Vikings will win the Division

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AmishMafia

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You're well aware that I was talking about the last few years of Thompson's tenure as the Packers general manager. There's no doubt at all that he left the roster with a complete lack of talent at several positions.
It is ridiculous to look at only a portion of the evidence. May as well say the problem has been Rodgers who is not an NFL QB who can make even an easy throw. (Of course I am only looking at the last 2 failed pass attempts from last game)
I'm absolutely fine with giving MVS, Lazard, EQ and other receivers time to develop. The main point being that the Packers shouldn't rely on one of them being able to fill the #2 spot next season.
Should we rely on a rookie then? Only Greg Jennings had an impact as a rookie. Most WRs take a few years.
With that being said I'm in favor of improving depth on the offensive line as well. But if the team retains Bulaga WR and TE are in more dire need of an upgrade.
Like WRs, OL take time to develop. Don't count on another Jenkins. We are on borrowed time with Bulaga. His reliability as been spotty. We should not wait till he is out of the NFL before we find his replacement.
 

swhitset

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There is a WR open on many plays when a pass is not completed. You only need one WR open per play. Having two open WRs does not really help the offense.

I think most of our passing game issues are not WR related but QB. I don't think AR is washed up, he just isn't comfortable in the new offense. I think he will play much better next year. He just needs more time and comfort to start trusting himself in it.

As far as our OLine goes, the excuse for AR not throwing to open WRs is often 'well what do you expect, he was running for his life back there'. It can't be both.

Your analogy with the HOFers is fine. However there is the thought of synergies as well. Yes you could get by with a low level player at MLB, but what if you could get a Ray Lewis. Can you imagine the Havoc that man could have done with 4 HOF DL in front of him? I have thought about the 2 philosophies and would just go with BPA. If you can get good player you do it regardless of the talent level of other players already on the team.
that first statement is just silly ... and shouldn’t even require an explanation as to why. If a QB has two seconds to assess the field the odds of him seeing the open receiver double if there are two of them instead of only 1.
 

AmishMafia

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that first statement is just silly ... and shouldn’t even require an explanation as to why. If a QB has two seconds to assess the field the odds of him seeing the open receiver double if there are two of them instead of only 1.
Or, next year with a OL upgrade he may have 2.5 seconds to assess the field. AR may feel better in the offense, understanding who is likely open based on defense. Instead of having 1.5 open WRs on average he has 2 based on WR improvement.
 

mradtke66

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Or, next year with a OL upgrade he may have 2.5 seconds to assess the field.

I guess this is the sentiment I take issue with. The current group can and does give 2.5 seconds, reliably.

Anything can be improved, but to improve the pass blocking, as a whole, will be difficult for the Packers. It would probably take three years of spending a no.1 pick and hitting on all three, to give measurable improvement. They really are a good, complete pass blocking unit. To completely make something up, I suspect we'd have to draft O-Line 3 consecutive years no. 1, and hit on all three, to reliably improve the unit.

To my eye, our protection tends to get beat with blitzing. This makes sense--if you rush more people than blockers (or overload a side), the rushers will win.

The counter to sending extra rushers is getting the ball out quickly and/or punishing them for taking players out of coverage. We are currently unable to effectively execute this counter because we don't have a 2rd or 3rd guy who can run a good hot-route and get open in a hurry. Sure, Adams can, you can scheme around one guy.

Our interior has played pretty well, Bhak appears to be dealing with a bad back, he could return to form assuming rest fixes him. Bulaga is getting old and will need to be replaced--he might not even be re-signed based on his age and injury history. But replacing him with a 1:1 quality will be rough.

Though even that points out something interesting--our Super Bowl line was no better than the current version:
  • Chad Clifton was super glue, duct tape, and grit--current Bhak is better.
  • Colledge? I say Jenkins is better.
  • Wells vs. Linsley--probably a push.
  • Sitton vs. Turn, advantage 2010 team.
  • Rookie Bulaga vs. Current Bulaga: advantage 2019. Rookie Bulaga had some pretty obvious holes and weaknesses in his game.

But even that grouping was plenty to win the Super Bowl.
 

AmishMafia

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I guess this is the sentiment I take issue with. The current group can and does give 2.5 seconds, reliably.

Anything can be improved, but to improve the pass blocking, as a whole, will be difficult for the Packers. It would probably take three years of spending a no.1 pick and hitting on all three, to give measurable improvement. They really are a good, complete pass blocking unit. To completely make something up, I suspect we'd have to draft O-Line 3 consecutive years no. 1, and hit on all three, to reliably improve the unit.

To my eye, our protection tends to get beat with blitzing. This makes sense--if you rush more people than blockers (or overload a side), the rushers will win.

The counter to sending extra rushers is getting the ball out quickly and/or punishing them for taking players out of coverage. We are currently unable to effectively execute this counter because we don't have a 2rd or 3rd guy who can run a good hot-route and get open in a hurry. Sure, Adams can, you can scheme around one guy.

Our interior has played pretty well, Bhak appears to be dealing with a bad back, he could return to form assuming rest fixes him. Bulaga is getting old and will need to be replaced--he might not even be re-signed based on his age and injury history. But replacing him with a 1:1 quality will be rough.

Though even that points out something interesting--our Super Bowl line was no better than the current version:
  • Chad Clifton was super glue, duct tape, and grit--current Bhak is better.
  • Colledge? I say Jenkins is better.
  • Wells vs. Linsley--probably a push.
  • Sitton vs. Turn, advantage 2010 team.
  • Rookie Bulaga vs. Current Bulaga: advantage 2019. Rookie Bulaga had some pretty obvious holes and weaknesses in his game.

But even that grouping was plenty to win the Super Bowl.
I can agree with most of that.

I do see our OL playing well this season, and maybe good enough. But I don't expect that going forward. I doubt we pay Bulaga. He is just too fragile, this year not withstanding. I am concerned with Bahk. A bad back may explain it, but those can be career ending too.

There are lots of ways to win a SB, and having an OL that dominates would certainly help.
 

milani

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You're well aware that I was talking about the last few years of Thompson's tenure as the Packers general manager. There's no doubt at all that he left the roster with a complete lack of talent at several positions.



I'm absolutely fine with giving MVS, Lazard, EQ and other receivers time to develop. The main point being that the Packers shouldn't rely on one of them being able to fill the #2 spot next season.



The Packers approached the receiver position that way this season and it hasn't worked out as planned.

Actually I want the Packers to be proactive addressing needs, therefore I was advocating for them to bring in a veteran receiver last offseason.

With that being said I'm in favor of improving depth on the offensive line as well. But if the team retains Bulaga WR and TE are in more dire need of an upgrade.
 

milani

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Very good analysis. Championship teams are usually built first with their offensive and defensive lines. As far as Thompson I never liked the guy. He is , however, a very good business manager. If he had been a politician his first priority would be to cut Federal spending. But I wanted him gone even when he won the SB. I knew he would never be able to improve us as other teams did. The fact that he was content in 2010 to let Brandon Jackson remain our starting RB was nonsense. And after 2004 he refused to sign just one of our 2 guards, Marco Rivera or Mike Wahle. Our offense paid dearly for it. With that said a Bulaga replacement and a TE are paramount.

 
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Should we rely on a rookie then? Only Greg Jennings had an impact as a rookie. Most WRs take a few years.

Like WRs, OL take time to develop. Don't count on another Jenkins. We are on borrowed time with Bulaga. His reliability as been spotty. We should not wait till he is out of the NFL before we find his replacement.

The Packers should use an early rounder on a wide receiver in next year's draft. With the 2020 class being extremely deep at the position it might be possible to select obe having an immediate impact as the #2 on the depth chart behind Adams.

At that moment the team has four offensive linemen starting that performed at a high level as rookies. Therefore I'm confident Gutekunst should be able to find a replacement for Bulaga in next year's draft as well.

As far as Thompson I never liked the guy. But I wanted him gone even when he won the SB. I knew he would never be able to improve us as other teams did. The fact that he was content in 2010 to let Brandon Jackson remain our starting RB was nonsense. And after 2004 he refused to sign just one of our 2 guards, Marco Rivera or Mike Wahle. Our offense paid dearly for it.

Thompson was a great general manager early during his tenure with the Packers and definitely deserves credit for building a Super Bowl champion. Unfortunately it took the team too long to replace him after he lost it over the past few years with the team.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Is it just me or has the talk about the Vikings winning the Division diminished a bit? :tup:

All I know is that the Packers will still lead the North going into the final week of play, no matter what happens on Monday night. As a matter of fact, this is the way the season has panned out as far as who leads the North after each week.

After Week 1: Packers
2: Packers
3: Packers
4: Packers
5: Packers
6: Packers
7: Packers
8: Packers
9: Packers
10: Packers
11: Packers
12: Packers
13: Packers
14: Packers
15: Packers
16: Book it already....Packers
17:???kers
 
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Is it just me or has the talk about the Vikings winning the Division diminished a bit? :tup:

All I know is that the Packers will still lead the North going into the final week of play, no matter what happens on Monday night. As a matter of fact, this is the way the season has panned out as far as who leads the North after each week.

After Week 1: Packers
2: Packers
3: Packers
4: Packers
5: Packers
6: Packers
7: Packers
8: Packers
9: Packers
10: Packers
11: Packers
12: Packers
13: Packers
14: Packers
15: Packers
16: Book it already....Packers
17:???kers
Hey look at the bright side. WI Mike broke the record for the most X ‘s from a single post.

While those
X are not necessarily desirable and yet highly impressive at the same time, it’s certainly nominated for the “most disagreeable” post/thread of 2019. Give a man credit where credit is due.

As your evidence shows, the only thing in question thus far is the level of disagreement throughout the season. It began a slippery slide from a PH of 7.1 and is just now approaching the PH of Sodium Hydroxide (Ironically also know as a “Lye”)
Nicely done Mike! :tup:
 
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Pokerbrat2000

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it’s certainly nominated for either the “most disagreeable” post/thread of 2019. Give a man credit where credit is due.

That would be kind of fun to have an end of year "Best/Worst/Funny....Etc. of 2019" vote.

i nominate you....to organize and host it. :D :coffee:
 
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I think there is close to two dozen on a post from a few years back that I'm not bored enough to look for.
It’s ok I’ll take you at your word.
Lord willing, us pulling out a W on the road gets the few more needed posters to step up and break the “disagreement” X record books :roflmao:
 

rmontro

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Not surprised that a post suggesting Rodgers be benched in favor of Hundley racked up a lot of disagrees.
But I didn't know Tony Romo was so popular that he would hold the record on a Packer forum. I mean I think Romo does a great job as a broadcaster, but wow.
Yeah Strange thread. I also Kinda like Romo’s performance perspective. Coming from a modern QB and all.
I’m nominating you for a research medal.
Nicely done Detective Firethorn :tup:
 

Pokerbrat2000

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I’m nominating you for a research medal.
Nicely done Detective Firethorn :tup:

He might have been permanently removed, but I bet if you did a search for "Brandon" you might find some real earth shattering posts with negative ratings. :coffee:

I wonder how he is doing down there in Washington with his 3-12 team. :laugh:

I'm sure if the Wash. Organization listens to him, he will have that team turned around in no time, much like he did for the Packers. :coffee:
 

Favre>Rodgers259

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Where was I for these threads? I should chime in.....

He might have been permanently removed, but I bet if you did a search for "Brandon" you might find some real earth shattering posts with negative ratings. :coffee:

I wonder how he is doing down there in Washington with his 3-12 team. :laugh:

I'm sure if the Wash. Organization listens to him, he will have that team turned around in no time, much like he did for the Packers. :coffee:

We need to bring him back, somebody apologize already.
 

tynimiller

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He might have been permanently removed, but I bet if you did a search for "Brandon" you might find some real earth shattering posts with negative ratings. :coffee:

I wonder how he is doing down there in Washington with his 3-12 team. :laugh:

I'm sure if the Wash. Organization listens to him, he will have that team turned around in no time, much like he did for the Packers. :coffee:


I bet Brandon cracked 30 multiple times.
 
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