What the hell is going on out there?

[Sky King]

If I read Butler correctly he gives the Packer no chance to save this season and feels the Packer players have all but given up.

Not quite what I got from watching those videos. Leroy explains, in part, WHY this team is where it's at. He also suggests how they can turn it around. Unless they do the season would be lost. There's still hope as long as the right people properly address the key underlying problem.

His observations regarding the offense were very insightful and, as illustrated by that failed play at the goal line. An absolute slam-dunk TD opportunity was wasted by Rodgers when he changed out of the perfect play MM had called against the defense. Lacy could have walked-into the end zone and the photos shown in the video proved that. Instead, Rodgers throws the ball towards Adams who, of course, fails to deliver.

After the play was over he was even questioned by his own lineman,"Why didn't you run it?" Why, indeed. That makeshift O line last Sunday was not going to win the game with its pass-blocking. As Leroy observed, had Rodgers just run the ball the game would have stood at 10-7 at the half with the Packers getting the KO to open the third quarter. It was a huge mistake on Rodgers part, not to mention demoralizing for an O line and the entire team badly in need of a boost.

It's not the only astute observation that Leroy had regarding Rodgers struggling leadership and his possible rift with MM regarding Clements dismissal as the play-caller. Finally, his comment regarding the offensive coaching staff having "...too many moving parts" hit the nail on the head IMHO. In this case it is MM who whiffed very badly with the offensive coaching reorganization that he instituted after last season's disastrous collapse. The coaching dysfunction has directly caused dysfunction on the field. Why wouldn't it?

It may be the problems behind the scenes that are causing the problems that we see on the field. It can be fixed but will it? Time's about out for doing so this season.

 

[Packerlover]

These are all great comments you guys and Butler's assessment bothers me but I have faith that the Packers will respond in a professional manner and take care of the business at hand - beating the Vikings and winning the division. If they do that, then there's hope. If they falter against the Vikings and there's still talk of discontent, then the season's over. They may get past the Redskins but no way we will be able to beat Arizona or the Panthers or even Seattle for that matter if by chance we play them again in the playoffs. It's now or never.. this is what separates the men from the boys.. right?

 

[milani]

Butler usually tells it like it is. He's not just simply a homer. Maybe the players just realize they are just not good enough. With that said have some pride and go out there. We really had less of a chance in 2010 but we did have a strong resolve because of the leadership of players like Driver and Woodson.

 

[chefbob58]

Offensive problems:

1. Losing Jordy
2. Rodgers not on his game
3. Lacy out of shape
4. Banged up OL and lack of depth on OL
5. Cobb not catching the ball
6. Adams generally sucking
7. Losing Montgomery and Quarless most of the season

Number 1 will be back next year. Number 2 should work itself out. Number 3 needs a personal trainer in his back pocket all offseason long. Number 4 needs improved depth. Number 5 probably improves when Number 1 is resolved. Number 6 can be replaced if necessary by almost anyone else if he doesn't get his **** together. Number 7... see Number 1.

There's plenty of reason to be optimistic about our offense being as good or better than ever next year, but very little reason to expect that to happen this year.

Have you thought about a bad coaching staff as number 1 reason for the total lack of desire and next man up that better coaches show. Did AZ cry about losing Mathieu or just put somebody in to do a job on our receivers. Only coach who could make Rodgers and Mathews average is ours. No excuses

 

[Un4GivN]

Have you thought about a bad coaching staff as number 1 reason for the total lack of desire and next man up that better coaches show. Did AZ cry about losing Mathieu or just put somebody in to do a job on our receivers. Only coach who could make Rodgers and Mathews average is ours. No excuses

So what is your solution fire every coach and coordinator on the team?

Pretty harsh for a staff that is 104-54-1 and made the playoffs 7 straight years... Don't you think?

 

[TJV]

It's been mentioned many times that the difference with the 2010 season was they were in every game. That obviously hasn't been the case this season. Also as LeRoy or Tom mentioned, in Rodgers defense he threw a TD pass to Adams - the QB can't do better than throwing the ball than to have it hit both of the WR's palms. I understand Rodgers thinking they’ll need a confident Adams to do anything in the playoffs but that looks like a lost cause for this season.

Maybe MM's brother's death had something to do with it, but he seemed to want less responsibility this season, so he gave up playcalling. Then he did things to lose respect from the players. Myles White had a great preseason and all indications were he'd make the final roster. Then suddenly James Jones was cut and they dumped White to make room for Jones. Then mid-season MM is forced to take back playcalling duties, which pissed AR off since he's friends with Clements. Chewy even said in a radio interview this weekend that MM has lost the team and AR doesn't respect MM and thinks he's smarter than MM.

First, IMO McCarthy gave up play calling to have more time to coach the entire team instead of just the offense. The D and STs are improved - we don’t know how much of that is attributed to McCarthy but it’s likely his greater role in those areas helped. Second, replacing Myles White with James Jones was an error? You gotta be kidding. Third, IMO it was a good idea for McCarthy to take back the play calling duties, even if that hurt Clements and Rodgers’ feelings. IMO there are some coaching problems but you swung and missed on 'em. Butler's 'too many chefs' idea is more likely the problem.

Have you thought about a bad coaching staff as number 1 reason for the total lack of desire and next man up that better coaches show. … Only coach who could make Rodgers and Mathews average is ours. No excuses

IMO the only way you can make this statement is if you ignore history. Did this HC get ‘next man up’ to work in 2010? Did this HC help Rodgers win two MVPs? BTW, this is what McGinn had to say about Matthews in the Cardinal game:

The only other pressure came from Clay Matthews (30 at ILB, 18 at OLB) on a bull rush and chase. … For the second straight game, Matthews didn't have a tackle. On Johnson's second carry, Matthews met him squarely at the line, crumpled and the gain was 6. As a rusher against LT Jared Veldheer and as a run stuffer, Matthews was next to invisible.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/rating-the-packers-vs-cardinals-b99641779z1-363699321.html

Just as with the goal line play Butler and Silverstein diagrammed, the players have to take responsibility too. Matthews had one pressure vs. a mostly stationary QB and has gone two games without a tackle. That’s obviously not entirely on the coaching staff.

 

[Mondio]

Have you thought about a bad coaching staff as number 1 reason for the total lack of desire and next man up that better coaches show. Did AZ cry about losing Mathieu or just put somebody in to do a job on our receivers. Only coach who could make Rodgers and Mathews average is ours. No excuses

just think if we had a staff that could take a team with so many players on IR we'd have to kick off our shoes to start counting on our toes because we ran out of fingers, to the Super Bowl and win. We'd really have some good coaches then.

 

[Half Empty]

Or, maybe subs that had their (only) career year, other subs that were better than they guys they replaced, the one real loss on offense resulted in a more balanced attack, and half the guys on IR were 'who?'.

 

[PackerDNA]

Man, 2010 is getting old, literally and figuratively. And only Finley- who it was thought had become too much a focus on offence, and Grant-only because we had no one else at RB- were the only real losses. The rest were replaced by guys who either exceeded or equaled their level of play.

 

[Mondio]

Man, 2010 is getting old, literally and figuratively. And only Finley- who it was thought had become too much a focus on offence, and Grant-only because we had no one else at RB- were the only real losses. The rest were replaced by guys who either exceeded or equaled their level of play.

you're right, 2010 was a lifetime ago. and all those guys were replaced by all pros that went on to have storied and amazing NFL careers right?

You know what else is old? People that can't give one of the best GM's and head coaches in the league a little credit. Fire them both today, and they'd be hired tomorrow, that's how much their peers respect and admire them. But you probably know better, I apologize

 

[PackerDNA]

Give it a rest, Mondio. 2010 is as relevant as 1996 or 1967. What we're talking about is here, now, today, and where this team is headed going forward. Yet say anything 'negative' about what is turning into a **** show of a season- that would be this season- and guys like you get all pissy and start yelling 2010.
Get a new material writer.

 

[Mondio]

Give it a rest, Mondio. 2010 is as relevant as 1996 or 1967. What we're talking about is here, now, today, and where this team is headed going forward. Yet say anything 'negative' about what is turning into a **** show of a season- that would be this season- and guys like you get all pissy and start yelling 2010.
Get a new material writer.

except we have all but maybe 2-3 of the same top guys on the staff still in 2015 and maybe Cliff Christl left over from 1996, so actually 2010 is far more relevant to 2015 than 96. But anyway. I find it funny that someone says our coaches can't coach, when they have shown they can. I have lots to say negative about this season, I have lots I think both coaches and GM could have done a bit differently. I also see that nothing happens in a vacuum and I also know there are a lot of other factors involved other than thinking some of the best in the league, greatly admired by peers, suddenly can't coach.

Speaking of getting new material...

 

[Mondio]

Or, maybe subs that had their (only) career year, other subs that were better than they guys they replaced, the one real loss on offense resulted in a more balanced attack, and half the guys on IR were 'who?'.

and half the guys that replaced them with where "who". But you too are probably correct. Those guys went on to have career years because they were just that good and that driven and that awesome. Probably had very little to do with coaching.

 

[red4tribe]

Give it a rest, Mondio. 2010 is as relevant as 1996 or 1967. What we're talking about is here, now, today, and where this team is headed going forward. Yet say anything 'negative' about what is turning into a **** show of a season- that would be this season- and guys like you get all pissy and start yelling 2010.
Get a new material writer.

Has the coaching staff had failings this year? Yes. But I think you are being too harsh. The Packers have been a model of consistency since MM got here, and only the Patriots have as many consecutive playoff appearances. I mean, come on, we were essentially a third string tight end error away from the Super Bowl last year. Not every year is going to be perfect. And I disagree that 2010 is as irrelevant as 1996 or 1967. Same coaches, same GM, many of the same core players...

 

[PackerDNA]

except we have all but maybe 2-3 of the same top guys on the staff still in 2015 and maybe Cliff Christl left over from 1996, so actually 2010 is far more relevant to 2015 than 96. But anyway. I find it funny that someone says our coaches can't coach, when they have shown they can. I have lots to say negative about this season, I have lots I think both coaches and GM could have done a bit differently. I also see that nothing happens in a vacuum and I also know there are a lot of other factors involved other than thinking some of the best in the league, greatly admired by peers, suddenly can't coach.

Speaking of getting new material...

That's all fine, my friend, and I'm not one to slap around the front office or coaches like some that you referred to in your post. But I do think the time for change is coming.
BTW, wasn't intending to slap you around, either.

 

[TJV]

Man, 2010 is getting old, literally and figuratively. And only Finley- who it was thought had become too much a focus on offence, and Grant-only because we had no one else at RB- were the only real losses. The rest were replaced by guys who either exceeded or equaled their level of play.

If 2010 is getting old, why write about it after making that point? And of course Mondio is correct is writing it's more relevant than '96 or '67, since the same GM, HC and much of the staff is still in place. The bolded sentence is easy to write in hindsight. How does Thompson not deserve credit for having those players on the roster?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

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Trying to imagine 5-10 around here.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

you're right, 2010 was a lifetime ago. and all those guys were replaced by all pros that went on to have storied and amazing NFL careers right?

You know what else is old? People that can't give one of the best GM's and head coaches in the league a little credit. Fire them both today, and they'd be hired tomorrow, that's how much their peers respect and admire them. But you probably know better, I apologize

I'd give Rodgers a much higher chance of being successful anywhere than McCarthy. If both him and Thompson were at the top of their class, we wouldn't be getting drummed by the best teams. We got our butts whipped 3 times by top competitors. This has seemed to be an issue for years. There are some clear deficiencies in personnel or coaching.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

Have you thought about a bad coaching staff as number 1 reason for the total lack of desire and next man up that better coaches show. Did AZ cry about losing Mathieu or just put somebody in to do a job on our receivers. Only coach who could make Rodgers and Mathews average is ours. No excuses

Nonsense. No coach made anyone average. AZ has a lot of depth at CB and losing one punk-*** doesn't equate to all of the factors affecting our offense right now. This coaching staff has been to the playoffs almost every year they've been here and there's no lack of desire. You're the one trying to make excuses. I gave objective, observable. contributing FACTORS, not excuses.

 

[azrsx05]

Something I've thought about. I think we should trade away Mathews. I think he is very overrated. No denying he is a great athlete and has a motor. But I think he is replaceable. I think he is only good at pass rush and we have shown to have many of those. I think we could trade him for some big picks or maybe a good TE or ILB that are proven. With high picks we can get either of those positions filled and continue draft and develope. But really all Mathews is good is to get a few sacks, but his overaggresiveness allows for big plays on the other side.

 

[Half Empty]

you're right, 2010 was a lifetime ago. and all those guys were replaced by all pros that went on to have storied and amazing NFL careers right?

You know what else is old? People that can't give one of the best GM's and head coaches in the league a little credit. Fire them both today, and they'd be hired tomorrow, that's how much their peers respect and admire them. But you probably know better, I apologize

Read my post above his. No, the snarky comments about wanting/needing/expecting all-pro players at all positions doesn't fly when discussing 2010. Many of the 'next men up' were guys who had one really good year, and it was 2010.

Sure, TT and MM would be hired by someone else. One of the things that drives me nuts - in most careers, just having been one isn't justification for being one again, but 'NFL experience', even bad NFL experience (getting a little OT here, so not now talking about MM and TT) is worth more for getting hired than any other factor.

 

[PackerDNA]

If 2010 is getting old, why write about it after making that point? And of course Mondio is correct is writing it's more relevant than '96 or '67, since the same GM, HC and much of the staff is still in place. The bolded sentence is easy to write in hindsight. How does Thompson not deserve credit for having those players on the roster?

To make the point clear. All are past , which makes them irrelevant to now and tommorow. But for those who 2010 makes you feel better about now, knock yourselves out. Does nothing for me.

 

[PackerDNA]

Come on TJV, you damn well know that wasn't my point about 201o or the past. Why do you occasionally talk to people like they're slow, idiot children? You're better than that.
"we could still make a run, look at 2010"; "we've done it before", etc, etc. What happened in 2010 will have zero, zip, nada effect on what this team does. It won't help them score more points, be a factor in their WR's suddenly being able to get open and catch everything thrown their way, and so on. The past can be used as an indicator in many areas of life, but 2010 will have no effect on this football teams performance this weekend and beyond.
And "what have you done for me lately" is exactly what the NFL is.

 

[Carl]

Give it a rest, Mondio. 2010 is as relevant as 1996 or 1967. What we're talking about is here, now, today, and where this team is headed going forward. Yet say anything 'negative' about what is turning into a **** show of a season- that would be this season- and guys like you get all pissy and start yelling 2010.
Get a new material writer.

A "**** show of season" when we are about to play for the division and be in the playoffs next week.

By this crazy high standard, you wouldn't be happy with anyone on the Packers staff.

 

[TJV]

"we could still make a run, look at 2010"; "we've done it before", etc, etc. What happened in 2010 will have zero, zip, nada effect on what this team does. It won't help them score more points, be a factor in their WR's suddenly being able to get open and catch everything thrown their way, and so on. The past can be used as an indicator in many areas of life, but 2010 will have no effect on this football teams performance this weekend and beyond. And "what have you done for me lately" is exactly what the NFL is.

You're right, I got the threads confused. 2010 certainly is relevant to evaluating Thompson and McCarthy but that wasn't being discussed in this thread. As I wrote in the first sentence of post #31, the 2010 team going into the playoffs was playing much better football than this team. BTW, to the extent the NFL is "what have you done for me lately", it's a bad thing.