.

While Jones hasn´t lived up to being a first-round pick he´s one of the better pass rushers on the Packers defensive line.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

While Jones hasn´t lived up to being a first-round pick he´s one of the better pass rushers on the Packers defensive line.

I'd agree with that. The problem is, that for a first round pick, he really hasn't been significantly better than, say, Josh Boyd or Mike Pennel.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The problem is, that for a first round pick, he really hasn't been significantly better than, say, Josh Boyd or Mike Pennel.

There´s no doubt expectations were way higher for him when he was drafted.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Even in that scenerio he still makes the team. The ONLY scenerio where he gets cut is if all of Randall, Rollins, Hyde and Gunter play heads and tails above him AND he's injured. Even then he still makes the pup list.

As I understand it, once a player is medically cleared and steps foot on a camp practice field, even if for only one minute, he is no longer eligible for preseason Active/PUP or regular season Reserve/PUP. Hayward was medically cleared on 7/29 and practiced on 7/30, thereby no longer eligible for PUP.

Nonetheless, he's a "good bet" to make the team.

 

[sschind]

As I understand it, once a player is medically cleared and steps foot on a camp practice field, even if for only one minute, he is no longer eligible for preseason Active/PUP or regular season Reserve/PUP. Hayward was medically cleared on 7/29 and practiced on 7/30, thereby no longer eligible for PUP.

Nonetheless, he's a "good bet" to make the team.

This is why it makes sense to read all the posts in a thread before posting a reply. I was about to post the same thing. Hayward is not eligible for the pup list.

 

[HardRightEdge]

This is why it makes sense to read all the posts in a thread before posting a reply. I was about to post the same thing. Hayward is not eligible for the pup list.

I would have no objection had you simply posted the same thing I had. While redundant, it provides a voice of confirmation which is hardly a mortal sin. As it stands, there is an additional post either way.

 

[PikeBadger]

I wonder........... Is it possible for anyone to play there way from "likely cut" to on the fence seeing they'll most likely be playing against third stringers this week? Or are these guys playing for a spot on the practice squad?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

With as deep and talented as the Packer Roster is, most of the non "fence guys" are playing for either the PS or to be grabbed by another team, which I bet many will be this year. The key for Thompson this year for the final 53 (and PS) is the 2-3 still suspended that don't count towards it. IMO he shouldn't try to stash the 2-3 they have to waive when the suspensions are completed. I think those 2-3 players will be hard to sneak over to the PS, since it will be a quiet Waiver wire at that time, as well as other teams sustaining injuries in the first 1-3 weeks of play.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I wonder........... Is it possible for anyone to play there way from "likely cut" to on the fence seeing they'll most likely be playing against third stringers this week? Or are these guys playing for a spot on the practice squad?

It's possible. Elliot made the team last year with flash plays against 3rd. stringers. I don't think he was much on anybody's radar before that.

Or in this most recent game, Jones and Gaston were on the on the field at the same time against New England's second string line and Gaston outplayed him...quicker off the ball, better penetration, an impressive move whipping his man for a sack. I think a week ago most would have put him on the "likely cut" list. That should not be the case as of now. We need to see some follow-up performances from him, but he's clearly in the hunt.

I don't think many had Alonzo Harris as a likely candidate for the #3 RB spot...he's in the hunt now.

Clearly some backup spots are more competitive than others but there is certainly room for a few guys to surprise.

 

[sschind]

I would have no objection had you simply posted the same thing I had. While redundant, it provides a voice of confirmation which is hardly a mortal sin. As it stands, there is an additional post either way.

Oh, I know. It wasn't you I was worried about. I was worried about making myself look stupid and I don't need any help with that.

 

[sschind]

I wonder........... Is it possible for anyone to play there way from "likely cut" to on the fence seeing they'll most likely be playing against third stringers this week? Or are these guys playing for a spot on the practice squad?

It has always been my opinion that few players (maybe 2 if that) play themselves onto a roster during preseason games. Most of those decisions are made in TC and practice. The games may be a bit more important now that rules are so strict regarding what you can and can't do in practice but if a guy isn't showing much in practice I don't think he can change that by having a few good plays in a few meaningless games against meaningless opponents. So in answer to your question I'd say probably not too likely. Occasionally a player might do something amazing during a few PS games that really catch the coaches attention and may swing the vote in their favor so it can happen but for the most part I think the coaches already have a pretty good idea what they are capable of.

I do think the opposite can happen though. If a player totally screws up in a few games his days are probably numbered.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I wonder........... Is it possible for anyone to play there way from "likely cut" to on the fence seeing they'll most likely be playing against third stringers this week? Or are these guys playing for a spot on the practice squad?

Last year none of the players McGinn considered long shots to make the team ended up on the 53 entering week 1. Garth Gerhart and Luther Robinson played some snaps for the Packers during the 2014 season though.

 

[adambr2]

While I don't have a problem with most of who McGinns thinks will and won't make the roster, I find myself strongly disagreeing with his gauging.

- Montgomery is a lock. Cmon now. Ed Williams is a long shot at best.

- I really don't think Barclay is on the fence based on one week, though he's not a lock.

- I have a little problem with Raji being a 'lock' based on doing nothing or being hurt for multiple seasons now. You've got safer guys than Raji not listed as locks, McGinn. And Datone Jones? He hasn't lived up to his first round expectations, but geez, the guy is not Justin Harrell. We knew Jones would take time when we drafted him, we are not going to cut a young promising 1st round pick at a position of need after 2 seasons.

- Mostly agreed at LB, though he has Neal as a lock, with Perry as a good bet, and again, Jones as a fence guy, just seems so arbitrary.

- Mostly agreed in the secondary, though I can't imagine Hayward not making the team, and Richardson is a lot better than a fence guy just based on his tender. We can't ignore that it would look like an awfully bad decision to pay $2.35M to keep a guy and then just cut him and forfeit the money and cap space for nothing.

 

[adambr2]

I agree that the secondary is looking very good. And I hope they are "loaded" but in Gunter, Rollins, and Randall we have 3 players who have never played a snap in a real NFL game. So it's a little early IMO to say the secondary is loaded. At $2.5 mil Richardson isn't cheap - but TJV points out his versastility and I'll point out his veteran presence. If all goes well and the rookies live up to the promise we've seen (Gunter and Rollins, we haven't seen Randall yet), then Richardson becomes an insurance policy that never has a claim. I don't see that much downside in keeping him, actually the opposite. I still remember the complaining in this forum about 1) taking Randall in the first round when most didn't know his name and then 2) taking a guy, Rollins, in the 2nd round who played one year of college ball at DB. I know that hindsight is 20/20 but I think the decision to pay Richardson was the right one and by NFL pay, inexpensive insurance.

My problem is that Richardson is a very, very bad pass defender for a safety. It's hard to consider him insurance at safety when you're in trouble if you're trying to use him in that role.

So you're basically paying 2.5M for a situational run defending safety and special teams player. I find it hard to justify that, but we'll see how the special teams turns out this year.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

How so? I actually think its pretty accurate. When it comes right down to it 53 guys make the team and in McGinns eyes the locks and the good bets are all going to be among them. Do you disagree with that? Is reaching because he thinks Hayward will make he team but he doesn't consider him a lock? (see HREs post as to why he may not be a lock) That's like saying a top 10 list sucks because you think the guy at #7 should be #5. Either way, lock or good bet, he makes the team.

Could it just be a bit of Bob McGinn hating coming out. I'm actually not much of a McGinn fan but I think this happens to be one of his better attempts.

No I don't read enough of McGinn to form that kind of opinion. I just felt that this article didn't really say much. If there is a difference between thinking a guy is going to make the team and a lock, it's meaningless in the case of guys like Hayward and Barclay. Do you or anyone else on this forum really think there's a chance either or both of these guys gets cut? If the answer is "no" or more likely "no way" than making a distinction like this just doesn't add much to the conversation of who will and won't be on the roster.

McGinn is a good enough writer, this article IMO was written to meet a deadline. And I think it's ok to say an article isn't very good w/o having you suggest that means I "hate" McGinnn. With that logic, I could say that maybe you like him too much. Ah we just disagree over the quality of this article. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

My problem is that Richardson is a very, very bad pass defender for a safety. It's hard to consider him insurance at safety when you're in trouble if you're trying to use him in that role.

So you're basically paying 2.5M for a situational run defending safety and special teams player. I find it hard to justify that, but we'll see how the special teams turns out this year.

That's a good point. I think TT was stuck. Just too many unknowns going into the offseason with this secondary.

 

[TeamTundra]

IMO Richardson was also resigned with the thinking if he leaves after this season
the Packers may receive a compensatory draft choice.

 

[adambr2]

IMO Richardson was also resigned with the thinking if he leaves after this season
the Packers may receive a compensatory draft choice.

He'd have to essentially be signed as a starter to have a chance at anything. I find that very unlikely. But, you never know, we managed to get something for Erik Walden.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ed Williams is a long shot at best.

I was surprised by that as well, especially as I haven't heard of any spectacular plays he made in practice. To me, it seems like Larry Pinkard has bern the best out of the undrafted receivers so far.

I have a little problem with Raji being a 'lock' based on doing nothing or being hurt for multiple seasons now. You've got safer guys than Raji not listed as locks, McGinn.

With the plan to move Guion to defensive end Raji is by far the best option at nose tackle. While he has been a disappointment for several seasons he's a lock to make the team.

IMO Richardson was also resigned with the thinking if he leaves after this season
the Packers may receive a compensatory draft choice.

If that was the reason behind matching the Raiders offer for Richardson the Packers should have offered him a second-round tender in the first place.

 

[PikeBadger]

I expect Richardson to improve as a pass defender. I think the coaching staff expects improvement too.

I think Raji is a lock too as much as it pains me to say that. The suspensions on the DL have certainly reduced our options. I'm hoping that Gaston and Pennel make our DL options more palatable.

 

[adambr2]

With the plan to move Guion to defensive end Raji is by far the best option at nose tackle. While he has been a disappointment for several seasons he's a lock to make the team.

I guess my perspective is this, and I'll disclaim it by saying BJ Raji will almost certainly make this roster.

There was some speculation last offseason prior to Raji's injury that he could be cut if he bombed preseason. It was notable that there were only $500,000 in guarantees, and if I'm not mistaken this year's contract is similar in guarantees. I have a hard time seeing how his situation has changed for the better after a major injury and year of not playing.

My point I guess is that there I could see a scenario, if Boyd or Pennel had a dominant pre-season while Raji bombed again, that they could cut ties, particularly if Guion sees his suspension cut on appeal. Guys who I consider stone cold "locks", Rodgers, Lacy, Nelson, Matthews, etc, don't have any scenarios. They are on the team no matter what happens in the pre-season, regardless of performance and regardless of the performance of their peers. To me, there's a difference. The reputation advantage should be long gone by now.

Is Raji by far the best option we have at NT? I guess we'll find out -- he should be, but he's had years of being the league's worst.

 

[TJV]

I'm right there with you adambr2 in thinking Raji has to prove it on the field, but we heard/read good reports about him last TC and I quoted these comments about two weeks ago:

The highlight of the one-on-ones between the offensive line and defensive line has been the jousts between NT B.J. Raji and C Corey Linsley. Raji is flying off the ball at his lighter weight (327), and Linsley has been matching him step for step.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...uesday-at-a-glance-b99550070z1-320711051.html

Nose tackle B.J. Raji is in good shape and he appears to be motivated, but don’t expect him to be a dominant force at the point of attack. Unlike Ryan Pickett, he too often allows his leverage to be compromised by standing straight up out of his stance. The coaches are obviously willing to live with that as long as the former No. 1 pick uses his athleticism to make plays down the line of scrimmage and in the backfield – something he’s done a few times this summer.

http://packersnotes.com/2015/08/mccarthy-is-everywhere/

And he did yoga in the off season and generally seemed to take his job more seriously. Again, we'll see but that's why he's the #1 NT. I have high hopes for Pennel and hope he can beat out Boyd. And although he's not a NT, I hope Gaston's 'flash' isn't a flash in the pan.

 

[adambr2]

I agree that all off-season reports on Raji have been good, and I certainly hope as do all of us Packer fans that he has a big bounce back season. He's back in 'prove it to us in the regular season' status, that's all.

 

[PackFan2]

Bradford and Thornton are on the fence.. Hope they produce in preseason or else. :/

 

[adambr2]

Potentially we are looking at very possibly a 3rd (Thornton), 4th (Bradford), 5th (Abbrederis), and 6th (Goodson) all from the same draft class not even surviving to see a 2nd year in the system. That's really disappointing.

Obviously Linsley is a gem, but percentage-wise we need to do better than this.