Transfer portal and NIL Money, how they have changed college sports".

[Pokerbrat2000]

This was inevitable. Who makes the decisions on which teams get to attend, because no school would say no? And considering the audience this would probably drive, $1 mil seems like chump change.

Below is a much better article on "The Players Era Festival". Sounds like maybe only 8 teams during this its inaugural season. TV coverage will be a pay to stream event. I saw that and said:

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2024 Las Vegas NIL Tourney - Players Era Festival

2024 Las Vegas NIL Tourney - Players Era Festival

247sports.com

 

[Voyageur]

This was inevitable. Who makes the decisions on which teams get to attend, because no school would say no? And considering the audience this would probably drive, $1 mil seems like chump change.

Additional practice time. A chance to develop more.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Below is a much better article on "The Players Era Festival". Sounds like maybe only 8 teams during this its inaugural season. TV coverage will be a pay to stream event. I saw that and said:

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

2024 Las Vegas NIL Tourney - Players Era Festival

2024 Las Vegas NIL Tourney - Players Era Festival

247sports.com

Good article, thanks. It says pay-for-play is still against NCAA rules. Yeah, right.

There is bound to be a shift of talent to the schools that participate in this event. Well at least I think so (follow the money). If it's the same 8 schools, or 16 schools, or whatever - the eventual NCAA champion will come from one of these teams.

And that leaves open how other schools like Marquette compete for talent. Maybe I'm reading too much into this. It just seems, wrong. It certainly doesn't support parity.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Good article, thanks. It says pay-for-play is still against NCAA rules. Yeah, right.

I think the NIL waters are so damn muddy and murky, that the NCAA is probably saying "Oh hell, we can't enforce them, nor maybe should we, so let's just open the floodgates."

Will Bowl games start enticing teams by offering up big pots of NIL money to the teams that play and the team that wins gets even more?

It's a Wild Wild West out there and yes, the players are benefiting by it. However, I think the average fan of all the average programs aren't benefiting and eventually will say "F it, tired of all new starters/players every season, I'm out."

Just imagine the NFL without player contracts or caps. That is what is happening in College Sports with the TP and NIL. Players are free agents and can play for the highest bidder.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think the NIL waters are so damn muddy and murky, that the NCAA is probably saying "Oh hell, we can't enforce them, nor maybe should we, so let's just open the floodgates."

Will Bowl games start enticing teams by offering up big pots of NIL money to the teams that play and the team that wins gets even more?

It's a Wild Wild West out there and yes, the players are benefiting by it. However, I think the average fan of all the average programs aren't benefiting and eventually will say "F it, tired of all new starters/players every season, I'm out."

Just imagine the NFL without player contracts or caps. That is what is happening in College Sports with the TP and NIL. Players are free agents and can play for the highest bidder.

Well, maybe that's a way to get guys actually play in bowl games. With the best guys sitting out and waiting for their payday in the NFL, the bowl games have become even more meaningless. And there has to be money there, with every bowl renamed for a corporate sponsor.

It's a mess and it will get worse.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Well, maybe that's a way to get guys actually play in bowl games. With the best guys sitting out and waiting for their payday in the NFL, the bowl games have become even more meaningless. And there has to be money there, with every bowl renamed for a corporate sponsor.

It's a mess and it will get worse.

It would have to be a pretty big pay day for some of these guys to risk getting injured in a bowl game and then dropping like a brick come draft day.

The money in sports has become so big, that the motivation for playing the games has become tied directly to it. I get kind of get it; loyalty, dedication, pride, etc. don't buy groceries, cars, lavish trips or houses.

 

[Heyjoe4]

It would have to be a pretty big pay day for some of these guys to risk getting injured in a bowl game and then dropping like a brick come draft day.

The money in sports has become so big, that the motivation for playing the games has become tied directly to it. I get kind of get it; loyalty, dedication, pride, etc. don't buy groceries, cars, lavish trips or houses.

Yeah the expected first round guys aren't going to be playing bowl games. Maybe round 2. I dunno really.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Yeah the expected first round guys aren't going to be playing bowl games. Maybe round 2. I dunno really.

Some guys (Caleb Williams, Marvin Harrison Jr., etc) are passing on the Combine as well as a guy like Harrison also passed on his Pro Day. After listening to Marvin Harris Sr. explain it, makes sense. Money has gotten so big in the NFL that an injury could cost a draft pick millions over the course of their 1st contract.

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[Heyjoe4]

Some guys (Caleb Williams, Marvin Harrison Jr., etc) are passing on the Combine as well as a guy like Harrison also passed on his Pro Day. After listening to Marvin Harris Sr. explain it, makes sense. Money has gotten so big in the NFL that an injury could cost a draft pick millions over the course of their 1st contract.

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This explains why these elite guys pass on the Combine and don't do Pro Days. They're already locked in as top draft choices. Whatever they do at these events seems unlikely to materially change their draft status.

I'm sure an injury is unlikely, but it only takes one. And we've seen ACLs torn in non-contact situations enough times to know better. Interesting, and logical.

There is no clear line though to tell a "non-elite" player or his agent whether these events can help him, and by how much? And really, college game tape is a better indicator to me of how a guy plays the game. Unless there is some research correlating a player's career success with a "good' performance at the Combine or Pro Day, why take the chance?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

And really, college game tape is a better indicator to me of how a guy plays the game. Unless there is some research correlating a player's career success with a "good' performance at the Combine or Pro Day, why take the chance?

I've always felt that way, College game tape is better than no-pads testing. Now I am sure that there are some valuable things that the interviews and testing does, but nothing beats game tape IMO.

@tynimiller would probably be the guy to ask about the combine, RAS and all that info., he seems to have a very good handle on it.

One thing that has surprised me and maybe tyni can shed light on that too, are the guys who were out in the weeds after their final season and then suddenly are jumping rounds, because of outstanding combine/pro day numbers. Do those guys usually live up to their new expectations in the NFL?

 

[Heyjoe4]

I've always felt that way, College game tape is better than no-pads testing. Now I am sure that there are some valuable things that the interviews and testing does, but nothing beats game tape IMO.

@tynimiller would probably be the guy to ask about the combine, RAS and all that info., he seems to have a very good handle on it.

One thing that has surprised me and maybe tyni can shed light on that too, are the guys who were out in the weeds after their final season and then suddenly are jumping rounds, because of outstanding combine/pro day numbers. Do those guys usually live up to their new expectations in the NFL?

I certainly see the value in the interview process. Regardless of athletic ability, this subjective "test" is maybe the most important. How well will a player fit with the philosophy the HC is trying to instill/maintain? Some guys aren't worth the grief. On the flip side, some guys show useful skills (leadership, discipline) during an interview that may not jump out from game film alone.

And I imagine it's hard for these very talented guys not to get a bit full of themselves. Interviewing is far from a perfect process, but absolutely necessary. And it doesn't cause injuries (I think......)!

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm kind of surprised that Michigan is only the 18th School to create and hire for the position of "NIL GM". Any school that hasn't done this yet is behind the times. Who the heck has been handling it for those schools?

MSN

 

[Voyageur]

I've always felt that way, College game tape is better than no-pads testing. Now I am sure that there are some valuable things that the interviews and testing does, but nothing beats game tape IMO.

@tynimiller would probably be the guy to ask about the combine, RAS and all that info., he seems to have a very good handle on it.

One thing that has surprised me and maybe tyni can shed light on that too, are the guys who were out in the weeds after their final season and then suddenly are jumping rounds, because of outstanding combine/pro day numbers. Do those guys usually live up to their new expectations in the NFL?

What NFL teams should be asking is that players be tested with gear on, to insure that what they're seeing is a guy who can play with pads. It's amazing at how much the playing field levels out with a lot of players when they need to tote that weight. I've watched offensive linemen out run linebackers, and TEs often with gear on, because they have the muscle to carry the load.

I do like the interviews though. I think it tells a lot about the person they're considering in the draft. I believe it, along with the background checks tell a lot more about the guy than just his physical skills, which mean nothing, if they don't have what goes with it, to take advantage of what they have.

 

[Jontycaster]

For decades I was a fan of a major college football power. I even have a master's degree from the university. I lived and breathed my team, not just in autumn, but 365 days per year. I was a much bigger fan of college football than the NFL. NIL, the virtually unrestricted transfer portal, massive conference realignment that is killing traditional rivalries, and the playoff system that waters down the importance of regular season games has sucked out my love for the game.

Before this past season, I began telling people that 2023 would be my last year to follow college sports. There are many people on my old college football team fan forum who wrote that either they were in the same position as I was, or that they were quickly losing interest and that they could see themselves checking out in a few years. Some people will think that I jumped off the ship because our legendary coach retired (if that gives you a clue about my college loyalty) but I made it known that I was out even before that happened. It just isn't the same college football I grew up loving. I have stopped following college athletics completely; I have no idea what is going on with my team now, or in college sports in general, and it has surprised me how little I have missed it. I will pour all my sports fan interest into the Packers.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

For decades I was a fan of a major college football power. I even have a master's degree from the university. I lived and breathed my team, not just in autumn, but 365 days per year. I was a much bigger fan of college football than the NFL. NIL, the virtually unrestricted transfer portal, massive conference realignment that is killing traditional rivalries, and the playoff system that waters down the importance of regular season games has sucked out my love for the game.

Before this past season, I began telling people that 2023 would be my last year to follow college sports. There are many people on my old college football team fan forum who wrote that either they were in the same position as I was, or that they were quickly losing interest and that they could see themselves checking out in a few years. Some people will think that I jumped off the ship because our legendary coach retired (if that gives you a clue about my college loyalty) but I made it known that I was out even before that happened. It just isn't the same college football I grew up loving. I have stopped following college athletics completely; I have no idea what is going on with my team now, or in college sports in general, and it has surprised me how little I have missed it. I will pour all my sports fan interest into the Packers.

Money and greed took over the NFL years ago. While it has always existed at the College level, it is just now hitting at full force, for all to see and in larger amounts of money. Gone are the days where certain colleges and programs were secretly backed by big donors. Gone are the days when an athlete committed their services and loyalty to a University, because of everything that School had to offer, excluding money.

I have no issue with a student athlete getting some compensation for the use of their name and likeness, but those amounts need to be capped at a reasonable rate. Those amounts can't become incentives for a student athlete enrolling in or jumping ship to, a university. The transfer portal can't just be an open door without some obstacles. I preferred the old TP, where the athlete had to sit out a year, before being able to play. I would also prefer that programs get capped each year on the number of transfers they can take.

It is the Wild West in College Sports now. It is no longer a place where Amateur Athletes compete. Instead of making the NCAA better, the TP and NIL has sent its product tumbling downward, to a point where most of us are ready to throw in the towel.

 

[Jontycaster]

Money and greed took over the NFL years ago. While it has always existed at the College level, it is just now hitting at full force, for all to see and in larger amounts of money. Gone are the days where certain colleges and programs were secretly backed by big donors. Gone are the days when an athlete committed their services and loyalty to a University, because of everything that School had to offer, excluding money.

I have no issue with a student athlete getting some compensation for the use of their name and likeness, but those amounts need to be capped at a reasonable rate. Those amounts can't become incentives for a student athlete enrolling in or jumping ship to, a university. The transfer portal can't just be an open door without some obstacles. I preferred the old TP, where the athlete had to sit out a year, before being able to play. I would also prefer that programs get capped each year on the number of transfers they can take.

It is the Wild West in College Sports now. It is no longer a place where Amateur Athletes compete. Instead of making the NCAA better, the TP and NIL has sent its product tumbling downward, to a point where most of us are ready to throw in the towel.

100%. I actually am in favor of NIL in principle, it's the anything goes implementation that I object to.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

100%. I actually am in favor of NIL in principle, it's the anything goes implementation that I object to.

Yup. NIL was first intended to financially benefit a student athlete for being someone that through their performance in college athletics, became well known and others were indirectly making money off of them. Now, it is being used to entice no name (recognition) elite athletes to a program, to improve the program.

I am pretty sure if the average fan looked at a list of athletes that were getting NIL money, they wouldn't recognize more than a name or 2, if any.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Yup. NIL was first intended to financially benefit a student athlete for being someone that through their performance in college athletics, became well known and others were indirectly making money off of them. Now, it is being used to entice no name (recognition) elite athletes to a program, to improve the program.

I am pretty sure if the average fan looked at a list of athletes that were getting NIL money, they wouldn't recognize more than a name or 2, if any.

Your last point, I never thought that would describe NIL - money going to a player without a name, image, or likeness worth anything. But that's happening. That NCAABB tournament where schools get $1 mil to participate, and then distribute the cash to everyone, is what I'm referring to.

I'm no philosopher but can tell right from wrong and this is just wrong. The concept seems innocent enough, but it will warp college sports into 20 or 30 teams in football and BB who can get invitations to these "tournaments". It will work because people will watch.

I don't care much for college football, so personally that's not a big deal - although I know it is for some. I always follow March Madness, and the upsets and general craziness of the tournament will get warped. It's all a shame, regardless of which sport you like.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think I said it in another post, but NIL reminds me a lot of what happened in the Olympics. The Summer and Winter Olympics once proudly hosted amateur athletes from around the world, to compete for their Country, under the brightest lights, on the biggest stage.

Now, the Olympics are just another event for many of these athletes, a way to make more money, get more exposure and possibly even reinvent themselves in the media. Gone are the Miracles On Ice or the Eddie the Eagle stories. The amateur innocence of the Olympics have been replaced with over the top ceremonies to open and close, Olympic host cities becoming ghost towns and bankrupt, all just to put on a professional show.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think I said it in another post, but NIL reminds me a lot of what happened in the Olympics. The Summer and Winter Olympics once proudly hosted amateur athletes from around the world, to compete for their Country, under the brightest lights, on the biggest stage.

Now, the Olympics are just another event for many of these athletes, a way to make more money, get more exposure and possibly even reinvent themselves in the media. Gone are the Miracles On Ice or the Eddie the Eagle stories. The amateur innocence of the Olympics have been replaced with over the top ceremonies to open and close, Olympic host cities becoming ghost towns and bankrupt, all just to put on a professional show.

That's true as far as the USA now sending pros to some of the events. But for quite a while, other countries sent their paid athletes, esp in hockey and BB, while the USA sent only true, unpaid amateurs. The USA BB team has been made up of NBA players for a long, long time.

Anyway, I too wish the Olympics was a true amateur competition - meaning none of the athletes are paid prior to the games for their sport. Although that's what made the Miracle on Ice so special. The Russians were paid pros. The USA team was made up of college guys.

Unfortunately, the Olympics and now NCAA sports involve paid athletes - obviously and not so obviously. No going back.

And I don't get the economics behind building these elaborate new facilities only to have them go abandoned. That may work is some places, certainly not all. Finally, I can't stand the opening and closing ceremonies. They are a sham now.

 

[Voyageur]

To be honest, I'm glad that everything in college sports is now above board. For too long, backroom deals, jobs, and incentives to parents was what fueled kids becoming members of a lot of college teams.

I'm speaking of this with first hand knowledge, because my daughter worked in a school, where a young man who was a super football player was being recruited. Two major schools were the chief bidders. The one that won was the one that gave the kid's dad a super job, and somehow managed to arrange that they could buy a home close to the school he was to attend.

Now, that might sound remote, but it isn't. This was happening, in various ways, throughout college sports. When you saw a 19 year old boy driving a $50,000 muscle car, and he came from an environment where there was no money for anything other than the basics, you know darned well there's something going on. Now, it's all in the open, which is good.

As for the Olympics, it was great telling the world our athletes were amateurs. Meanwhile, countries like Russia, and East Germany were doping, paying wages to athletes by putting them in the military, and generally supporting the whole system which was supposed to be amateurs. Meanwhile, here in the US, a bunch of Wisconsin kids and Illinois, decided they could win the Olympic speed skating competition, and set sail on a rink outside of Milwaukee to make it happen. It did, and they were so successful at it that the idiots at the US level decided they should all go to the their facility in upstate NY, if they wanted to be part of the team. Since then, it's been a failure, and we even had problems getting money together to make it happen. Had it not been for some creative help through the media, we might not have even been able to go to Calgary to compete.

I'm glad they can get sponsors, and make money. It's only fair. I feel the same about college players. It is what it is, and quite honestly, the time will come that the field will tend to level itself out, through rules they'll establish, without NCAA guidance, which is a joke.

 

[Heyjoe4]

To be honest, I'm glad that everything in college sports is now above board. For too long, backroom deals, jobs, and incentives to parents was what fueled kids becoming members of a lot of college teams.

I'm speaking of this with first hand knowledge, because my daughter worked in a school, where a young man who was a super football player was being recruited. Two major schools were the chief bidders. The one that won was the one that gave the kid's dad a super job, and somehow managed to arrange that they could buy a home close to the school he was to attend.

Now, that might sound remote, but it isn't. This was happening, in various ways, throughout college sports. When you saw a 19 year old boy driving a $50,000 muscle car, and he came from an environment where there was no money for anything other than the basics, you know darned well there's something going on. Now, it's all in the open, which is good.

As for the Olympics, it was great telling the world our athletes were amateurs. Meanwhile, countries like Russia, and East Germany were doping, paying wages to athletes by putting them in the military, and generally supporting the whole system which was supposed to be amateurs. Meanwhile, here in the US, a bunch of Wisconsin kids and Illinois, decided they could win the Olympic speed skating competition, and set sail on a rink outside of Milwaukee to make it happen. It did, and they were so successful at it that the idiots at the US level decided they should all go to the their facility in upstate NY, if they wanted to be part of the team. Since then, it's been a failure, and we even had problems getting money together to make it happen. Had it not been for some creative help through the media, we might not have even been able to go to Calgary to compete.

I'm glad they can get sponsors, and make money. It's only fair. I feel the same about college players. It is what it is, and quite honestly, the time will come that the field will tend to level itself out, through rules they'll establish, without NCAA guidance, which is a joke.

That's a good point - there have never been true amateur athletics in US sports, not really. I mean it's as old as grift and bribery. So now that we all know the story behind these teams, it takes away the mystery of who is getting paid and who isn't. But back to Poker's point, I wish it could be an amateur competition. Just never gonna happen.

I didn't know the US speed skating team was no longer using the Pettit Center. Is that still true? I'm not a big winter sports fans, but I ran on the track there off and on in winter. Sure looks like one hell of a facility for speedskating to my untrained eye.

Finally, agree the NCAA should not be writing the NIL rules. Not sure that's gonna change though. Then again, who knows? Where big money is involved, things happen.

 

[Voyageur]

That's a good point - there have never been true amateur athletics in US sports, not really. I mean it's as old as grift and bribery. So now that we all know the story behind these teams, it takes away the mystery of who is getting paid and who isn't. But back to Poker's point, I wish it could be an amateur competition. Just never gonna happen.

I didn't know the US speed skating team was no longer using the Pettit Center. Is that still true? I'm not a big winter sports fans, but I ran on the track there off and on in winter. Sure looks like one hell of a facility for speedskating to my untrained eye.

Finally, agree the NCAA should not be writing the NIL rules. Not sure that's gonna change though. Then again, who knows? Where big money is involved, things happen.

I think you're right. The Pettit Center is a key element in the program now. Lake Placid is less important. What we actually need is several facilities around the US offering the same competition and training facilities. If we had them, we could return to being one of the dominant competitors. The proliferation of skating rinks in general has made it possible where we now have skaters representing us in categories from all over the US, not in just select areas, where rinks were available.

I remember how the Heiden's and other Wisconsin and Illinois skaters would make the trek to West Allis, to train almost every day, driving hundreds of miles, and still attend school. There was a pride we had in those skating teams, because we knew they were essentially all amateurs, and beating the pros from around the world.

In 1980, during the height of the Cold War, when the US Hockey team took to the ice, and beat the Russians, to move into the gold medal game, I cried. I'd served, protected my country, and saw friends give their lives to protect it. Those kids, from all over the US, had beaten the best professional hockey team in the world, and our kids were all amateurs. It made me feel the same pride, as when I wore the uniform of our country.

I agree that the NCAA should have nothing to do with any NIL rules. They botch everything they do. Even their playoff for the title is a joke. Why 12 teams? Their comment is that there will be less games with 12 than 16 teams. Really? For 8 of the 12 teams, the same number will be played as 16 teams competing. "Not enough venues" that would work for doing 16 teams. Really? The first round games are being hosted by 4 teams with this format. How would 8 teams hosting it hurt? It's an extra home game for the top 8 teams in the nation, as chosen. I think that's a real good deal for the schools, and the media money.

"It will interfere with bowl games." Seriously? They're already using several bowl games as part of the playoffs. Nothing would change with 16 teams. You'd still use the 4 bowl games as part of the format.

Their arguments are ridiculous.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I think you're right. The Pettit Center is a key element in the program now. Lake Placid is less important. What we actually need is several facilities around the US offering the same competition and training facilities. If we had them, we could return to being one of the dominant competitors. The proliferation of skating rinks in general has made it possible where we now have skaters representing us in categories from all over the US, not in just select areas, where rinks were available.

I remember how the Heiden's and other Wisconsin and Illinois skaters would make the trek to West Allis, to train almost every day, driving hundreds of miles, and still attend school. There was a pride we had in those skating teams, because we knew they were essentially all amateurs, and beating the pros from around the world.

In 1980, during the height of the Cold War, when the US Hockey team took to the ice, and beat the Russians, to move into the gold medal game, I cried. I'd served, protected my country, and saw friends give their lives to protect it. Those kids, from all over the US, had beaten the best professional hockey team in the world, and our kids were all amateurs. It made me feel the same pride, as when I wore the uniform of our country.

I agree that the NCAA should have nothing to do with any NIL rules. They botch everything they do. Even their playoff for the title is a joke. Why 12 teams? Their comment is that there will be less games with 12 than 16 teams. Really? For 8 of the 12 teams, the same number will be played as 16 teams competing. "Not enough venues" that would work for doing 16 teams. Really? The first round games are being hosted by 4 teams with this format. How would 8 teams hosting it hurt? It's an extra home game for the top 8 teams in the nation, as chosen. I think that's a real good deal for the schools, and the media money.

"It will interfere with bowl games." Seriously? They're already using several bowl games as part of the playoffs. Nothing would change with 16 teams. You'd still use the 4 bowl games as part of the format.

Their arguments are ridiculous.

A 16 game playoff makes a lot more sense than 12 games. I don't get that. And hell yeah it's a decent payday for the university, even if it's only the one game. A lot more eyeballs on a playoff game, a lot more advertising or pay-to-view opportunities. Yeah, the NCAA is not built for making money, try as they might.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Now, that might sound remote, but it isn't. This was happening, in various ways, throughout college sports. When you saw a 19 year old boy driving a $50,000 muscle car, and he came from an environment where there was no money for anything other than the basics, you know darned well there's something going on. Now, it's all in the open, which is good.

I do definitely agree with you that the under the table stuff was happening. However, there was always the fear of getting caught and having to keep it on the "smaller" dollar side to keep it quiet. I too have no issue with college athletes making money for their name and likeness. However, I am totally against NIL money going way beyond that, which is using it to entice H.S. recruits or Transfer portal athletes, that haven't even earned it.

Cap the NIL money at a reasonable amount, Limit its use to players that have been in the program for a year or more (earned the money) and put a cap on how many transfer portals each program can accept.

The current system isn't leveling the playing field, it's skewing the crap out of it.