Week 6 - Denver - Studs and Duds

[gopkrs]

Him being healthy and here eliminates the need to force yourself into the CB discussion in 2023 draft as hard....but if he is not and Stokes may be going down same road we honest to God may want to be strongly considering a top end CB on Day1.

Actually, you can't have too many of them. But I'm hoping we're looking to get a good O line next draft. And I don't want a lot of hoping. Draft them early and draft one more than the minimum.

 

[tynimiller]

Actually, you can't have too many of them. But I'm hoping we're looking to get a good O line next draft. And I don't want a lot of hoping. Draft them early and draft one more than the minimum.

Truthfully I would love an interior OL and a Tackle in the first 100 picks. I don't care if Gute trades back, trades up...but get me two guys I think have a strong chance of starting....

Give me a Jordan Morgan or JC Latham or a Kingsley Suamataia at OT and a iOL like Christian Haynes or a center in Van Pran and I'll be VERY ecstatic and hopeful. Tom can slide to Tackle, Guard or Center depending how the draft washes out. WOULD LOVE to make Myers a back up, which would be a very above average backup but is an average starter at best.

 

[OldSchool101]

Truthfully I would love an interior OL and a Tackle in the first 100 picks. I don't care if Gute trades back, trades up...but get me two guys I think have a strong chance of starting....

Give me a Jordan Morgan or JC Latham or a Kingsley Suamataia at OT and a iOL like Christian Haynes or a center in Van Pran and I'll be VERY ecstatic and hopeful. Tom can slide to Tackle, Guard or Center depending how the draft washes out. WOULD LOVE to make Myers a back up, which would be a very above average backup but is an average starter at best.

I’m with you in that. I’d draft a C and Tackle in the top 100. I also love what we did last draft trading back in micro fashion to get more picks.
It’s what I’ve been doing in interactive Mocks. I never walk away with at MINIMUM Sean Paul at Tackle or a good Center.

 

[mradtke66]

I’m with you in that. I’d draft a C and Tackle in the top 100. I also love what we did last draft trading back in micro fashion to get more picks.
It’s what I’ve been doing in interactive Mocks. I never walk away with at MINIMUM Sean Paul at Tackle or a good Center.

Left Tackle should be addressed somehow, but I'm loathe to ignore pass catchers or other playmaker position. We're currently picking 7th overall. 3 through 10 all have only 2 wins.

If we end up picking in the top 5, then we should be looking for the kind of player that can tip the field by himself. You don't want to be picking early often, so I hope there is a special WR, DE/Edge, or CB there for the taking.

 

[milani]

So a guy isn't an either/or in my book - if you are not a dud, it doesn't mean stud and if you aren't a stud it doesn't mean dud.

Love truthfully made some poor reads, would really like a couple throws back for sure, but all in all he executed MLF's terrible first half playcalls and then in the third again like he has done shows that his ceiling and ability to make some throws are very high level. Right now Love is kinda like the QB version of Lazard was early in his career...dude often times is going to leave the game with some highlight blocks or catches that are CLUTCH, but also just not be what you want him to be....and with that comes some fair and also too harsh of criticism. Unlike Lazard however, Love is a QB and is dealing with an ignorantly young supporting cast of the likes Rodgers or Favre never had to...BUT also a struggling MLF when it comes to playcalls too.

Love is an enigma I'm struggling with...like Rodgers has said about Love, I love the kid and see the high level skills and throws BUT man it would be nice to see him with a healthy OL and just a guy or two that are experienced and aren't out there making mistakes or misreads....grading Love truly is tough right now...and is why however one thing I am certain on him - I'm not discussing an extension regardless of how the rest of this season goes. That's for next year only and maybe after it as well.

But this is where a good HC or what we call now, QB coach, has to school a young QB if he has that talent. I am sure Bill Belichick has been dealing with that since Brady left. Practice is not always execution. It is to create situations and options in those situations.

 

[milani]

Dud

MLF

He loves AJ Dillon. He is more concerned with proving that Dillon is useful than utilizing the young, dynamic players that we supposedly have. The stubbornness is maddening. Dillon can have a role, but you don't win in the 2023 NFL featuring players like him. Their obsession with Dillon offends me.

If Jones isn't healthy enough to play, don't roster him; if he is, use him.

I was surprised that Jones was not out there on that last series. Sure Dillon can hit a tackler and drive him for extra yardage. But it was Jones who caught 2 passes against the Bears in a close game for big yardage. And we needed one yesterday.

 

[OldSchool101]

Left Tackle should be addressed somehow, but I'm loathe to ignore pass catchers or other playmaker position. We're currently picking 7th overall. 3 through 10 all have only 2 wins.

If we end up picking in the top 5, then we should be looking for the kind of player that can tip the field by himself. You don't want to be picking early often, so I hope there is a special WR, DE/Edge, or CB there for the taking.

Or QB

I say that jokingly. However if Drake Maye or Caleb Williams was at our selection? I’d make a QB competition out of next year. Luckily even with both QB’s we’d be around $30mil output compensation in that room

If Jordan wins the battle, having another premier backup gives us negotiating power. Hard to ask too much money we might just move on without a Jordan Love contract and him going to market isn’t a guaranteed better deal. He’s any Easy cut or trade at $13mil dead thanks to crafty maneuvering by QB restructure.

The trade value for a 2024 drafted QB’s doesn’t fade much after 1-2 years on the job training if they remain our #2 QB. We also retain the benefit of filling holes with our TWO Top 40 picks and ONE Top #70 draft picks.

We haven’t even discussed Sean Clifford. I still think he might be starter level. Different style, but he’s very intelligent and great success at a great program there with Penn State

 

[mradtke66]

Or QB

You're not wrong, but I worry any QB we get isn't going to do much with this offense.

Jones is going to be a year older next year. Dillon is likely gone. Deguara is likely gone. That leaves us with 2 3rd year players in starter positions (Watson a Doubs), Reed as the presumed slot, and (I think) 3 second year players at TE. The players we return are all pretty good, but other than Watson (imho) they are all role players. And Watson struggles to stay healthy.

Rodgers struggled with this crew last year, until Watson got healthy. Love is struggling this year. Hell, Mahomes struggled against the Lions w/o Kelsey. Who is this team's Kelsey? Who is their Adams? Dreaming big, maybe their Julio Jones is there when they are on the clock for 2024.

I suspect the FO is prepared to give Love the 2 years on this extension. They invested in Reed and both TEs this year. Hopefully both grow next year AND you snag some kind of offensive playmaker. If Love is again terrible in 2024, then you're likely picking to 10 (cough 5 cough) again and then you go back to the QB well.

Regarding Love...I'm so torn. I'm worried because accuracy is something that is hard to improve on. I'm hopeful because it looks like mechanics issues. If he would set his feet and drive the ball, at least more often, I think his accuracy would improve. He has to learn that he's not Brett, he's not Aaron. He is not the physical freak to attempt a fall away jumper with just a flick of the wrist and get it there on time and on target. Even Rodgers had to remember that and recommit to better mechanics more-often.

 

[OldSchool101]

You're not wrong, but I worry any QB we get isn't going to do much with this offense.

Jones is going to be a year older next year. Dillon is likely gone. Deguara is likely gone. That leaves us with 2 3rd year players in starter positions (Watson a Doubs), Reed as the presumed slot, and (I think) 3 second year players at TE. The players we return are all pretty good, but other than Watson (imho) they are all role players. And Watson struggles to stay healthy.

Rodgers struggled with this crew last year, until Watson got healthy. Love is struggling this year. Hell, Mahomes struggled against the Lions w/o Kelsey. Who is this team's Kelsey? Who is their Adams? Dreaming big, maybe their Julio Jones is there when they are on the clock for 2024.

I suspect the FO is prepared to give Love the 2 years on this extension. They invested in Reed and both TEs this year. Hopefully both grow next year AND you snag some kind of offensive playmaker. If Love is again terrible in 2024, then you're likely picking to 10 (cough 5 cough) again and then you go back to the QB well.

Regarding Love...I'm so torn. I'm worried because accuracy is something that is hard to improve on. I'm hopeful because it looks like mechanics issues. If he would set his feet and drive the ball, at least more often, I think his accuracy would improve. He has to learn that he's not Brett, he's not Aaron. He is not the physical freak to attempt a fall away jumper with just a flick of the wrist and get it there on time and on target. Even Rodgers had to remember that and recommit to better mechanics more-often.

I agree with this

We should be able to get 1-2 good FA adds next season, plus 1-2 earlier talented picks to replace weak links. Then you expect to see growth across the others in year 2/3

Add a #7 overall Tackle (etc)

Add an upper echelon FA veteran Guard/Center in 2024

Add a medium to lower echelon Veteran TE who’s a great blocker but with adequate short play ability as a Receiver.

Add 1 RB, 1 WR inside that top #110 overall (our first 5 selections)

We might be surprised what our Offense can do

 

[mradtke66]

We should be able to get 1-2 good FA adds next season,

I am routinely skeptical of FAs making that big of an impact. The really good ones don't make it to FA. And you over pay for them, since you have 30 other teams bidding on them. And maybe they don't want to leave the 32nd team and are using FA to decide on a price. And of course, we should pay Gary as he's probably our best player right now.

Our best bet it to plug some obvious holes/deficiencies, not find good starters. I wouldn't mind a 2nd tier TE to help bridge the gap. A Deguara that can H-back AND play inline at least part time...if one is out there. Checking 2024 FAs...I don't know enough about any of the guys under 30.

At LT, there are current 4 2024 FAs. Donovan Smith is the only one of the 4 who will be under 33 at the start of 2024. I'll pass.

At RT, there are 9. I don't recognize any of them (other than Billy Turner, but I think he's over the hill), so I cannot comment on any of them being worth trying to sign.

G and C I have the same answer as RT.

 

[Schultz]

That, and to prove his immaturity, he is asking for ownership in any team he gets drafted by. I'd prefer Ewers and Mayes.

I ran the numbers last week. There would be some major dead money by trading him. Because of that, I don't think it happens.

Nothing wrong with Williams being an owner in GB. Heck they can give him 2 certificates.

 

[mradtke66]

Add a #7 overall Tackle (etc)

As much as I want a good LT, I don't think they are typically worth a top 10 selection. Jake Long w/ the Dolphins, Joe Thomas w/ the Browns. The solve a problem, but they don't make elevate you to a playoff team. If we're picking that early, I want someone that scares the other team.

The best OT in the world cannot block two men, but many good EDGE players can demand a double team. Excellent WRs can also demand a double team.

I'd rather take our (hopeful) LT of the future in the second round. Or if someone they covet drops, trading back late into the first. We have the capital to do so, if it makes sense.

Add an upper echelon FA veteran Guard/Center in 2024

I don't think there are any of these. By all means, look over the list and tell me know you want: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/guard/

Add a medium to lower echelon Veteran TE who’s a great blocker but with adequate short play ability as a Receiver.

Same as guard, I'm not sure there is anyone I want from this list, but I do agree this is the type of player we should look for AND has a reasonable chance of being available. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/tight-end//

 

[PikeBadger]

I would put more blame on LaFleur than Love. Couple of bad decisions and poor accuracy are on Love. Lack of open WRs, and the team being flat, and playcalling are all on MLF.

My sentiments exactly. This season is ALL on the coaching staff imo.

 

[PikeBadger]

And the pass to Watson. Low and behind, causing him to go down on his knee and twist. Allowing the defender to clobber him and hurt his knee.

At minimum, he should have lead him.

Same as Favre who was a master at getting his receivers destroyed.

 

[mradtke66]

Same as Favre who was a master at getting his receivers destroyed.

Different issue.

Favre had no issue hanging you out to try if it meant getting a 1st down. You'd probably get the wind knocked out, perhaps a concussion. ( I hate to say ONLY a concussion, but the league viewed the different in the 90s)

The bad throw to Watson was something different entirely. It was just a really bad throw and Watson tried to bail out his quarterback. The throw was bad enough that he couldn't and he put himself in a bad physical position to try.

 

[AmishMafia]

Rewatched some of the game. A few of the bad plays I blamed Love for were the result of poor protection. Others were still Love's fault. He can also be blamed for trying to make something happen when there is little hope. Just throw it out of bounds, young man!

 

[AmishMafia]

Different issue.

Favre had no issue hanging you out to try if it meant getting a 1st down. You'd probably get the wind knocked out, perhaps a concussion. ( I hate to say ONLY a concussion, but the league viewed the different in the 90s)

The bad throw to Watson was something different entirely. It was just a really bad throw and Watson tried to bail out his quarterback. The throw was bad enough that he couldn't and he put himself in a bad physical position to try.

The league may have viewed brain damage differently but I can assure you the receivers did not. And I recall it being brought up on multiple occassions by announcers or talking heads - so it's not like it wasn't a thing.

 

[AmishMafia]

As much as I want a good LT, I don't think they are typically worth a top 10 selection. Jake Long w/ the Dolphins, Joe Thomas w/ the Browns. The solve a problem, but they don't make elevate you to a playoff team. If we're picking that early, I want someone that scares the other team.

The best OT in the world cannot block two men, but many good EDGE players can demand a double team. Excellent WRs can also demand a double team.

I'd rather take our (hopeful) LT of the future in the second round. Or if someone they covet drops, trading back late into the first. We have the capital to do so, if it makes sense.



I don't think there are any of these. By all means, look over the list and tell me know you want: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/guard/



Same as guard, I'm not sure there is anyone I want from this list, but I do agree this is the type of player we should look for AND has a reasonable chance of being available. https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/tight-end//

Control the line of scrimmage and you control the game. Give me an OT this season. Not a sexey pick, but it helps the s exy picks be sex-e. Give your QB a clean pocket to work in, an extra second for WRs to get open, and an extra 1' of hole RB to run through and this offense does a better.

That being said, there maybe some decent OTs available with our 2nd rounders, but tough to say how things will shake out by draft time.

 

[mradtke66]

Control the line of scrimmage and you control the game. Give me an OT this season. Not a sexey pick, but it helps the s exy picks be sex-e. Give your QB a clean pocket to work in, an extra second for WRs to get open, and an extra 1' of hole RB to run through and this offense does a better.

I do agree that a good line helps the offense go. The issue is you hit the point of diminishing returns (imo.) A Toyota line probably can get you to the Super Bowl, if you've got a couple of Lexuses at the skills position. Meanwhile, a Cadillac LT and a restored 1980s square body at WR might mean a .500 season. (Everything is cars.)

In a more real-world example, I'd expect more wins with Moss (1st) and Clifton (2nd) vs. Joe Thomas (1st) and James Jones (3rd.) I realize that isn't entire fair or perfectly apples-to-apples, but hopefully the intent is clear.

I think the trap we often fall into is, "LT is the biggest hole, ergo, we should spend our biggest draft pick at that position." Which leads to potentially bad decisions.

That being said, there maybe some decent OTs available with our 2nd rounders, but tough to say how things will shake out by draft time.

Agreed that we won't know until the draft is at hand. I also agree that I'd rather spend a 2nd (or even both 2nds) on a offensive lineman.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

Like I been saying from the beginning
J-Lo Doesn't have the confidence to be a great QB. Put Sean Clifford in there and let him rip. Even with that I don't think this team is going anywhere with MLF&Barry stearing the ship.