What TT Gets Right and Wrong about FA

[TJV]

Yes, you are correct. But he was the Director of Pro Player Personnel for a few years, which by name, has the most to do with existing NFL talent, which includes FA's, which is what this thread was about.

But you posted:

I know Packer fans clamor over Eliot Wolf but I think he certainly has some responsibility in this as well (to include successful and unsuccessful draft picks).

It looked to me like you thought Wolf has been director of player personnel for some time.

 

[JBlood]

Are you referring to the 5 Championships they won in 14 seasons? I'd take that.

Nope. Referring to the comments posted about how they were the model to copy 2 years ago

Oh, I thought you were referring to the 5 Championships they won with their 2 HOF quarterbacks in 14 years. We've won 2 with ours in the last 24 years.

 

[Mondio]

Oh, I thought you were referring to the 5 Championships they won with their 2 HOF quarterbacks in 14 years. We've won 2 with ours in the last 24 years.

in a time when you could keep your own players, those with the most money made the rules and runs like that were fairly common. The Packers, the Steelers, Raiders, Dallas, SF. Then FA came along and the salary cap and of course San Fran tried skirting those rules too and haven't won much since.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Oh, I thought you were referring to the 5 Championships they won with their 2 HOF quarterbacks in 14 years. We've won 2 with ours in the last 24 years.

I think what we're seeing is every plan looks brilliant while the team is winning.

GB has been in the playoffs for years with players TT has drafted, which has given the strictly draft and develop philosophy and him much credibility. Now a couple of guys go down, and we realize there is not as much talent or depth as we once believed, and the system sucks.

 

[JBlood]

in a time when you could keep your own players,

There's truth to that, for sure; but building teams and coaching them to Championships are two different things. Scooter had the team in 1958 and won 1 game with Starr, Taylor, Hornung, Ringo, Kramer, Gregg, Nitschke, Currie, Forrester, et al. Lombardi turned them into winners.
Belichek has been to 6 Championships while running the Patriots, winning 4. The list of free agent additions and subractions he's made is astonishing (http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/patriots-free-agency-history), and includes Rodney Harrison, Rob Ninkovich, Mike Vrabel, Junior Seau, Danny Woodhead and a bunch of "over the hill" vets that played well for New England for a year. AND he averages 8-9 draft picks yearly. So, if Championships are the goal, maybe the Patriot way ought to be the model(minus the cheating, of course).

McCarthy has had an excellent run over the last 7 years. Had his teams won a couple more Championships he'd be considered among the best coaches of all time. But he hasn't. Those of us pushing 70 are getting impatient.

 

[PikeBadger]

As much as we all want the Packers to win the Super Bowl every year, no team/organization is THAT good to be able to stay on top every year. TT has been with the Packers over 10 years now and if you evaluate how the Packers have done over that stretch, I'm pretty happy with TT.

I also don't think that "the sky is falling" on the Packers and they will be back next year strong and maybe with few less expectations to live up to by all.

warning, this article does not take into consideration this year.....

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/08/nfl...ndianapolis-pittsburgh-which-nfl-team-is-best

I was really surprised by this list. I didn't expect Pittsburgh to be ahead of us and was shocked that San Diego and Dallas were as high on the list as they were.

Would be curious to see the 15 and 20 year list as well.

 

[Grave]

I think the sky IS falling. The Queens were better at season's end than the Packers and they'll be better next year.

It looks like MM/TT will stick with Campen and Capers. AR will continue to be beaten to a pulp and Caper's Zany Zones will continue to break down.

The delusional MM will continue to waste the best QB I've ever seen. TT will continue to ignore his FA staffers.

UNLESS, Murphy the Marketer steps in to make serious FOOTBALL demands of the coaching staff and GM.

 

[Grave]

There's truth to that, for sure; but building teams and coaching them to Championships are two different things. Scooter had the team in 1958 and won 1 game with Starr, Taylor, Hornung, Ringo, Kramer, Gregg, Nitschke, Currie, Forrester, et al. Lombardi turned them into winners.
Belichek has been to 6 Championships while running the Patriots, winning 4. The list of free agent additions and subractions he's made is astonishing (http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/patriots-free-agency-history), and includes Rodney Harrison, Rob Ninkovich, Mike Vrabel, Junior Seau, Danny Woodhead and a bunch of "over the hill" vets that played well for New England for a year. AND he averages 8-9 draft picks yearly. So, if Championships are the goal, maybe the Patriot way ought to be the model(minus the cheating, of course).

McCarthy has had an excellent run over the last 7 years. Had his teams won a couple more Championships he'd be considered among the best coaches of all time. But he hasn't. Those of us pushing 70 are getting impatient.

MM would be in trouble without the new Divisions.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I think the sky IS falling. The Queens were better at season's end than the Packers and they'll be better next year.

It looks like MM/TT will stick with Campen and Capers. AR will continue to be beaten to a pulp and Caper's Zany Zones will continue to break down.

The delusional MM will continue to waste the best QB I've ever seen. TT will continue to ignore his FA staffers.

UNLESS, Murphy the Marketer steps in to make serious FOOTBALL demands of the coaching staff and GM.

Hopefully this happens after the pathetic showing by our offense. The only way I can see the current regime winning is if they have the best team of players in football-and they aren't close right now. They aren't going to be able to beat better teams, especially at the very end of the game.

 

[PackerDNA]

IMO, for lack of better terms, he's too risk averse and inflexible.

 

[MadCat]

IMO, for lack of better terms, he's too risk averse and inflexible.

The irony here is that there is a lot more risk in relying so heavily on the draft. At least a FA is a known quantity to an extent and can bring some experience and leadership with him. The draft is pretty much a crap shoot and in our case just remains an ongoing building process which may never accomplish its ultimate goal. Always hopeful though!

 

[Mondio]

The irony here is that there is a lot more risk in relying so heavily on the draft. At least a FA is a known quantity to an extent and can bring some experience and leadership with him. The draft is pretty much a crap shoot and in our case just remains an ongoing building process which may never accomplish its ultimate goal. Always hopeful though!

That depends, is the goal to build a team or get 1 good player? Because if money, a cap, aging players, the blend of youth, Roster turnover due to FA or injury, or retirement, all pro's going down creating a hole you were anticipating in the line up, players on an upswing suddenly turning down or having UDFA's that work their way up to starter status aren't considerations, then I'd say FA is probably a better way to get a good player for the short term anyway.

But there are so many moving parts to a team and every season and how others are developing, or aren't, cap hits, injuries etc, that I'm fine with a lot of draft picks in general

 

[Deleted member 6794]

But there are so many moving parts to a team and every season and how others are developing, or aren't, cap hits, injuries etc, that I'm fine with a lot of draft picks in general

What a lot of Thompson supporters don't realize that most of the fans wanting him to use free agency and trades more often absolutely agree with the bold statement. It shouldn't be the only way to upgrade the team though.

 

[Packer96]

How much credit do we give MM for coaching in our division? How would he have fared in the AFC Central the last 10 years? ARod is one of the 6-7 people in the world who can play at his level NFL QB. We are sliding the wrong way.

 

[Mondio]

How much credit do we give MM for coaching in our division? How would he have fared in the AFC Central the last 10 years? ARod is one of the 6-7 people in the world who can play at his level NFL QB. We are sliding the wrong way.

Or how about the afc east,west? Or nfc south, west, east? The patriots exist in a division filled with juggernauts

 

[PackerDNA]

Or how about the afc east,west? Or nfc south, west, east? The patriots exist in a division filled with juggernauts

I know a couple of Dolphins fans. Among the most disappointed people on the planet.

 

[Carl]

Are you referring to the 5 Championships they won in 14 seasons? I'd take that.

Comparing teams now to teams in the 80s with no salary cap and no free agency doesn't make sense. Once a great team was put together, it stayed together.

 

[PackerDNA]

I agree with your point, Carl, but if I could expand on it. Competition was tougher than- more opponents of high quality to get through, rules changes these days and so on could turn this into a pro and con battle of perspectives.

 

[Vrill]

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/Report-Mike-McCarthy-fed-up-with-Ted-Thompsons-philosophy-43106391

This might be the year we see TT sign some FA's after all.......

 

[RRyder]

I agree with your point, Carl, but if I could expand on it. Competition was tougher than- more opponents of high quality to get through, rules changes these days and so on could turn this into a pro and con battle of perspectives.

True but you could argue competition was tougher because teams stuck togeter so there was a constant continuity

 

[Mondio]

I'm sure if the value is there he will, if not, he won't. I read one of these so called "reports" and it had zero substance. I assume this one is just a re-hash of the rest? Waiting for some substance, but I suppose him adamantly saying that Matthews is an OLB and we need to get him out there is a way of saying we need some ILB's and a pass catcher across the middle

 

[Vrill]

He could be just planting some seeds.

 

[PackerDNA]

True but you could argue competition was tougher because teams stuck togeter so there was a constant continuity

Say that 5 times fast.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Well, obviously as our beloved columnist Vic Ketchman has said, "Good Rosters Blend All Forms Of Acquisition" as a hint that TT should be willing to dip into the free agent pool. I've often thought it's not a bad move when you got some great pieces out there, like when we brought Jeff Saturday on board back in 2012 I think it was. Plus for so many years for so long, you can only do so much to overcome injuries. I know, I hate using them as an excuse, but not all teams are going to have the luxury of having depth on their rosters to overcome them, and I think if you're truly going to solidify depth in certain positions, you just gotta be willing to grab free agents when they fit your scheme.

Having said that, I am growing concerned about the various reports coming about MM and stuff going on off the field with him like this. And that is rumors about him and Aaron having a divide between them and a rift in the relationship, and now this stuff about him not being happy at Ted Thompson all the sudden this year when that's never been the case before. I get that the media will always throw a report of some kind or another when a team heads into regression and things aren't going like they used to, but it still makes me worried about MM starting to lose it or something. I don't want him to go at all, that's the last thing the Packers should think of, but some coaches do seem to get a run going for a while in which they do pretty well only to see the bottom fall out of the barrel not too much later.

 

[rodell330]

I hope this is true! Get rid if both of them!!