Trading off the 1st round pick

[Deleted member 6794]

I would expect Kendricks to be at least decent in all aspects of the game. I have more concern with his man coverage ability that needs some work than with his run play ability. He looks good dropping in zone.

Mostly agree with your post but I don't have concerns about Kendricks being able to cover man-to-man in space.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Mostly agree with your post but I don't have concerns about Kendricks being able to cover man-to-man in space.

Well, he certainly has the speed for it at 4.59.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

We have a roster that is overflowing with talent. At some point, quantity over quality has to be reevaluated. Building a team like we did for nearly a decade, quantity is a must, with low percentage odds of finding keepers. But now we need to concentrate on roster managment, by replacing the couple aging free agents every year, and add one or two difference maker type picks. rather than draft 10 to find 5 keepers, only to have to release good players to make room...

Maybe instead of trading back, like we have done fairly often in Thompsons tenure. Maybe we trade the farm on a destructive future NT in Danny Shelton? With both Raji and Guion on short deals, it could be a great move for next year?

Ihave never waivered on the theory that 1000 pounds of D-linemen crammed into 3 roster spots. 3 guys who demand the double team. Thats what a 3-4 needs. Pocket pushers. Shelton, Raji, Daniels is a fine example of what I want. Big strong and suprisingly fast and agile guys up front. Let the 8 guys behind them sting like a bee.

When we had no D-line besides Raji who was triple teamed. We had good LBs and secondary. Opposite of what I wanted. So drafting a LB and CB doesnt fix anything, if we arent better than average up front. If we have a dominant front 3 with dominant rotation including an angry Guion. We can do well with the LBs and CBs we have now. All in my opinion.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Kendricks......... I admit Im not a good evaluator of LBs. But Kendricks seems smallish compared to what I pictured... I see a intimidating ILB to seal up our gut. 237 or what ever Kendricks was listed at. I would see the smallest LB who happened to be a rookie, as a attack point.

Im still thinking we have another OLB on the roster who could transition to ILB... Perry is the name that comes to mind. Visually speaking. A 260 pounder that looks 270, and runs like he's 245. And to add to the argument. Perry's production as a OLB pass rusher wouldnt be hard to match with one of our good depth guys. SOmeone knowledgable said Perry would suck as a ILB (cant cover). I couldnt tell you. Maybe Elliot, Maybe Hubbard and his 6'6" frame, and wingspan to match. We seen what Peppers and his long arms can do. How many balls did he knock down last year!?!? intercepting some, and basicly bringing a big play potential to the defense. Hubbard could bring some of that.

I liked both Bradford and Barrington last year too. With Mathews makes 3 imo. I could be way wrong on this too...

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I would really like to be able to take a look at PFF's stats, especially where the other possible early round picks are ranked and how many ILBs they ranked. According to NFL Draft Scout there are 134 draft eligible ILBs.

Agreed, but we're talking about a first round draft pick. A first rounder should be hands down better than the other guys at his position. Again, not saying he won't be good. Just that there's not a massive gap. PFF also has said that Eddie Goldman was pretty mediocre in most of his games last year, the majority of his positive grade according to them came in one game against Louisville, where he was up against a center that was rated as one of the worst players at his position in Division I. None of this is saying those players are inherently bad, just that they might not be quite as good as perceived; and I emphasize MIGHT, there could be myriad legit reasons that some of these guys don't rank that highly....maybe, like BJ Raji, Goldman was just playing out of position in every other game besides the Louisville game.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

We have a roster that is overflowing with talent. At some point, quantity over quality has to be reevaluated. Building a team like we did for nearly a decade, quantity is a must, with low percentage odds of finding keepers. But now we need to concentrate on roster managment, by replacing the couple aging free agents every year, and add one or two difference maker type picks. rather than draft 10 to find 5 keepers, only to have to release good players to make room...

Maybe instead of trading back, like we have done fairly often in Thompsons tenure. Maybe we trade the farm on a destructive future NT in Danny Shelton? With both Raji and Guion on short deals, it could be a great move for next year?

Ihave never waivered on the theory that 1000 pounds of D-linemen crammed into 3 roster spots. 3 guys who demand the double team. Thats what a 3-4 needs. Pocket pushers. Shelton, Raji, Daniels is a fine example of what I want. Big strong and suprisingly fast and agile guys up front. Let the 8 guys behind them sting like a bee.

When we had no D-line besides Raji who was triple teamed. We had good LBs and secondary. Opposite of what I wanted. So drafting a LB and CB doesnt fix anything, if we arent better than average up front. If we have a dominant front 3 with dominant rotation including an angry Guion. We can do well with the LBs and CBs we have now. All in my opinion.

The real need in the 3-4 is that you need to have linemen who demand a double team. Daniels isn't huge but he demands a double team. Raji is huge but gets routinely (by routinely I mean 90+%) pushed around by a single guard. Sheer size doesn't help because the olinemen are also really big. I don't mean to imply that you're saying Raji is the answer (maybe you are but that's not what this is about), I'm just trying to point out that a lot of the 3-4 is about the attitude of the players and that's tough to project sometimes. Raji has all the skills you could ever want in a 3-4 NT but he doesn't have the desire to do the dirty work of a 3-4 lineman. I'm one of the biggest advocates of taking a dlinemen in the first round (I think the team should take a dlinemen every year in the first round, outside of QB it's the position that sees the biggest drop-off between round 1 and 2) but I wonder at times if the guys taken in the first round don't sometimes feel like they should be doing more when put in a 3-4. Obviously that's not always the case but I wonder if Raji didn't expect to be rushing the passer and single-gapping all the time as a first round guy and then kind of lost interest when his main job was much more unheralded.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Agreed, but we're talking about a first round draft pick. A first rounder should be hands down better than the other guys at his position. Again, not saying he won't be good. Just that there's not a massive gap. PFF also has said that Eddie Goldman was pretty mediocre in most of his games last year, the majority of his positive grade according to them came in one game against Louisville, where he was up against a center that was rated as one of the worst players at his position in Division I. None of this is saying those players are inherently bad, just that they might not be quite as good as perceived; and I emphasize MIGHT, there could be myriad legit reasons that some of these guys don't rank that highly....maybe, like BJ Raji, Goldman was just playing out of position in every other game besides the Louisville game.

Let me put it this way, I would love to get Kendricks in the second round as I'm not completely convinced he's a first round talent. With the Packers picking at #62 there's no chance he will available and it's probable even Anthony will be gone. I don't think any other ILB truly fits the Packers need, so as long as none of the consensus top 10 picks drops for some reason I would be fine with Thompson reaching a little bit for Kendricks.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We have a roster that is overflowing with talent. At some point, quantity over quality has to be reevaluated. Building a team like we did for nearly a decade, quantity is a must, with low percentage odds of finding keepers. But now we need to concentrate on roster managment, by replacing the couple aging free agents every year, and add one or two difference maker type picks. rather than draft 10 to find 5 keepers, only to have to release good players to make room...

Maybe instead of trading back, like we have done fairly often in Thompsons tenure. Maybe we trade the farm on a destructive future NT in Danny Shelton? With both Raji and Guion on short deals, it could be a great move for next year?

Ihave never waivered on the theory that 1000 pounds of D-linemen crammed into 3 roster spots. 3 guys who demand the double team. Thats what a 3-4 needs. Pocket pushers. Shelton, Raji, Daniels is a fine example of what I want. Big strong and suprisingly fast and agile guys up front. Let the 8 guys behind them sting like a bee.

When we had no D-line besides Raji who was triple teamed. We had good LBs and secondary. Opposite of what I wanted. So drafting a LB and CB doesnt fix anything, if we arent better than average up front. If we have a dominant front 3 with dominant rotation including an angry Guion. We can do well with the LBs and CBs we have now. All in my opinion.

There's no guarantee that trading up results in the Packers receiving an impact player and Thompson would have to give up a lot to move up for Shelton.

Raji didn't command a double team over the last few years, let alone being blocked by three guys. The defensive line is an important part of the defense but the linebackers and secondary are equally vital to the unit's success.

I would like to add some depth to the DL but prefer to spend the first round pick on an ILB.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Kendricks......... I admit Im not a good evaluator of LBs. But Kendricks seems smallish compared to what I pictured... I see a intimidating ILB to seal up our gut. 237 or what ever Kendricks was listed at. I would see the smallest LB who happened to be a rookie, as a attack point.

Im still thinking we have another OLB on the roster who could transition to ILB... Perry is the name that comes to mind. Visually speaking. A 260 pounder that looks 270, and runs like he's 245. And to add to the argument. Perry's production as a OLB pass rusher wouldnt be hard to match with one of our good depth guys. SOmeone knowledgable said Perry would suck as a ILB (cant cover). I couldnt tell you. Maybe Elliot, Maybe Hubbard and his 6'6" frame, and wingspan to match. We seen what Peppers and his long arms can do. How many balls did he knock down last year!?!? intercepting some, and basicly bringing a big play potential to the defense. Hubbard could bring some of that.

I liked both Bradford and Barrington last year too. With Mathews makes 3 imo. I could be way wrong on this too...

I would really like fans to stop advocating for moving guys from OLB inside as the best solution. While Matthews improved the defense he's our best defensive player and a special athlete. There's no reason to believe all guys are capable of turning into an impact player after a move (just take Brad Jones and Lattimore as perfect examples for it to not work out). Let's get a guy who actually has played the position before.

Bradford didn't show anything during last season to justify putting any faith in him.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I would really like fans to stop advocating for moving guys from OLB inside as the best solution. While Matthews improved the defense he's our best defensive player and a special athlete. There's no reason to believe all guys are capable of turning into an impact player after a move (just take Brad Jones and Lattimore as perfect examples for it to not work out). Let's get a guy who actually has played the position before.

Bradford didn't show anything during last season to justify putting any faith in him.

You beat me to it.

I would add that Bradford didn't show anything because he's yet to take an NFL snap except against second stringers in preseason, and so far as I can tell he's never played ILB anywhere except the last preseason game.

It's always easy to project good things for a player when, from lack of opportunity, he has not had the chance to show any bad things. It's analysis by attrition when there's nothing to attrite.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

The real need in the 3-4 is that you need to have linemen who demand a double team. Daniels isn't huge but he demands a double team. Raji is huge but gets routinely (by routinely I mean 90+%) pushed around by a single guard. Sheer size doesn't help because the olinemen are also really big. I don't mean to imply that you're saying Raji is the answer (maybe you are but that's not what this is about), I'm just trying to point out that a lot of the 3-4 is about the attitude of the players and that's tough to project sometimes. Raji has all the skills you could ever want in a 3-4 NT but he doesn't have the desire to do the dirty work of a 3-4 lineman. I'm one of the biggest advocates of taking a dlinemen in the first round (I think the team should take a dlinemen every year in the first round, outside of QB it's the position that sees the biggest drop-off between round 1 and 2) but I wonder at times if the guys taken in the first round don't sometimes feel like they should be doing more when put in a 3-4. Obviously that's not always the case but I wonder if Raji didn't expect to be rushing the passer and single-gapping all the time as a first round guy and then kind of lost interest when his main job was much more unheralded.

exactly. raji was a young probowler. a physical freak. then every decent d-lineman around him was let go in some crazy (strategy?) eventually we had 1 and 2 down linemen, and he was negated. so yea! a motivated raji can be great imo. so motivate him!!!
get some good ends. let him play with mathews behind him, and peppers tearing up one side.... give him help, and let him have fun chasing QBs sometimes. next thing you know he will be blowing through the line again... i believe...

 

[Deleted member 6794]

exactly. raji was a young probowler. a physical freak. then every decent d-lineman around him was let go in some crazy (strategy?) eventually we had 1 and 2 down linemen, and he was negated. so yea! a motivated raji can be great imo. so motivate him!!!
get some good ends. let him play with mathews behind him, and peppers tearing up one side.... give him help, and let him have fun chasing QBs sometimes. next thing you know he will be blowing through the line again... i believe...

Raji is the only one to blame for his decline in production. His Pro Bowl nomination in 2011 was a complete joke.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

Raji is the only one to blame for his decline in production. His Pro Bowl nomination in 2011 was a complete joke.

disagree wimm. He was dominant at one point. and in one way of looking at it, he lost motivation and disapeared. tried to get out of GB imo, and his plan of holding pro-bowler status, while playing bad enough to get let go here, backfired! None of thats good! But whats equally to blame IMO, is taking , and basicly wasting a guy of his potential, by putting him on an island, and burying him. No fun at all. no stats to get paid for... He was justified in wanting out of GB. Our defense sucked, and made him look bad in alot of ways... Two sides to the coin...

Solution being, give him a defense that allows him to make some plays. And he will make them... He has been humbled, and I think he will do well from here on out. In GB or somewhere else. He will be play closer to his potential for a while here.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

disagree wimm. He was dominant at one point. and in one way of looking at it, he lost motivation and disapeared. tried to get out of GB imo, and his plan of holding pro-bowler status, while playing bad enough to get let go here, backfired! None of thats good! But whats equally to blame IMO, is taking , and basicly wasting a guy of his potential, by putting him on an island, and burying him. No fun at all. no stats to get paid for... He was justified in wanting out of GB. Our defense sucked, and made him look bad in alot of ways... Two sides to the coin...

Solution being, give him a defense that allows him to make some plays. And he will make them... He has been humbled, and I think he will do well from here on out. In GB or somewhere else. He will be play closer to his potential for a while here.

Raji was dominant rushing the passer in 2010 but his run defense wasn't great that year either. Since then he had two terrible seasons and missed another one.

I really have no reason to blame the Packers for him not being motivated. He was a major reason the Packers defense was really bad in 2011 and '13.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Raji is the only one to blame for his decline in production. His Pro Bowl nomination in 2011 was a complete joke.

It was clearly in recognition of his 2010 performance together with the absurd snap count that season. Sometimes a PFF run defense grade takes a back seat to the warrior ethos.