What one player are you most excited about this season?

[Pkrjones]

LaFleur used two running backs on only 26% of the offensive plays with the Titans last season. With the Packers having Rodgers at quarterback I definitely expect that number to decrease this season.

That may or may not be the case in 2019... but I don't expect Jamaal Williams to play 48.6% of the offensive snaps in '19, either.

 

[sschind]

That may or may not be the case in 2019... but I don't expect Jamaal Williams to play 48.6% of the offensive snaps in '19, either.

I sure as heck hope not because that would mean Aaron Jones is hurt or suspended again.

I gotta agree with Captain on this. I don't see any way Vitale gets close to 33% of the offensive snaps.

First of all I don't think he will get many snaps where he is the lone RB that means 2 RBs on the play most of the time when he is in which means only 2 WRs or no TEs and I don't think we will see that very often. I guess if he blocks well enough and Williams doesn't make the team its possible to see him as the lone back as a pass blocker on passing plays but even then O doubt its very often

 

[gbgary]

If Hollman can live up to his hype? We could get really good really fast. Imagine him being just good enough to bump Tramon down a spot and King being healthy. The tandem of Alexander, King and Hollman being backed up by Amos and Savage, with Tramon and Jackson filling in off the bench would be formidable.
My actuary table sais after all these past failed draft pics.. it’s that time we should luck out on a late round draft pick that plays up to first round grade

from what i'm hearing tramon's already been knocked down a notch. he's no longer the o/s cb opposite king. alexander is. tramon's been working the slot guy.

 

[gbgary]

I highly doubt Vitale plays anywhere close to 33% of the snaps this season.

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[OldSchool101]

The Packers offensive line actually has been pretty good in pass protection over the past few years.

I disagree with being “pretty good” last year in pass protection. What I see is a QB getting sacked more times than all but 2 QBs in the entire league. You don’t need anything more than that when considering the toll it takes on an aging, HOF QB with recent, multiple season ending injuries. Rodgers didn’t play one game without being sacked? He was sacked multiple times in all but 3 games and was sacked at least 4 times per game in 50% of the games he played in. BTW those #’s would’ve been worse had he not went out multiple times due to being mauled. Might’ve broken the 2018 sack record?​

If that’s “pretty good” I’d hate to see what “pretty bad” looks like. But I do absolutely believe others believe that illusion through last year.

I wonder how Roethlisberger, Brees and Brady faired? (Sarcasm)

 

[HardRightEdge]

This is a different offense than MM's so I'll stand by my desired 33+% going to the "Ultra Back" Vitale who may be paired with Jones/Williams, replace them on 3rd downs and/or get work as the H-Back/motion TE to create mismatches.

Did you watch preseason last year? There was nothing to suggest Vitale is on this roster to carry the ball. Blocking back, special teams, on the bubble or below. A few quick hit carries from the up back postion is about all you should expect if he actually makes the team and then the game day roster.

The strongest argument for Vitale is that Kendricks was the best and only TE who was decent at blocking from the up back position last year and he's gone. They tried Lewis there and it didn't work and switched to Kendricks. Sternberger does not improve that picture.

Besides, 2-back sets have been rapidly disappearing in the NFL for decades with the introduction of the slot receiver. It's just an occasional thing; many teams use 2-back sets rarely if at all.

 

[Arod2gjdd]

Savage

 

[OldSchool101]

It’s really tough to pick just “one” this year. I do believe having a dominant pass rusher (like a Mack) holds a lot of weight in the D makeup. If Gary reaches anywhere close to his ceiling, (it may take a year in the system) I believe his disruptive potential will turn the tide of our D being ahead of our O.

 

[McKnowledge]

Darnell Savage. If he lives up to his billing, he's going to change the way the Packers are able to play defense.

I agree. I still wish GB would've went after Derwin James in last year's draft. He was only a couple spots away and Gute had the assets to trade up for him. However, Savage could be a difference maker, not only for the defense, but the team overall could use it.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That may or may not be the case in 2019... but I don't expect Jamaal Williams to play 48.6% of the offensive snaps in '19, either.

I agree that Williams will mostly likely not play that many snaps in 2019 but Vitale won't receive a significant share of them.

I disagree with being “pretty good” last year in pass protection. What I see is a QB getting sacked more times than all but 2 QBs in the entire league. You don’t need anything more than that when considering the toll it takes on an aging, HOF QB with recent, multiple season ending injuries. Rodgers didn’t play one game without being sacked? He was sacked multiple times in all but 3 games and was sacked at least 4 times per game in 50% of the games he played in. BTW those #’s would’ve been worse had he not went out multiple times due to being mauled. Might’ve broken the 2018 sack record?​

If that’s “pretty good” I’d hate to see what “pretty bad” looks like. But I do absolutely believe others believe that illusion through last year.

Once again, there's no doubt Rodgers was sacked too often but nearly half of them weren't the fault of the offensive line. With AR extending plays more often than most quarterbacks it's extremely tough to protect him.

I stand by my statement that the starting OL is one of the best pass blocking units in the league.

Besides, 2-back sets have been rapidly disappearing in the NFL for decades with the introduction of the slot receiver. It's just an occasional thing; many teams use 2-back sets rarely if at all.

Teams used two back sets on 23% on runs last season, significantly down from 47% in 2011.

I agree. I still wish GB would've went after Derwin James in last year's draft. He was only a couple spots away and Gute had the assets to trade up for him.

Gutekunst could habe just drafted James at #14 instead of trading back before selecting Alexander.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Teams used two back sets on 23% on runs last season, significantly down from 47% in 2011.

And down from something close to 100%, and you wouldn't have to go back to the days of Taylor/Horning or Jim Brown/Ernie Green to find that. 1978 was a watershed moment with the rule changes that significantly shifted the advantage to the passing game: the 5 yard chuck rule and OL's now permitted to block with their hands which set in motion the gradual and unabated shift to the passing game.

If Belichick didn't "invent" the slot receiver or H-back positions as we know them, he elevated those concepts to a level worth copying in a copycat league, however gradual, with both of those shifts leading to the ongoing decline of the 2-back set.

While Welker may have been the first of the featured slot receivers with 100+ catches starting in 2007, it is generally overlooked that the Gronkowski/Hernandez tandem in 2010-2012 put the H-back on the map. Hernandez lined up frequently in the backfield, but ran the ball only 9 times over 3 seasons while catching 175 balls, a guy who could create linebacker mismatches in the passing game who could still block in the run game, a combination of talents that remains difficult to replicate. Defenses have since answered with smaller and faster "coverage linebackers", often converted strong safeties, who still need to defend the run between the tackles, another combination of talents difficult to find with the Packers looking for that answer with Jones and now Burks.

Long story short, the slot and H-back innovations continued the slow death of the 2-back set as we used to know it, with a fullback who would actually run the ball with some frequency. Today, the shrinking number of teams that actually use a fullback instead of the H-back don't hand him the ball very often, and even the H-back concept is evolving as we often see that player motion or set on the line a step back off the OT's shoulder and not counted as a backfield player.

 

[King_Pack]

Whilst it’s great to see a new found optimism for our defense and particularly the backs I am surprised at how much MVS has gone under the radar.

Sure, his season kind of fizzled out in the final few weeks but he was hardly operating in an offence firing on all cylinders, nevermind having nothing to play for.

It’s been great to read about his off season work with Randy Moss and I’m expecting him to be involved in more varied plays beyond simply stretching the field. Rodgers is a fan and his speed to size ratio sets him up for a big year (hopefully) littered with some huge plays of which we caught a glimpse last time out.

 

[bigbubbatd]

There are a lot of players I am excited about but I think Z. Smith is the guy for me. All the reports about him are high praise. The fact that he is giving Bahk a fight in one on one's has me excited. We haven't had an Olb like that since Clay in his prime. The last couple years Clay was able to be blocked one on one. If Smith can keep it up teams will have to give help which will make everyone else's job easier.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Gutekunst could habe just drafted James at #14 instead of trading back before selecting Alexander.

Right, but it gets more complicated because in the process of passing over James and trading back Gutekunst got New Orleans' #27 in 2018 and #30 in 2019.

The Packers traded the #27, a 3rd. rounder and a 6th. rounder to Seattle to pick Alexander at #17 plus a 7th. rounder from Seattle that went toward Donnerson.

Then in 2019 they traded the #30 from New Orleans along with two 4th. rounders to Seattle (again) in order to pick Savage at #21.

The net result of the trades is the Packers foregoing the right to draft James plus given up a 3rd. rounder, two 4th. rounders and a 6th. rounder in exchange for Alexander, Savage and Donnerson.

It is entirely premature to evaluate whether the Packers came out a winner in these deals, and to some degree we'll never know given who might have been picked with those mid-to-late rounders surrendered.

If one wishes to view it as Alexander or James, it needs to be qualified by saying that in effect those mid-to-low picks went toward Savage. Assessing winners and losers on these terms is a few years in the future.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Whilst it’s great to see a new found optimism for our defense and particularly the backs I am surprised at how much MVS has gone under the radar.

Sure, his season kind of fizzled out in the final few weeks but he was hardly operating in an offence firing on all cylinders, nevermind having nothing to play for.

It’s been great to read about his off season work with Randy Moss and I’m expecting him to be involved in more varied plays beyond simply stretching the field. Rodgers is a fan and his speed to size ratio sets him up for a big year (hopefully) littered with some huge plays of which we caught a glimpse last time out.

We talk a lot about QB-receiver chemistry, getting on the same page, which generally is taken to mean the receiver running the option route the QB expects and in the way he expects it, allowing the QB to throw the guy open. With the occasional exception, that takes time, repetition and money game experience which translates to receivers, including many first rounders we know now to be Pro Bowlers, not putting up big numbers in their rookie years.

There's another component of the Rodgers-MVS chemistry that I've observed but I've not heard anybody else comment on. Rodgers was not calibrated to MVS's speed last season, with underthrows then overthrows on deep balls. This too takes acclimation through repetition.

Two identical 40 times are not necessarily equal; acceleration curves among players with the same 40 times can be quite different. Some guys make a good time with quick release off the line. Some guys get their burst in the middle gears, James Jones in his prime would be an example. Some guys are more like 100 meter sprinters who hit peak acceleration around that 40 yard mark, Jordy Nelson being an example, which translates to "long speed". Nelson was a Kansas high school state champion at 100 meters, 200 meters, 400 meters and long jump. Nelson ran a 10.68 in the 100 as a high schooler. No one has ever broken an official 10.00 at that level. I'm not quite dialed in on how to characterize MVS but I'd say quick off the line then a smooth curve up to long speed in full stride.

It's not just go routes; there's the more subtle aspects of that timing, how a guy accelerates out of a break or a double move and the angle taken out of those moves. Long story short, it's a feel thing for the QB that develops over time along with confidence that the guy is going where the QB expects him to go. MVS was getting separation downfield. Now it's up to chemistry and feel to get to the next level of a legitimate deep threat. Aaron Rodgers can make this guy a very good receiver with some tuning on both his and the player's end. Getting safeties to lean that way is a victory in itself, opening up other possibilities.

 

[HardRightEdge]

That may or may not be the case in 2019... but I don't expect Jamaal Williams to play 48.6% of the offensive snaps in '19, either.

That will depend on whether Jones can stay on the field. Two seasons, 249 touches, three knee sprains. Knee sprains seem to be like hamstring pulls, the more you have the more likely you'll have another. Can Jones break the cycle? We'll see.

 

[OldSchool101]

With AR extending plays more often than most quarterbacks it's extremely tough to protect him.

I think I stand with the GB front office in deciding the recent OL was NOT pretty good. They showed that through their offseason acquisitions at various OL positions. GB drafted an OL this year at the highest pick in the last 8 drafts and we’ve only invested 2 OL (Spriggs at #48 overall) before day 3 since Derrick Sherrod. We didn’t lose any key starter in 2019 FA did we?

While Rodgers absolutely does try to extend plays as much as the next guy, we can’t assume 100% of him scrambling isn’t due in part to the pocket collapsing. I don’t see that as often with the Saints, I don’t see that pressure level with Tom Brady or the Steelers.
I watch Brady consistently step up and pick teams apart on a routine basis. That should be our goal of “very good” pass protection.
Its like a sore thumb on the stat sheet and it’s not all Aaron Rodgers. One could argue that #12 likely prevented a few more sacks with footwork and throwing the ball away.

These comparison teams all have one thing in common with GB, they possess high level QBs, they are QBs in their twilight years and they are more successful than not. They have one denominator that has recently been FAR from common and that is QB sacks. They differ in sack rankings from near first to near last as of recent.

So I stand by my earlier comment you responded to that said Rodgers and Kizer were getting mauled back there.

Btw. I actually agree with you in the now, however the current 2019 team is still being compiled so it had absolutely nothing to do with your comment of “recent past”. I think we both can agree getting Madison back, adding veteran Turner in FA and investing at OL with a 2nd rounder in the draft changes things quite a bit to our advantage later this season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Right, but it gets more complicated because in the process of passing over James and trading back Gutekunst got New Orleans' #27 in 2018 and #30 in 2019.

The Packers traded the #27, a 3rd. rounder and a 6th. rounder to Seattle to pick Alexander at #17 plus a 7th. rounder from Seattle that went toward Donnerson.

Then in 2019 they traded the #30 from New Orleans along with two 4th. rounders to Seattle (again) in order to pick Savage at #21.

The net result of the trades is the Packers foregoing the right to draft James plus given up a 3rd. rounder, two 4th. rounders and a 6th. rounder in exchange for Alexander, Savage and Donnerson.

It is entirely premature to evaluate whether the Packers came out a winner in these deals, and to some degree we'll never know given who might have been picked with those mid-to-late rounders surrendered.

If one wishes to view it as Alexander or James, it needs to be qualified by saying that in effect those mid-to-low picks went toward Savage. Assessing winners and losers on these terms is a few years in the future.

I was solely replying to the idea of the Packers having to trade up to select Derwin James. I understand the roster would look quite different at this point had Gutekunst drafted him.

I think I stand with the GB front office in deciding the recent OL was NOT pretty good. They showed that through their offseason acquisitions at various OL positions. GB drafted an OL this year at the highest pick in the last 8 drafts and we’ve only invested 2 OL (Spriggs at #48 overall) before day 3 since Derrick Sherrod. We didn’t lose any key starter in 2019 FA did we?

While Rodgers absolutely does try to extend plays as much as the next guy, we can’t assume 100% of him scrambling isn’t due in part to the pocket collapsing. I don’t see that as often with the Saints, I don’t see that pressure level with Tom Brady or the Steelers.
I watch Brady consistently step up and pick teams apart on a routine basis. That should be our goal of “very good” pass protection.
Its like a sore thumb on the stat sheet and it’s not all Aaron Rodgers. One could argue that #12 likely prevented a few more sacks with footwork and throwing the ball away.

These comparison teams all have one thing in common with GB, they possess high level QBs, they are QBs in their twilight years and they are more successful than not. They have one denominator that has recently been FAR from common and that is QB sacks. They differ in sack rankings from near first to near last as of recent.

So I stand by my earlier comment you responded to that said Rodgers and Kizer were getting mauled back there.

Btw. I actually agree with you in the now, however the current 2019 team is still being compiled so it had absolutely nothing to do with your comment of “recent past”. I think we both can agree getting Madison back, adding veteran Turner in FA and investing at OL with a 2nd rounder in the draft changes things quite a bit to our advantage later this season.

The Packers have two elite tackles as long as Bulaga is healthy and Linsley is one of the best centers in the league as well. It's true that both guards struggled at times last season but overall the unit was one of the best in pass protection as long as the starters were healthy.

All of the other quarterbacks you mentioned on average got rid of the ball at least .34 seconds faster than Rodgers, which is an eternity in pass protection and definitely a major factor in the total number of sacks given up.

 

[TDF]

I’m going to have to go with 2 players, I’m excited to see the safety play this season because it was an Achilles heel for the defense the last few seasons. Could be a huge boost for the D this season!

 

[Cheese Headed Monster]

Jake Kumerow, probably. There's been enough hype on him past two seasons and hope he doesn't turn into another .... you know who.

Yeah Jeff Kumerow! Er... I mean Jake Janis yeah!!! No thats not right....

 

[OldSchool101]

I was solely replying to the idea of the Packers having to trade up to select Derwin James. I understand the roster would look quite different at this point had Gutekunst drafted him.



The Packers have two elite tackles as long as Bulaga is healthy and Linsley is one of the best centers in the league as well. It's true that both guards struggled at times last season but overall the unit was one of the best in pass protection as long as the starters were healthy.

All of the other quarterbacks you mentioned on average got rid of the ball at least .34 seconds faster than Rodgers, which is an eternity in pass protection and definitely a major factor in the total number of sacks given up.

See. That there is where some debate comes up.

Is the fact that Aaron Rodgers scrambles any fault of the O Line?

While maybe not exclusively, the O Line takes the primary responsibility to protect him. They get all the credit when they do (might even get a new 4 Wheeler) and they suffer much of the blame when they don’t. It works both ways.

BTW, if you’re claiming the past O Line shouldn’t take a lions share of the responsibility of their QB being sacked near a league high number of times? I think that’s just avoiding focused responsibility and pointing blame elsewhere to support your position. The threat with that thinking is we go believing we’re great at O Line and don’t allocate proper resources to it.

Once again, I am thankful the FO didn’t see it that way at all in 2019. We can now reason by deduction that the FA and 2nd Round draft were evidence of that. It was not by chance that our FO spent more resources at that position than they have since at least 8 seasons ago (Derrick Sherrod) or more.

Whew. After all that I just realized that the person I’m most excited about is Aaron Rodgers! So thank you for that revelation!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Is the fact that Aaron Rodgers scrambles any fault of the O Line?

While sometimes the offensive line definitely deserves blame for Rodgers having to scramble you have to consider that he likes to move out of the pocket even when not being pressured to extend a play a ton of times as well.

While maybe not exclusively, the O Line takes the primary responsibility to protect him. They get all the credit when they do (might even get a new 4 Wheeler) and they suffer much of the blame when they don’t. It works both ways.

BTW, if you’re claiming the past O Line shouldn’t take a lions share of the responsibility of their QB being sacked near a league high number of times? I think that’s just avoiding focused responsibility and pointing blame elsewhere to support your position. The threat with that thinking is we go believing we’re great at O Line and don’t allocate proper resources to it.

Actually just taking a look at the total number of sacks to analyze offensive line play is a terrible way to make a fair evaluation. There are other factors having an affect on that number you completely ignore that way.

Once again, I am thankful the FO didn’t see it that way at all in 2019. We can now reason by deduction that the FA and 2nd Round draft were evidence of that. It was not by chance that our FO spent more resources at that position than they have since at least 8 seasons ago (Derrick Sherrod) or more.

I'm glad Gutekunst tried to address both guard positions this offseason but in my opinion there's absolutely no doubt an offensive line featuring Bakhtiari, Linsley and Bulaga should be considered one of the best pass blocking units in the league.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I am going with King or Jackson... I know it's only supposed to be one... And my reasoning is this... If either one excells and stays healthy I don't care which one it is... and bare any injuries if they are both healthy all year we could theoretically play out of a nickle or dime (saftey in a lb spot / 3 saftey) package for over 50% of the season... Josh and Kevin on the outside and jaire in the slot. Out of a 3-4 we could have the best matchup rotation of CB's in the league.

So along side Jaire Alexander... I look for one of those two guys to turn out to be the best CB duo if not trio in the league.. bar injury

It would be interesting to find out how good Kevin King could be if he stayed healthy for an entire season...He and Alexander could potentially make for one of the best sets of corners in the league.

Fingers crossed.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I've gone on the record as saying that the Packers drafted Gary WAY to high. For that reason I'm very excited for Gary to prove me wrong because the biggest positive step this defense can take is for the pass rush to become elite and, with free agency signings, Gary proving me wrong should mean the Packers would have a VERY strong pass rush.

 

[OldSchool101]

We won’t ever agree on that terminology, but that’s fine. I do know if Brian Bulaga stays healthy going forward we could finally get back to that type form, especially with Turner and the increased competition behind those guys. I’d like to see them get Elgton involved but I’m very comfortable with Bak, Taylor (or best option) Linsley, Turner and Bulaga.
I’d like to see us add one more premier guy next Offseason at LG. I also wonder if Elgton isn’t being groomed to replace Linsley at some juncture.

should be considered one of the best pass blocking units in the league.

I’m very interested in those 2 new higher profile additions (Elgton and Turner) and if the dynamics of that new lineup work smoothly.