Three Positions Gute Has To Target EARLY in 2025 Draft

[tynimiller]

So with a quarter of the 2024 season having come and left....the earliest (still premature) directional growth or stagnation (or death...) are becoming visible.

First, let's not even use Corner as one of these three...everyone with half a football brain cell knows it - barring a massive change down the stretch by say a King coming in or Stokes waking up or Nixon doing something...my money is ******* CB in the first round of the 2025 draft.

Cornerback - I would argue that 2025 the need for cornerback will be as high as it arguably has been since maybe a decade ago. Unlike last year where we had a promising Valentine, a hopefully healthy and coming back Stokes, an energized Jaire and for some reason a team hopeful Nixon is good......2025 unless something big turns around we won't have Stokes as part of the discussion (he isn't playing good enough for more than a one year deal that is CHEAP), Nixon has time and time again been the weak link team's target and Jaire for another year cannot stay healthy. Yes, Jaire is really really good typically when he is healthy - worst case he is a clear starting CB anywhere (whether a teams' CB1 or CB2). But truthfully after that Valentine is the clear next best and everyone knows I love the kid but still we have to have more.

BUT here are three positions I think folks may not like to hear we need to target but we really should in the first two days of the 2025 draft...

Defensive Line...I understood why we passed on some guys I really liked in 2024 along the trenches...Wooden and Brooks both showed promise as rookies, Slaton played amazing in 2023 with more snaps and Wyatt was finally starting to come into his own....however resting on our laurels and expecting Kenny to continue to play at elite or just below level simply isn't happening. Slaton has not played up to a new contract offer IMO, especially because Brooks and Wooden in limited snaps appear to be ready for a more action (Brooks especially) and Wyatt is finally coming into his own. HOWEVER, also a big piece is folks Kenny Clarke is starting to slow....yes he is incredibly young still really chronologically but 2025 would be his tenth season folks, that body has seen a lot of NFL snaps. Getting a high level (first or second round type) guy that can be an absolute wrecking ball in the middle and force this team to ask if Clark is still the best there would instantly make this team better across ALL aspects of the defense. We have the pressure guys that seem special at that in Wyatt and Brooks along the inside...get me a high level run and pass type player like Clark has been for so long (until this year).
Some of my favorite early interior DL prospects - Mason Graham - Michigan, Tyleik Williams - Ohio State, TJ Sanders - South Carolina, Dontay Corleone - Cincy, Kenneth Grant - Michigan

Off Ball Linebacker...Most know this is also a need like CB but we also know positional value isn't there for here BUT we have McDuffie in a contract year...we have Eric Wilson in a contract year (yes logic says one or both may be cheap resigns) BUT this team needs to push the gas pedal and find the future pairing with Cooper who is the future. Quay has another year, 2025, to possibly play himself into a role for the future but this cannot be banked on as he simply has laid down three years that say good but not great off ball linebacker...that literally leaves us essentially with Cooper and guys we want around for depth. Now I think we should strive to get Evan Williams and Javon Bullard both in more with X - and one way to do this is play Evan more in that hybrid box/safety role he's done a lot in college, but we NEED a off ball linebacker and I'd love to see Gute do the ole' one early and one late plan of attack here like he's done on some positions before.
Some of my favorite off ball backers right now that may need a top 100 pick - Jamon Dumas-Johnson - Kentucky, Danny Stutsman - Oklahoma, Lander Barton - Utah, Harold Perkins - LSU (dude is an all over chess piece), Barrett Carter - Clemson

Tight End - Musgrave at most is only ever going to be a receiving option...when he is in every team knows its' a key or tendency that he is NOT going to be asked to be a lead blocker unless GB wants to fail. Sims is a TE3 at most. Getting another high level TE wouldn't just push this position forward, it also acts as a buffer to the influx that is bound to hit the WR room at some point in the coming years - stabilizing this position with a TE option now defends against WR issues possibly having a rippling effect.
Some of my favorite Tight Ends to compliment Kraft that for sure deserve a top 100 pick - Colston Loveland - Michigan, Oronde Gadsden - Syracuse (little bit of a Musgrave 2.0 type), Harold Fannin - Bowling Green, Mitchell Evans - Notre Dame.

 

[OldSchool101]

Also reminder that iLB Ty’Ron Hopper is in the shadows. On reason I bring that up is imo it pushes LB into a medium need. They did spend a 2nd and 3rd Rounders last March. My guess is we really think Hopper will be a Starter in 2025/2026. Also it’s a coin flip but you can still get a good Off Ball LB through Rd4-5 if necessary. The lack of emphasis leaguewide at LB has almost pushed that position down 1 draft Round.


The obvious ones are where the Roster needs depth by numbers default
WR, CB, OL, DL and we just drafted 3 OL in March

CB just from the argument that it seems like 1 of the 2 primary perimeter starters miss time. Plus Stokes is coming into a contract year and it often takes a year of repeat before being thrust into a Starting role. This could depend on what we see from Valentine and King IF or when they get more time.

DL.
Now I like our grouping, but I also wonder if an upgrade here in the D interior isn’t warranted. It just seems like we are underwhelming in the middle. If a Top 40-50 type was there then they in later RD2 I’d have to seriously give premium Beef precedent and trim the fat there.

WR

One thing to consider is the cost to resign Watson or Doubs. Both will sneak into contract years and priming the position by grooming another WR for a season might not be a bad decision. More from a staggered approach to keep them in the pipeline. We also are having some minor conflict here and also injuries are an ongoing concern. So if we keep 6 and PS another. We’d be looking at
Reed, Wicks, 1 of 2 between Doubs/Watson.
Then we’d need 3 more, so 1 of Melton or Heath. Plus throw another Top 90 type WR selection into the fray and I’d feel pretty comfortable. Just too many injuries and other issues at WR to not pipeline a Top 100 draft selection for 2 straight drafts.

 

[OldSchool101]

I will also offer that Malik Willis might morph into a nice draft pick. Even a chance at a half year rental and he likely draws a 4th Rounder or an earlier package of a pair of later Day 3 selections. 5th/6th etc.
That’s potentially recouping our lost selection for his trade (similar to upgrading our 7th in a pick swap) PLUS getting us a pretty good stab at a bonus LB in that top 150 area.
Having Quay/Cooper/Hopper plus choice of McDuffie or Wilson and a good Draft pick such as that bonus 4th Rounder or 4th Comp in trade.

 

[tynimiller]

Also reminder that iLB Ty’Ron Hopper is in the shadows. On reason I bring that up is imo it pushes LB into a medium need. They did spend a 2nd and 3rd Rounders last March. My guess is we really think Hopper will be a Starter in 2025/2026. Also it’s a coin flip but you can still get a good Off Ball LB through Rd4-5 if necessary. The lack of emphasis leaguewide at LB has almost pushed that position down 1 draft Round.


The obvious ones are where the Roster needs depth by numbers default
WR, CB, OL, DL and we just drafted 3 OL in March

CB just from the argument that it seems like 1 of the 2 primary perimeter starters miss time. Plus Stokes is coming into a contract year and it often takes a year of repeat before being thrust into a Starting role. This could depend on what we see from Valentine and King IF or when they get more time.

DL.
Now I like our grouping, but I also wonder if an upgrade here in the D interior isn’t warranted. It just seems like we are underwhelming in the middle. If a Top 40-50 type was there then they in later RD2 I’d have to seriously give premium Beef precedent and trim the fat there.

WR

One thing to consider is the cost to resign Watson or Doubs. Both will sneak into contract years and priming the position by grooming another WR for a season might not be a bad decision. More from a staggered approach to keep them in the pipeline. We also are having some minor conflict here and also injuries are an ongoing concern. So if we keep 6 and PS another. We’d be looking at
Reed, Wicks, 1 of 2 between Doubs/Watson.
Then we’d need 3 more, so 1 of Melton or Heath. Plus throw another Top 90 type WR selection into the fray and I’d feel pretty comfortable. Just too many injuries and other issues at WR to not pipeline a Top 100 draft selection for 2 straight drafts.

I had him on the list and spaced it. Completely agree on T Hop was omitted.

 

[tynimiller]

I will also offer that Malik Willis might morph into a nice draft pick. Even a chance at a half year rental and he likely draws a 4th Rounder or an earlier package of a pair of later Day 3 selections. 5th/6th etc.
That’s potentially recouping our lost selection for his trade (similar to upgrading our 7th in a pick swap) PLUS getting us a pretty good stab at a bonus LB in that top 150 area.
Having Quay/Cooper/Hopper plus choice of McDuffie or Wilson and a good Draft pick such as that bonus 4th Rounder or 4th Comp in trade.

They aren't trading him this year and a trade in next season would net a pick in the 2026 draft - I don't disagree but talking 2025.

Your WR thought is interesting and I honestly expect we pick a Day 3 type guy, none of our WRs are gone after this season - Bo is the only one they have to do anything on but he's still a ERFA. Would be a waste of capital to pick a top 100 as posed unless of course someone falls.

 

[OldSchool101]

They aren't trading him this year and a trade in next season would net a pick in the 2026 draft - I don't disagree but talking 2025.

Your WR thought is interesting and I honestly expect we pick a Day 3 type guy, none of our WRs are gone after this season - Bo is the only one they have to do anything on but he's still a ERFA. Would be a waste of capital to pick a top 100 as posed unless of course someone falls.

That’s true in the trade scenario. I guess I’d still consider a LB, just not with a 1st or 2nd unless he’s just a total stud that slips some. I’m not putting blinders on, just in an ideal scenario I’d go RD3-RD5 at ILB. As of now, if you told me I could add 1 Top 25 and 1 Top 57 selection? I’m going CB and DL or maybe as a backup if those are gone grab 1 more really good OL.

Totally agree at CB.
don’t want Nixon playing for J’aire ever again. He’s ok for the Slot as part of a good CB/DB room but past that we’re a little light in depth options. At least until we see what King or Valentine look with better samples.

Totally agree at DL.
I know TJ has played good for a later Day 3 selection. But on many NFL Rosters he’s not a Bonafide Starter. Slaton is what I’d call a moderate to lower end Starter and that is not an insult. TJ would be better suited to play that rotational piece and he’s good enough to be a temporary fix or patch if someone goes down. Plus like you said we skipped both WR and DT in 2024 but I don’t suggest doing that in consecutive drafts. Plus hard to believe Watson will be going into his final contract season. Might want to look for his successor and get Jordan a Really good WR in RD2-3 to prime for the 2025 season

 

[shockerx]

Also reminder that iLB Ty’Ron Hopper is in the shadows. On reason I bring that up is imo it pushes LB into a medium need. They did spend a 2nd and 3rd Rounders last March. My guess is we really think Hopper will be a Starter in 2025/2026. Also it’s a coin flip but you can still get a good Off Ball LB through Rd4-5 if necessary. The lack of emphasis leaguewide at LB has almost pushed that position down 1 draft Round.


The obvious ones are where the Roster needs depth by numbers default
WR, CB, OL, DL and we just drafted 3 OL in March

CB just from the argument that it seems like 1 of the 2 primary perimeter starters miss time. Plus Stokes is coming into a contract year and it often takes a year of repeat before being thrust into a Starting role. This could depend on what we see from Valentine and King IF or when they get more time.

DL.
Now I like our grouping, but I also wonder if an upgrade here in the D interior isn’t warranted. It just seems like we are underwhelming in the middle. If a Top 40-50 type was there then they in later RD2 I’d have to seriously give premium Beef precedent and trim the fat there.

WR

One thing to consider is the cost to resign Watson or Doubs. Both will sneak into contract years and priming the position by grooming another WR for a season might not be a bad decision. More from a staggered approach to keep them in the pipeline. We also are having some minor conflict here and also injuries are an ongoing concern. So if we keep 6 and PS another. We’d be looking at
Reed, Wicks, 1 of 2 between Doubs/Watson.
Then we’d need 3 more, so 1 of Melton or Heath. Plus throw another Top 90 type WR selection into the fray and I’d feel pretty comfortable. Just too many injuries and other issues at WR to not pipeline a Top 100 draft selection for 2 straight drafts.

Nice Tyni....any thoughts on Jay Higgins number 34 from Iowa..looks like a real football player. I know its early but would he fit in our defense? is he a day 2 guy?

 

[tynimiller]

Nice Tyni....any thoughts on Jay Higgins number 34 from Iowa..looks like a real football player. I know its early but would he fit in our defense? is he a day 2 guy?

ATM I have a 5th round grade on him. Personally I don't see a high level athletic profile, what I do see is a high IQ football player who his only shortcoming is purely physicial abilities and nothing more. That doesn't mean he couldn't work his way to being lower snap starter who likely is taken out for passing down or sub packages....

 

[shockerx]

thanks Tyni....sounds like he's McDuffie. Ive heard some talk about him..so good info as always.






thanks

 

[tynimiller]

thanks Tyni....sounds like he's McDuffie. Ive heard some talk about him..so good info as always.






thanks

I personally would say his ceiling I see is a guy step up from McDuffie

 

[PikeBadger]

So with a quarter of the 2024 season having come and left....the earliest (still premature) directional growth or stagnation (or death...) are becoming visible.

First, let's not even use Corner as one of these three...everyone with half a football brain cell knows it - barring a massive change down the stretch by say a King coming in or Stokes waking up or Nixon doing something...my money is ******* CB in the first round of the 2025 draft.

Cornerback - I would argue that 2025 the need for cornerback will be as high as it arguably has been since maybe a decade ago. Unlike last year where we had a promising Valentine, a hopefully healthy and coming back Stokes, an energized Jaire and for some reason a team hopeful Nixon is good......2025 unless something big turns around we won't have Stokes as part of the discussion (he isn't playing good enough for more than a one year deal that is CHEAP), Nixon has time and time again been the weak link team's target and Jaire for another year cannot stay healthy. Yes, Jaire is really really good typically when he is healthy - worst case he is a clear starting CB anywhere (whether a teams' CB1 or CB2). But truthfully after that Valentine is the clear next best and everyone knows I love the kid but still we have to have more.

BUT here are three positions I think folks may not like to hear we need to target but we really should in the first two days of the 2025 draft...

Defensive Line...I understood why we passed on some guys I really liked in 2024 along the trenches...Wooden and Brooks both showed promise as rookies, Slaton played amazing in 2023 with more snaps and Wyatt was finally starting to come into his own....however resting on our laurels and expecting Kenny to continue to play at elite or just below level simply isn't happening. Slaton has not played up to a new contract offer IMO, especially because Brooks and Wooden in limited snaps appear to be ready for a more action (Brooks especially) and Wyatt is finally coming into his own. HOWEVER, also a big piece is folks Kenny Clarke is starting to slow....yes he is incredibly young still really chronologically but 2025 would be his tenth season folks, that body has seen a lot of NFL snaps. Getting a high level (first or second round type) guy that can be an absolute wrecking ball in the middle and force this team to ask if Clark is still the best there would instantly make this team better across ALL aspects of the defense. We have the pressure guys that seem special at that in Wyatt and Brooks along the inside...get me a high level run and pass type player like Clark has been for so long (until this year).
Some of my favorite early interior DL prospects - Mason Graham - Michigan, Tyleik Williams - Ohio State, TJ Sanders - South Carolina, Dontay Corleone - Cincy, Kenneth Grant - Michiga
Off Ball Linebacker...Most know this is also a need like CB but we also know positional value isn't there for here BUT we have McDuffie in a contract year...we have Eric Wilson in a contract year (yes logic says one or both may be cheap resigns) BUT this team needs to push the gas pedal and find the future pairing with Cooper who is the future. Quay has another year, 2025, to possibly play himself into a role for the future but this cannot be banked on as he simply has laid down three years that say good but not great off ball linebacker...that literally leaves us essentially with Cooper and guys we want around for depth. Now I think we should strive to get Evan Williams and Javon Bullard both in more with X - and one way to do this is play Evan more in that hybrid box/safety role he's done a lot in college, but we NEED a off ball linebacker and I'd love to see Gute do the ole' one early and one late plan of attack here like he's done on some positions before.
Some of my favorite off ball backers right now that may need a top 100 pick - Jamon Dumas-Johnson - Kentucky, Danny Stutsman - Oklahoma, Lander Barton - Utah, Harold Perkins - LSU (dude is an all over chess piece), Barrett Carter - Clemson

Tight End - Musgrave at most is only ever going to be a receiving option...when he is in every team knows its' a key or tendency that he is NOT going to be asked to be a lead blocker unless GB wants to fail. Sims is a TE3 at most. Getting another high level TE wouldn't just push this position forward, it also acts as a buffer to the influx that is bound to hit the WR room at some point in the coming years - stabilizing this position with a TE option now defends against WR issues possibly having a rippling effect.
Some of my favorite Tight Ends to compliment Kraft that for sure deserve a top 100 pick - Colston Loveland - Michigan, Oronde Gadsden - Syracuse (little bit of a Musgrave 2.0 type), Harold Fannin - Bowling Green, Mitchell Evans - Notre Dame.

I'm hoping that we can get a good interior defensive lineman in the first round this year. This is the year to do it from what I've heard about the quality of prospects.

 

[tynimiller]

I'm hoping that we can get a good interior defensive lineman in the first round this year. This is the year to do it from what I've heard about the quality of prospects.

Yes and no. There are some good ones for sure, but VERY early on I lean towards second round value being high but too much is unknown right now on how things fall out

 

[Vegscott]

Desperately need CB’s, probably two of them; if there’s a stud offensive lineman still available at some point, by all means. I want to say Edge, but I truly have high hopes for what they already have (except for Van Ness, pains me to say it because I like the kid, but he’s trending toward bust). Either way, the pass rush against decent opposing O-lines left a lot to be desired. Would like to see another linebacker, which reminds me, as great of an athlete as Walker is he seems lost every third play. Oh, and sign Tee Higgins

 

[Team Ronny]

I agree corner is a big need, but I think dline is bigger. You can have average corners like Nixon and Valentine, if you have a stout dline that is consistently pressuring the QB.

 

[txj]

Watching the Eagles, what stuck out for me again and again was Howie Roseman.

How is it that the Eagles and several other teams are able to draft difference makers, especially on D and OL, and year after year, the Packers invest draft capital in these areas and never seem to find any beyond a smattering of few...

People are just too comfortable in their positions and I'm sick of watching average teams that cannot seriously challenge for the SB...

 

[tynimiller]

Watching the Eagles, what stuck out for me again and again was Howie Roseman.

How is it that the Eagles and several other teams are able to draft difference makers, especially on D and OL, and year after year, the Packers invest draft capital in these areas and never seem to find any beyond a smattering of few...

People are just too comfortable in their positions and I'm sick of watching average teams that cannot seriously challenge for the SB...

Couple things...you're letting yourself be blinded to some realities BUT you're right the Eagles hit rate in the draft has been INSANE....

- The Packers were the ONLY team in the playoffs to play the Eagles tough...and that was with essentially our entire receiving corps injured....to pretend we are not a team in contention as your post implies is ignoring truths.

-The average NFL team doesn't make it to the playoffs....let alone as consistently and routinely as GB has over the last nearly four decades.

-The Eagles have hit for sure of late on some guys however many don't remember they've literally picked above the Packers every single draft for the last four years

2021, they (PHI) drafted in the top 10 of the draft...something the Packers simply rarely if EVER have done a whole lot of in my entire life time (38 years). Why you ask? Because we are literally one of the best perennial teams in the entire league and rarely faulter into terribleness and if we do it is usually for one year only.

1.10 They drafted DeVonta Smith WR
2.37 They added Landon ****erson OL

GB
1.29 Eric Stokes...who many are choosing to forget looked like a star of the future as a rookie...sadly out of anyone's control injuries stalled him and likely stole being a starter in the league it seems as he's never quite returned to the form he ended that rookie campaign.
2.62 Josh Myers...not a **** pick for sure but is a very much PHI type pick as they did something similar in 2022 drafting Cam Jurgens in the second round who quietly has been solid for them, not amazing but solid (step above arguably Myers IMO).

2022, Philly again drafted higher than GB at 13th overall in the first...again something folks fail to remember.

1.13 Jordan Davis...this was the first time we watched a potential character issue guy fall to Philly as many of the top 10 teams drafted elsewhere (massive WR run this year helped PHI too). Davis has been SOLID.
2.51 Cam Jurgens....as touched on above, not a **** pick and yet is how you build your trenches.

GB
1.22 - Quay Walker who everyone knows I've been a massive critic of. At the time of the draft everyone recognized his massive athletic profile and figured top 40/45 type guy who could go in the first but might not. He's bottomline been a day in and day out starter which is no small feat...he merely suffers from being a first rounder (despite not even being a top 20 guy)...if he was a second rounder I think massive majority of fanbase embraces and celebrates his pick.
1.28 - Devonte Wyatt...again unaminous first round talent from nearly anyone you talked to and many didn't think would make it to us. He a lot like Quay is starting to come into his own now years later but again if he was a second rounder some would praise it.
2.34 - Christian Watson....Only Doubs and Drake London have produced more touchdowns than him, his 16.86 yards per catch is only exceeded by Alec Pierce in the draft class at 17.55. THE ONLY thing folks can say that makes Watson not a homerun pick is availability - you cannot predict injuries, an unfortunate truth.

2023, Philly AGAIN picked ahead of the Packers at 9th overall on Day 1

1.9 - Jalen Carter, second time a "character discussed guy to some 'fell' " he is a BEAST
1.30 - Nolan Smith edge - Nolan Smith showed everyone when allowed to just rush and not worry about run defense he is a speed demon.

GB
1.13 - Lukas Van Ness...consensus first round prospect but HAS NOT illustrated he is going to become the guy many felt he would - despite being a very young prospect.
2.42 - Luke Musgrave....hit ground running rookie year and was pretty solid when able to be out there...injury issues of course unforeseen is an issue with him. However, most realize the weapon he is and can be.
2.50 - Jayden Reed...stalled a little end of 2024 but he has been a dynamite pick.


2024, Philly again picked ahead of the Packers.

1.22 - Quinyon Mitchell CB - one of my favorite prospects of that season.
2.40 - Traded up to get DeJean DB which just one year done but looks amazing.

GB
1.25 - Jordan Morgan OL...there is no telling but against PHI in the playoffs having Morgan not injured may very well have saved that game or made it even closer than it already was. Injuries simply cannot be predicted and sadly Gute in small or large ways has had injury bug bite three straight seasons in a first or second rounder.
2.45 - Edgerrin Cooper...injury bug and than slow progress into an electric player for sure.
2.58 - Javon Bullard....proved he is our best tackling slot guy pushed up towards box, absolute starter in the league.

Overall just in first two rounds here is the two lists:

PHI - DeVonta Smith, Landon ****erson, Jordan Davis, Cam Jurgens, Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith, Quinyon Mitchell and DeJean. Philly has "hit" on their top picks at a rate and more importantly a level of which I don't recall ANY team doing in a four year stretch. Add in the fact this is following the 2020 draft where they had Hurts fall to them in the second (rest of the draft class hasn't given much at all really).

GB has "hit" on a lot of NFL worthy starters but not any gamechangers outside of arguably Watson when healthy, Reed and Edgerrin so far.

 

[txj]

Couple things...you're letting yourself be blinded to some realities BUT you're right the Eagles hit rate in the draft has been INSANE....

- The Packers were the ONLY team in the playoffs to play the Eagles tough...and that was with essentially our entire receiving corps injured....to pretend we are not a team in contention as your post implies is ignoring truths.

-The average NFL team doesn't make it to the playoffs....let alone as consistently and routinely as GB has over the last nearly four decades.

-The Eagles have hit for sure of late on some guys however many don't remember they've literally picked above the Packers every single draft for the last four years

2021, they (PHI) drafted in the top 10 of the draft...something the Packers simply rarely if EVER have done a whole lot of in my entire life time (38 years). Why you ask? Because we are literally one of the best perennial teams in the entire league and rarely faulter into terribleness and if we do it is usually for one year only.

1.10 They drafted DeVonta Smith WR
2.37 They added Landon ****erson OL

GB
1.29 Eric Stokes...who many are choosing to forget looked like a star of the future as a rookie...sadly out of anyone's control injuries stalled him and likely stole being a starter in the league it seems as he's never quite returned to the form he ended that rookie campaign.
2.62 Josh Myers...not a **** pick for sure but is a very much PHI type pick as they did something similar in 2022 drafting Cam Jurgens in the second round who quietly has been solid for them, not amazing but solid (step above arguably Myers IMO).

2022, Philly again drafted higher than GB at 13th overall in the first...again something folks fail to remember.

1.13 Jordan Davis...this was the first time we watched a potential character issue guy fall to Philly as many of the top 10 teams drafted elsewhere (massive WR run this year helped PHI too). Davis has been SOLID.
2.51 Cam Jurgens....as touched on above, not a **** pick and yet is how you build your trenches.

GB
1.22 - Quay Walker who everyone knows I've been a massive critic of. At the time of the draft everyone recognized his massive athletic profile and figured top 40/45 type guy who could go in the first but might not. He's bottomline been a day in and day out starter which is no small feat...he merely suffers from being a first rounder (despite not even being a top 20 guy)...if he was a second rounder I think massive majority of fanbase embraces and celebrates his pick.
1.28 - Devonte Wyatt...again unaminous first round talent from nearly anyone you talked to and many didn't think would make it to us. He a lot like Quay is starting to come into his own now years later but again if he was a second rounder some would praise it.
2.34 - Christian Watson....Only Doubs and Drake London have produced more touchdowns than him, his 16.86 yards per catch is only exceeded by Alec Pierce in the draft class at 17.55. THE ONLY thing folks can say that makes Watson not a homerun pick is availability - you cannot predict injuries, an unfortunate truth.

2023, Philly AGAIN picked ahead of the Packers at 9th overall on Day 1

1.9 - Jalen Carter, second time a "character discussed guy to some 'fell' " he is a BEAST
1.30 - Nolan Smith edge - Nolan Smith showed everyone when allowed to just rush and not worry about run defense he is a speed demon.

GB
1.13 - Lukas Van Ness...consensus first round prospect but HAS NOT illustrated he is going to become the guy many felt he would - despite being a very young prospect.
2.42 - Luke Musgrave....hit ground running rookie year and was pretty solid when able to be out there...injury issues of course unforeseen is an issue with him. However, most realize the weapon he is and can be.
2.50 - Jayden Reed...stalled a little end of 2024 but he has been a dynamite pick.


2024, Philly again picked ahead of the Packers.

1.22 - Quinyon Mitchell CB - one of my favorite prospects of that season.
2.40 - Traded up to get DeJean DB which just one year done but looks amazing.

GB
1.25 - Jordan Morgan OL...there is no telling but against PHI in the playoffs having Morgan not injured may very well have saved that game or made it even closer than it already was. Injuries simply cannot be predicted and sadly Gute in small or large ways has had injury bug bite three straight seasons in a first or second rounder.
2.45 - Edgerrin Cooper...injury bug and than slow progress into an electric player for sure.
2.58 - Javon Bullard....proved he is our best tackling slot guy pushed up towards box, absolute starter in the league.

Overall just in first two rounds here is the two lists:

PHI - DeVonta Smith, Landon ****erson, Jordan Davis, Cam Jurgens, Jalen Carter, Nolan Smith, Quinyon Mitchell and DeJean. Philly has "hit" on their top picks at a rate and more importantly a level of which I don't recall ANY team doing in a four year stretch. Add in the fact this is following the 2020 draft where they had Hurts fall to them in the second (rest of the draft class hasn't given much at all really).

GB has "hit" on a lot of NFL worthy starters but not any gamechangers outside of arguably Watson when healthy, Reed and Edgerrin so far.

At the end of the day, its all a long list of excuses...and I'm sick and tired of excuses...
We are not the only team to draft at comparatively lower levels. Look at Baltimore, SF, even this season's Rams..

 

[tynimiller]

At the end of the day, its all a long list of excuses...and I'm sick and tired of excuses...
We are not the only team to draft at comparatively lower levels. Look at Baltimore, SF, even this season's Rams..

You didn't even read the post, because it highlights how essentially Philly has been perfect in their top draft picks over the stretch of time to build what we saw last night....but sure go ahead and dig that hole and insert head rather than have true nuanced discussions about things.

Have a good one.

I'll make one final attempt though since you made statements... the teams you identified are for sure a few of the perennial teams in the mix each year of late however team management strategies have been very different which is interesting:

Baltimore Day1 draft positions vs GB last five seasons:
2024 - 30 vs 25
2023 - 22 vs 13
2022 - 14 & 25 vs 22 & 28
2021 - 27 & 31 vs 29
Last four seasons record - 43 - 25 (One AFCCG appearance)

SF Day1 vs GB
2024 - 31 vs 25
2023 - ZERO vs 13
2022 - ZERO vs 22 & 28
2021 - 3 vs 29
Last four seasons record - 41 - 27 (multiple NFCCG appearances and one SB appearance)
*Finding a franchise QB in the seventh saved them.

Rams Day1 vs GB
2024 - 19 vs 25
2023 - ZERO vs 13
2022 - ZERO vs 22 & 28
2021 - ZERO vs 29
Last four seasons record - 37 - 31 (won 2021 Super Bowl in part using alot of Day1 equity above in build for that)

GB last four seasons record 41 - 27


The Niners and Rams are great illustrations of risk it all and use draft equity to get there...it worked for the Rams and the only thing that kept the Niners from a catastrophic fall is Purdy steal in the seventh...I truly believe if Purdy didn't happen the turmoil of that organization would have been MASSIVE. Proof of just how unknown things are when it comes to prospects. We will never know what might of been because what is, is a pretty awesome story about a 7th rounder.

The Ravens are honestly a VERY similar team to the Packers...they dabble in FA when needed, have been relevant for a long time (not quite as long or as consistent as GB but close) and they do well building the roster through the draft (all levels of the draft).

 

[Magooch]

The thing for me is that IMO it's not just "hit rate" but a big difference in philosophy in how Philly has been aggressive in attacking their assessed needs. In some ways it comes back to the old debate between drafting for need vs BPA/"value".
Philly needed to upgrade their WR room...so they went out and traded a first and a third to move up just two spots in the 1st to draft Devonta Smith....and then turned around and traded a first and third to bring in AJ Brown. Needed a RB, and went out and gave Saquon a top-of-the-market rate in free agency. Needed to revamp their secondary...drafted CB in the first AND traded up to be able to draft their desired CB in the second.
Of course that is not the only way to succeed but I don't think you are EVER going to see that kind of aggression out of the current administration here...Spending a first on a WR then trading a first for another is probably the kind of thing that wakes Gute up in the middle of the night sweating buckets...

 

[tynimiller]

The thing for me is that IMO it's not just "hit rate" but a big difference in philosophy in how Philly has been aggressive in attacking their assessed needs. In some ways it comes back to the old debate between drafting for need vs BPA/"value".
Philly needed to upgrade their WR room...so they went out and traded a first and a third to move up just two spots in the 1st to draft Devonta Smith....and then turned around and traded a first and third to bring in AJ Brown. Needed a RB, and went out and gave Saquon a top-of-the-market rate in free agency. Needed to revamp their secondary...drafted CB in the first AND traded up to be able to draft their desired CB in the second.
Of course that is not the only way to succeed but I don't think you are EVER going to see that kind of aggression out of the current administration here...Spending a first on a WR then trading a first for another is probably the kind of thing that wakes Gute up in the middle of the night sweating buckets...

Oh it is for sure the fact Howie has rocked every high level swing he has taken...now his scouting department I'd argue has been mid at best outside of his first two rounds so their depth of knowledge may not be as strong but I'm telling you the amount of home runs per swing by Howie the last four years has been insane! Every trade, every signing...all of it....and then to top it off that his team this year was very healthy when needed all led to what we saw last night.

 

[txj]

The thing for me is that IMO it's not just "hit rate" but a big difference in philosophy in how Philly has been aggressive in attacking their assessed needs. In some ways it comes back to the old debate between drafting for need vs BPA/"value".
Philly needed to upgrade their WR room...so they went out and traded a first and a third to move up just two spots in the 1st to draft Devonta Smith....and then turned around and traded a first and third to bring in AJ Brown. Needed a RB, and went out and gave Saquon a top-of-the-market rate in free agency. Needed to revamp their secondary...drafted CB in the first AND traded up to be able to draft their desired CB in the second.
Of course that is not the only way to succeed but I don't think you are EVER going to see that kind of aggression out of the current administration here...Spending a first on a WR then trading a first for another is probably the kind of thing that wakes Gute up in the middle of the night sweating buckets...

This is PRECISELY my point! I give ZERO credit to those who sit genially and repeat the same thing year after year and end up not really moving the needle.

To quote the immortal Sarah Palin only dead fish stand still...

Howie Roseman is not simply lucky. If he is indeed lucky, then Gute is unlucky, and that is even worse!!!!

I'm sick and tired of the excuses!!!

 

[tynimiller]

This is PRECISELY my point! I give ZERO credit to those who sit genially and repeat the same thing year after year and end up not really moving the needle.

To quote the immortal Sarah Palin only dead fish stand still...

Howie Roseman is not simply lucky. If he is indeed lucky, then Gute is unlucky, and that is even worse!!!!

I'm sick and tired of the excuses!!!

Every decision a GM makes is a literal flip of the coin, sure they’ll have various levels of confidence in the outcomes but still vastly unknown.

The amount of teams that deplete their draft equity in a trade and it not work out are numerous.

The amount of teams that have not hit literally four years in a row with their first and second round picks is numerous…the amount of teams that didn’t see theirs become literal game changes four years straight is zero.

The amazing thing Howie did was as things stacked and fell into place working out he kept riding that wave and swinging for the fences…and by some design, hope, educated guesses and yes luck they connected each time.

I’ve never seen this arguable level of perfection on high level swings and hits ever in my lifetime sustained for this many years.

I only wish it’d been the Packers.

Them being insanely healthy cannot be understated as well, something not a single GM can control.

When someone really looks back on the past four years and all the decisions Philly made, it is hard to find fault in any. Just crazy

 

[txj]

Every decision a GM makes is a literal flip of the coin, sure they’ll have various levels of confidence in the outcomes but still vastly unknown.

The amount of teams that deplete their draft equity in a trade and it not work out are numerous.

The amount of teams that have not hit literally four years in a row with their first and second round picks is numerous…the amount of teams that didn’t see theirs become literal game changes four years straight is zero.

The amazing thing Howie did was as things stacked and fell into place working out he kept riding that wave and swinging for the fences…and by some design, hope, educated guesses and yes luck they connected each time.

I’ve never seen this arguable level of perfection on high level swings and hits ever in my lifetime sustained for this many years.

I only wish it’d been the Packers.

Them being insanely healthy cannot be understated as well, something not a single GM can control.

When someone really looks back on the past four years and all the decisions Philly made, it is hard to find fault in any. Just crazy

I'm in the data analysis business. If it works repeatedly, its evidence of a pattern. Its not luck.



Going by your luck theory, perhaps we should hire California Psychic

 

[tynimiller]

I'm in the data analysis business. If it works repeatedly, its evidence of a pattern. Its not luck.



Going by your luck theory, perhaps we should hire California Psychic

LOL of course when you discuss a window of time where all works out you'll say pattern not luck.

The irony of it all is I've been given massive kudos to the facts in what Howie did...yet you can't observe anything that doesn't align within your blinders of view...

Fanbases generally speaking massively oversimplify things and ALWAYS only see their teams' failings and fail to understand why it isn't as simple as they outline in summation of what worked last for a team to achieve the goal.

This very fanbase just mere years ago were arguing for Gute to gut the team of draft capital in order to trade for the answers...other years I'll hear how it is as simple as drafting the for sure no doubt guys in the draft and building....others believe it is only achieved through FA no doubters.

I don't disagree with you however in the fact that review and adjustments are always needed - even Philly has to do this, BUT I have seen GB come off their "assumed typical" draft types or practices already in the past two drafts and I suspect we might continue to see that PLUS Gute is about to be active. He knows very well, this roster is primed for a roster between youth and potential showing a few key additions and a some solid luck in the health department someone would have to be ignorant to football to not think GB will again be one of the top 4 NFC Teams in the running for the SB.

 

[txj]

LOL of course when you discuss a window of time where all works out you'll say pattern not luck.

The irony of it all is I've been given massive kudos to the facts in what Howie did...yet you can't observe anything that doesn't align within your blinders of view...

Fanbases generally speaking massively oversimplify things and ALWAYS only see their teams' failings and fail to understand why it isn't as simple as they outline in summation of what worked last for a team to achieve the goal.

This very fanbase just mere years ago were arguing for Gute to gut the team of draft capital in order to trade for the answers...other years I'll hear how it is as simple as drafting the for sure no doubt guys in the draft and building....others believe it is only achieved through FA no doubters.

I don't disagree with you however in the fact that review and adjustments are always needed - even Philly has to do this, BUT I have seen GB come off their "assumed typical" draft types or practices already in the past two drafts and I suspect we might continue to see that PLUS Gute is about to be active. He knows very well, this roster is primed for a roster between youth and potential showing a few key additions and a some solid luck in the health department someone would have to be ignorant to football to not think GB will again be one of the top 4 NFC Teams in the running for the SB.

Serial underachievement is also a pattern you know...I'm not naive. I know its not easy.
But that's the very nature of competitive sport! Nobody gives you anything..
One cannot persist with the rinse and repeat and then expect to be be commended for standing still..