What is MM'S Leash

[Mondio]

[QUOTE="Mondio, post: 686497, member: 10441"

The only way to get better at that game is to line up and do it, and he challenged them every week.

Which makes me ask the question, has MM lost this team?[/QUOTE]
i don't think it's even a consideration at this point. I read a couple transcripts from the interviews last night, and of the few I read, every player put it all on themselves for that loss last night. That's not a sign of a team that's not with their coach.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

i don't think it's even a consideration at this point. I read a couple transcripts from the interviews last night, and of the few I read, every player put it all on themselves for that loss last night. That's not a sign of a team that's not with their coach.

No player that wants to stay employed in the NFL goes out of his way to blame the coach, unless that player is a superstar. Do you really expect the players to start blaming the coach? However, Rodgers said the team wasn't ready to play, that's the coach's job, so Rodgers effectively blamed the coach.

However, McCarthy won a Super Bowl in 2010 on the back of a great defense and a great run by Rodgers so he's got a pass for life even though he's fielding one of the worst offenses in the NFL (24th in yards per play) with some of the best offensive players in the NFL. I can't think of a single Saints offensive player I would take over their counterpart on the Packers but the Saints are third in yards per play (and no, I don't care if someone can name two players they like more on the Saints offense, the point is that the Packers have better offensive players than the Saints but the Saints are doing FAR more with that talent).

 

[Deleted member 6794]

However, McCarthy won a Super Bowl in 2010 on the back of a great defense and a great run by Rodgers so he's got a pass for life even though he's fielding one of the worst offenses in the NFL (24th in yards per play) with some of the best offensive players in the NFL. I can't think of a single Saints offensive player I would take over their counterpart on the Packers but the Saints are third in yards per play (and no, I don't care if someone can name two players they like more on the Saints offense, the point is that the Packers have better offensive players than the Saints but the Saints are doing FAR more with that talent).

Yesterday's game should work as evidence that yards per play is a terrible metric to measure offensive performance as the Packers posted their second highest average this season against the Colts.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yesterday's game should work as evidence that yards per play is a terrible metric to measure offensive performance as the Packers posted their second highest average this season against the Colts.

Yeah, sure, one game sample certainly a better measuring stick than entire season....go to pro football reference and sort teams by yards per play. Show me a good offense that's low on the list and a bad offense that's high on the list. I'll save you time, there aren't any.

Oh, and through the first three quarters (before the Colts started playing prevent defense) the Packers averaged 4.8 yards per play. That would rank 30th in the NFL, with the Ravens. So no, the game against the Colts doesn't show anything.

Are people really arguing that the Packers offense is good? I mean, it's been awful for over a year and i find it weird how many people are willing to defend McCarthy in the face of all the evidence that the league has caught up to his offense and he doesn't know how to adjust. Packers have (had) the best QB in the NFL (he's still top-5 at worst) a very good offensive line and decent receivers (not great but certainly at least average). Yet the passing game is currently 28th in net yards per attempt. Why is McCarthy unable to generate a passing offense that scares anyone? The BROWNS average more yards per attempt than the Packers!

 

[pfcmsh]

I'd love to see how other teams do with no TE, an ineffective RB and their 4th, 5th and 6th WR options in the 2nd round of the playoffs. ANd I know this offense struggles against better defenses, it's a part of the game MM was trying to improve and it wasn't as much fun to watch as a fan. The only way to get better is to do it.

There are a lot of teams with as many injuries. Some teams have lost their starting QB, which is arguably the most important position on the team. I dont want us to hide behind injuries. Every team has them. We need to measure up each week. In football, the only time a team is fully healthy to play is at the start of training camp, assuming the previous year injuries are all recovered from. Part of the measure of a team is the way they respond to set backs. Do they make excuses, do they give up after the opening kick off is returned 99 yards for a touch down? Some do. Did we?

 

[Mondio]

There are a lot of teams with as many injuries. Some teams have lost their starting QB, which is arguably the most important position on the team. I dont want us to hide behind injuries. Every team has them. We need to measure up each week. In football, the only time a team is fully healthy to play is at the start of training camp, assuming the previous year injuries are all recovered from. Part of the measure of a team is the way they respond to set backs. Do they make excuses, do they give up after the opening kick off is returned 99 yards for a touch down? Some do. Did we?

We were talking about a round 2 playoff game from last year. Not many teams with all those injuries were in that position.

If you want to talk about last night, the team failed to make plays, scrubs and some our team leaders alike. They lost a game they should have won at home

 

[4Ever4Favre]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-packers-colts-offense

It's time the everyone starts waking up a little. Some know, some know it and won't accept it. This article is pretty spot on.

 

[Mondio]

No player that wants to stay employed in the NFL goes out of his way to blame the coach, unless that player is a superstar. Do you really expect the players to start blaming the coach? However, Rodgers said the team wasn't ready to play, that's the coach's job, so Rodgers effectively blamed the coach.

However, McCarthy won a Super Bowl in 2010 on the back of a great defense and a great run by Rodgers so he's got a pass for life even though he's fielding one of the worst offenses in the NFL (24th in yards per play) with some of the best offensive players in the NFL. I can't think of a single Saints offensive player I would take over their counterpart on the Packers but the Saints are third in yards per play (and no, I don't care if someone can name two players they like more on the Saints offense, the point is that the Packers have better offensive players than the Saints but the Saints are doing FAR more with that talent).

So you think McCarthy has lost the team and they're casing it in for the year?

 

[pfcmsh]

First off, Mike McCarthy is a great head coach. If he were fired at the end of the year, teams would bend over backwards to get him. I'll always be thankful for SB 45.

With all this said, how long do y'all think the leash is. Basically what would it take for him to be terminated? Missing playoffs? Early exit? Choke job in another championship type game? I'm not going out of my way to advocate his dismissal. Simply curious.

I agree that MM is a great head coach. That being said, he isnt winning the past 2 years. We play in a weak division. We have had the tremendous advantage of continuity in the the head coach, general manager, QB. These are critical pieces. Continuity adds to the victory total year in and year out because you hit the ground running, not relearning schemes and systems. Yet, we are a mediocre football team in a weak division. We started out hot, but after 3 games our combined opponents had a 4-5 record. Now we cant beat the Colts?

I feel that continuity breeds our problem. It is kind of like the government. Congressmen and Sentators should have term limits like the President. 8 years and out. Period. This is to bring in fresh ideas, prevent relaxing, try new things. We need change in our team and in the organization. Not wholesale change, like impedes the progress of many of our opponents, but well placed change. You can be a great head coach, but you have to use that greatness to win. Belichick does it year in and year out. Not just reaching the playoffs, like we are so proud to do, but advancing in the playoffs to the superbowl. Yes, MM is a great coach, but we are not headed in the right direction and we have enjoyed unprecedented continuity in head coach, general manager and QB. yet we are still mediocre. Time for change.

 

[PikeBadger]

your right, he shouldn't have, but he was and sometimes that happens to every single defense in the league when you're facing a potent passing attack. You can't have Deion Sanders covering everyone.

just like last night, everyone that complains incessantly is going to complain that the middle of the field was left open, and half of them are going to say he only rushed 3 guys, and they other half are going to complain because they completed a pass in the middle of the field. Neither group having a clue why, or what they're complaining about, they just complain.

I'm frustrated with this group too. It's like they can only play 2 our of 4 downs. On those 2 they look like world beaters, on 3rd or 4th they give it up in chunks it seems like. You couldn't give Clinton Dix any more of a free shot at a QB than he had last night to give our offense a chance to win it with plenty of time and he completely whiffed.

In the end, players have to make plays. Dix did not, Luck did. Our guys have not been making the plays this year. If Dix makes that sack and we win, he probably is named NFL Def. player of the week. We aren't the only team struggling but it certainly is painful to watch. The margins are thin in this league. There are 31 other teams with 53 professionals on their roster as well.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Are people really arguing that the Packers offense is good? I mean, it's been awful for over a year and i find it weird how many people are willing to defend McCarthy in the face of all the evidence that the league has caught up to his offense and he doesn't know how to adjust. Packers have (had) the best QB in the NFL (he's still top-5 at worst) a very good offensive line and decent receivers (not great but certainly at least average). Yet the passing game is currently 28th in net yards per attempt. Why is McCarthy unable to generate a passing offense that scares anyone? The BROWNS average more yards per attempt than the Packers!

I'm not arguing that the Packers offense is good by any means but that yards per play is a terrible metric to measure success. Do you really believe the Browns offense us better than the Packers???

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[longtimefan]

In the end, players have to make plays. Dix did not, Luck did. Our guys have not been making the plays this year. If Dix makes that sack and we win, he probably is named NFL Def. player of the week. We aren't the only team struggling but it certainly is painful to watch. The margins are thin in this league. There are 31 other teams with 53 professionals on their roster as well.

My issue .

Dix has two int. the offense does crap with two extra possessions

But people want to blame Dix For missing the sack?

Com'n...

 

[Mondio]

My issue .

Dix has two int. the offense does crap with two extra possessions

But people want to blame Dix For missing the sack?

Com'n...

I already admonished the offense for doing squat with a couple extra possessions. Nobody on this team helps each other out and picks someone else up, at least not consistently. 2 extra possessions and they did very little with it. one of those they threw right to him, the other was a good read and made it over there to pick it, but still, it was 2 extra possessions.

Then the offense is showing life and we need a defensive stop, and they're in a perfect position to do it, Dix is set up perfectly to give it back to us and he whiffs. Pick a brother up man. I know the offense was disappointing, but they got things going, get them the ball back. and offense, when the defense gives you extra chances, ****ing do something with it. and if the defense is having a bad day, you have a great day. pick somebody up. Poor throw, make a great catch. great throw, catch the damn thing. giving up lots of return yards? Return one of your own? do something.

 

[PikeBadger]

My issue .

Dix has two int. the offense does crap with two extra possessions

But people want to blame Dix For missing the sack?

Com'n...

Didn't mean to assess blame just noted that Luck successfully out-maneuvered Dix on that play. We need those plays to be made to win. We aren't getting plays consistently made by veteran players. That and dropped balls is the difference between wins and losses right now.

 

[swhitset]

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/11/aaron-rodgers-mike-mccarthy-packers-colts-offense

It's time the everyone starts waking up a little. Some know, some know it and won't accept it. This article is pretty spot on.

This article is not even current it is dated today, and yet nothing the writer talks about is accurate. It talks about the Packers having a great running back in Eddy Lacy.... ? hmm.. The first paragraph complains that Rodgers isn't taking any shots downfield.... I will admit to not following a lot of the current sports writers ... but while I don't know who this guy is... he is not watching Packer games. Rodgers has been looking very mobile to me... being the Packer's leading rusher in some games.. he has been dancing all over the backfield all season, and as was discussed in several threads here... he has been taking too many shots downfield when the most success has been gleaned from the short passing game.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I'm not arguing that the Packers offense is good by any means but that yards per play is a terrible metric to measure success. Do you really believe the Browns offense us better than the Packers???

The Browns have a better passing game than the Packers but they have a worse QB that turns the ball over. Yeah, the Browns feature a more explosive passing game than the Packers.

Or am I supposed to believe that a team that can manage ONE 20+ yard completion against a bad Colts defense is a good passing offense? Please, give me the excuses about why this Packer's offense is one of the most impotent in the league but is in fact a good offense.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

So you think McCarthy has lost the team and they're casing it in for the year?

No, I think the NFL has caught up to McCarthy's offense and knows the route concepts that he loves and how to defend them. I think McCarthy has lost his team because he refuses to adjust and it would be unrealistic to think the players aren't aware of how stale and predictable this offense is. I mean, it took massive injuries at the RB position for McCarthy to try something new on offense. It's been pointed out before but McCarthy is very stubborn on offense and I don't think he's capable of changing things to compensate for Rodgers getting slightly worse with age and with less talent on offense than he's had in the past; he used to win on offense because the players were just better than the defenders, I haven't seen anything to prove he can win when his offense isn't full of great players.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Browns have a better passing game than the Packers but they have a worse QB that turns the ball over. Yeah, the Browns feature a more explosive passing game than the Packers.

Or am I supposed to believe that a team that can manage ONE 20+ yard completion against a bad Colts defense is a good passing offense? Please, give me the excuses about why this Packer's offense is one of the most impotent in the league but is in fact a good offense.

It seems you have trouble understanding my posts. I'm not arguing the Packers offense has been good this season but the unit is for sure better than the Browns.

 

[swhitset]

The Browns have a better passing game than the Packers but they have a worse QB that turns the ball over. Yeah, the Browns feature a more explosive passing game than the Packers.

Or am I supposed to believe that a team that can manage ONE 20+ yard completion against a bad Colts defense is a good passing offense? Please, give me the excuses about why this Packer's offense is one of the most impotent in the league but is in fact a good offense.

I have been reading your arguments all over the forum, and it seems to me that your single argument phrased In as many ways as you can come up with boils down to "long passes = good offense" short passes = bad offense". Not all of us agree with this. I too think the Packers offense is not very good right now. we just disagree as to why.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

It seems you have trouble understanding my posts. I'm not arguing the Packers offense has been good this season but the unit is for sure better than the Browns.

Yes, i was using the Browns as an extreme example to point out that the Packers passing game is anemic. I understand that some people feel like a passing game that has the QB throw 45+ times for almost 300 yards is a good passing game. I tend to believe that volume isn't a good metric for offensive skill.

Since we got sidetracked on the Browns, perhaps you would explain, if you believe it, how the Packers passing game is anywhere even close to where it should be given the talent on offense that the Packers field?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Since we got sidetracked on the Browns, perhaps you would explain, if you believe it, how the Packers passing game is anywhere even close to where it should be given the talent on offense that the Packers field?

I try to explain it to you for the third and final time, I don't think the Packers passing game is performing anywhere close to my expectations.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I have been reading your arguments all over the forum, and it seems to me that your single argument phrased In as many ways as you can come up with boils down to "long passes = good offense" short passes = bad offense". Not all of us agree with this. I too think the Packers offense is not very good right now. we just disagree as to why.

My main issue isn't that there are a ton of short passes, short passes are fine in moderation. I'm just trying to break through this barrier that some seem to have that McCarthy is actually helping the offense and the Alex Smith style of the Packer's offense is the result of stale offensive design. The Packers have an average to above-average receiving group, an elite pass blocking offensive line and a top-5 QB in the NFL yet the passing game doesn't scare anyone. I read continually about how the defense is letting the team down and the receivers aren't great and Rodgers is forcing the ball but not many pointing out that McCarthy is doing a far worse job on offense than Capers is doing on defense.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I try to explain it to you for the third and final time, I don't think the Packers passing game is performing anywhere close to my expectations.

Thanks. I need to point out that what you wrote is more in the line of a statement than an explanation though. See, what I would like to know are the actual reasons that people support the contention that McCarthy is doing something positive. I understand you are not one of those people. But just saying "XYZ is good/bad" isn't an explanation, it's an opinion.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My main issue isn't that there are a ton of short passes, short passes are fine in moderation. I'm just trying to break through this barrier that some seem to have that McCarthy is actually helping the offense and the Alex Smith style of the Packer's offense is the result of stale offensive design. The Packers have an average to above-average receiving group, an elite pass blocking offensive line and a top-5 QB in the NFL yet the passing game doesn't scare anyone. I read continually about how the defense is letting the team down and the receivers aren't great and Rodgers is forcing the ball but not many pointing out that McCarthy is doing a far worse job on offense than Capers is doing on defense.

The Packers offense performed on a higher level mostly relying on short passes from week 6-8 than throwing it down the field vs. the Colts though. There's no reason to force the deep passing game but use it once it opens up because of the defense adjusting to Rodgers completing high percentage throws.