The Turk makes his annual appearance -- cutdown weekend

[Dantés]

"Clearly not the case" was in reference to your realization that I "decide these things". You might call it snide self-effacement. Get it now?

In general, I find your defensive attacks off-putting.

Well in general, I find your condescension annoying so I guess we all have problems.

 

[Dantés]

Whitehurst benefited from being unsullied in not having sh*t the bed in money games. In fact, he had not thrown an NFL ball in his 4 seasons. He was "clean", like a draft pick but with preseason experience. Kizer cannot make that claim. There's NFL tape that weighs against him unless he proves something to the contrary in money games.

So how did that Whitehurst thing work out? If you had said somebody among 31 teams would offer a day 2 pick for Kizer out of desperation based on preseason play, I probably might say there's no accouting for sutpidity given that tape. But on the merits? Uh, uh.

Maybe you're not old enough to remember the Hasselbeck trade. The Packers traded Hasselbeck and the #17 pick to Seattle for their #10 pick and their 3rd. rounder. The JJ value chart makes the difference between those 1st. round picks equivalent to a 2nd. rounder. Hasselbeck's value to Seattle was based on no starts in his 2 years and 19 regular season passes. "Clean". At least in that example the trade actually worked out for the acquirer. That would have been a better example for you, if more stale.

However, whether 8 years ago or 20, it doesn't seem to happen that way these days. Garoppolo, in 2 starts in money games with NE went 2-0, with a 113 rating and no picks. That's a meaningful value bump over a merely "clean" player. And JG goes for just a 2nd. rounder. Garoppolo was "clean plus".

Kizer is not "clean". Whatever potential he may have, there is the overhanging liability of that rookie tape. He needs to something to erase it to have decent trade value. He may not have that opportunity.

“I was wrong but here’s a really long post to try to talk around that.”

Got it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I said the same thing about protecting one of the 3 rookies, so don't "feel bad" LOL

In my head, I meant if the Packers find themselves in desperate need of a WR by week 3 and they have to sit and wait for a now healthy JK to get off the IR, I would be a bit ticked at the decision to stash him, if it was just to save Waters.

Here's the thing about putting one of the rookies on IR. He'd have to be injured. That didn't happen. There are rules about that and penalties for breaking them. It's the kind of thing Hoodie might try.

As for the rest, we'll probably never know. I would be quite surprised if anybody in the know ever said, "Kumerow could have come back after 2 weeks," if that's in fact the case.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Here's the thing about putting one of the rookies on IR. He'd have to be injured. That didn't happen. There are rules about that and penalties for breaking them. It's the kind of thing Hoodie might try.

As for the rest, we'll probably never know. I would be quite surprised if anybody in the know ever said, "Kumerow could have come back after 2 weeks," if that's in fact the case.

I didn't mean "sneak a player illegally onto the PS". Quite awhile ago I posted something like "I wouldn't be that upset if one of the rookie WR's had a minor injury, not one to derail his career, but just enough to get him on the IR". I got my wish in a sense with JK landing there. I am still a bit surprised that the Packers kept all 3 rookies, but fingers crossed they aren't needed too much for awhile. Who is first off the bench? My money is on MVS, unless Rodgers has established a good repertoire with Moore or EQ.

 

[sschind]

I actually think Philly and everyone else would be in for a rude awakening again if they expect to see the same performance from Foles this year as at the end of last. He's not that great of a QB. Perfect timing, perfect coaching. He's not that talented of a QB, can do a few things well for sure, but now again. Everyone has taken apart his smaller skill set and I think you'll find he is not nearly as effective. I'd love for him to have to play 4-5 games into the season for the Eagles.

I agree that he is not the QB that those calling for trading Wentz and the like think he is but he is better than the likes of Hoyer, Henne, Siemian and a bunch of other backups in the league. Don't forget in 2013 he had a 27/2 td/int ratio and he does carry a winning record. I haven't looked at their schedule but if he had to play 4-5 games I think they could easily go 2-2 or 3-2. That's something I'm not sure Kizer could do at this point and I really doubt Hundley could. Granted .500 isn't what fans want from their QB and playing 16 games as a starter and going 8-8 isn't anything to write home about but stepping in and going 2-2 over a 4 game stretch while your franchise QB recovers might be all that is needed.

You may not know exactly how a vet QB will perform tomorrow, but you do have enough real game film to see what you most likely can expect. The Packers Real game film on Hundley going into 2017 was:
2 completions on 10 attempts for 17 yards, 0 TD's and 1 INT.

I would rather pin my SB hopes on an average vet QB with game experience over that.

Exactly. Opposing defenses didn't know what to expect. He was our secret weapon. Too bad he didn't stay a secret.

For the record I was hoping for a veteran backup before last season as well I just didn't see many that I liked. After seeing the way Hundley performed I think just about anyone could have done better which is what you are saying. Heck, I think Kizer probably could have done better

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree that he is not the QB that those calling for trading Wentz and the like think he is but he is better than the likes of Hoyer, Henne, Siemian and a bunch of other backups in the league. Don't forget in 2013 he had a 27/2 td/int ratio and he does carry a winning record. I haven't looked at their schedule but if he had to play 4-5 games I think they could easily go 2-2 or 3-2. That's something I'm not sure Kizer could do at this point and I really doubt Hundley could. Granted .500 isn't what fans want from their QB and playing 16 games as a starter and going 8-8 isn't anything to write home about but stepping in and going 2-2 over a 4 game stretch while your franchise QB recovers might be all that is needed.

Funny thing is, considering what teams like the Texans paid for a QB like Brock Osweiler, or the Bears paid Mike Glennon (4 starts $18.5M), there always seems to be some QB hungry team out there willing to pay top dollar for the 3-5 year guys that have flashed just enough that there is hope he is the next up and coming star. Foles is in his 7th year in the league, he has to be viewed as a bargain and might be a guy that the Eagles are more than happy to carry at $5.5M/year for insurance for as long as he can play.

I would love to have a Nick Foles type of guy on the Packers. Paying $4.5M more than Kizer costs isn't that much if it wins you some games. It would be a good dilema to have, but even if Kizer improves a lot in the next 2 years, AR will probably still be playing and then all you can do is try and trade Kizer and start the whole process over of trying to find a backup or AR's eventual replacement.

 

[sschind]

Funny thing is, considering what teams like the Texans paid for a QB like Brock Osweiler, or the Bears paid Mike Glennon (4 starts $18.5M), there always seems to be some QB hungry team out there willing to pay top dollar for the 3-5 year guys that have flashed just enough that there is hope he is the next up and coming star. Foles is in his 7th year in the league, he has to be viewed as a bargain and might be a guy that the Eagles are more than happy to carry at $5.5M/year for insurance for as long as he can play.

I would love to have a Nick Foles type of guy on the Packers. Paying $4.5M more than Kizer costs isn't that much if it wins you some games. It would be a good dilema to have, but even if Kizer improves a lot in the next 2 years, AR will probably still be playing and then all you can do is try and trade Kizer and start the whole process over of trying to find a backup or AR's eventual replacement.

I agree 100% I just don't see any out there. Obviously we have no idea how any would perform if called upon but I honestly wouldn't feel any more comfortable with Henne or Hoyer, or Glennon or anyone else that was available than I do with Kizer. There were a few and Moore is still out there but most of the vet FAs available last year had me satisfied with going with Hundley.

 

[XPack]

Packers release CB Quinten Rollins, RB Devante Mays with injury settlements

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...lins-rb-devante-mays-with-injury-settlements/

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Packers release CB Quinten Rollins, RB Devante Mays with injury settlements

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...lins-rb-devante-mays-with-injury-settlements/

No surprises there. That leaves a 2015 draft class of Monty and Ryan.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Packers release CB Quinten Rollins, RB Devante Mays with injury settlements

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/20...lins-rb-devante-mays-with-injury-settlements/

Not particularly surprising.

 

[MiamiBeachPacker]

Packers placed Trevor Davis on IR and claimed CB Deante Burton off waivers. They also signed CB Will Redmond to the practice squad and released S Marwin Evans.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Packers placed Trevor Davis on IR and claimed CB Deante Burton off waivers. They also signed CB Will Redmond to the practice squad and released S Marwin Evans.

Interesting move, in that they must feel they don't have the numbers at CB and liked Burton. I still am waiting for an OLB to be brought in.

Redmond is even more interesting:

Prior to the draft, Redmond was projected as one of the top cornerbacks in the 2016 NFL Draft by Mel Kiper Jr.[11] and as a first-round pick by Todd McShay,[12] who remarked that Redmond showed "excellent quickness and agility, which is why he gives up little separation in man-to-man coverage."

San Fran ended up grabbing him in the 3rd. Injuries derailed his rookie season.

 

[GleefulGary]

Obligatory ‘McShay and Kiper are hacks’ post.

 

[ARPackFan]

2015 Draft : Monty is last man standing.

1. Damarious Randall, CB, Arizona State

2. Quinten Rollins, CB, Miami (OH)

3. Ty Montgomery, WR, Stanford

4. Jake Ryan, LB, Michigan

5. Brett Hundley, QB, UCLA

6a. Aaron Ripkowski, FB, Oklahoma

6b. Christian Ringo, DL, Louisiana-Lafayette

6c. Kennard Backman, TE, Alabama-Birmingham

 

[GleefulGary]

2015 Draft : Monty is last man standing.

1. Damarious Randall, CB, Arizona State

2. Quinten Rollins, CB, Miami (OH)

3. Ty Montgomery, WR, Stanford

4. Jake Ryan, LB, Michigan

5. Brett Hundley, QB, UCLA

6a. Aaron Ripkowski, FB, Oklahoma

6b. Christian Ringo, DL, Louisiana-Lafayette

6c. Kennard Backman, TE, Alabama-Birmingham

Jake Ryan is still on the team, he’s just injured.

Still, pretty awful draft.

 

[swhitset]

Jake Ryan is still on the team, he’s just injured.

Still, pretty awful draft.

Agreed... and yet right after that draft.... most people thought it was a pretty good one.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Agreed... and yet right after that draft.... most people thought it was a pretty good one.

Some will still call it successful if Randall somehow turns into a Pro Bowler over there in Cleveland!

I guess in fairness, you kind of have to add DeShone Kizer as a "resulting product" of that draft, so things are looking up.

 

[GleefulGary]

Agreed... and yet right after that draft.... most people thought it was a pretty good one.

Most people are optimistic after a draft. It’s part of being a fan.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Interesting move, in that they must feel they don't have the numbers at CB and liked Burton. I still am waiting for an OLB to be brought in.

Redmond is even more interesting:
Prior to the draft, Redmond was projected as one of the top cornerbacks in the 2016 NFL Draft by Mel Kiper Jr.[11] and as a first-round pick by Todd McShay,[12] who remarked that Redmond showed "excellent quickness and agility, which is why he gives up little separation in man-to-man coverage."

San Fran ended up grabbing him in the 3rd. Injuries derailed his rookie season.

They had only 5 CBs on 53 man roster and only Troy Brown on the PS prior to these two signings. 6 on the 53 man roster is typical. If they're going to run this much dime defense all year they may need 7.

Looks like Davis is heading for an injury settlement.

Never heard of Burton. 4 year WR at Kansas St. converted to CB while on ATL's PS last season, his first in the league. No KO or punt returns in college.

Looks like Cobb and Montgomery, the old stand-bys, for return duty until a viable alternative comes along.

Redmond evidently had a bad ACL in his final college season, Oct. 2015. He spent all of 2016 on SF's IR. Then he was put on SF's IR to start 2017 with an ankle injury, then released and picked up by KC for their PS in Oct. 2017, then cut by KC in 2018 before the start of the season. Some guys are never quite the same after a bad ACL, some guys take 2 years to get right. I recon that's what Gutekunst aims to find out.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Appears with Trevor Davis going on IR, the Packers aren't overly concerned with a Punt Returner being exposed to injuries as some here had thought. The latest depth chart lists the position as follows:

PR: Randall Cobb, Jaire Alexander, Tramon Williams

Personally, I like having Cobb back there. He seems to make good decisions, has been doing it since 2011 and as we saw Sunday night, is very capable. His only "blemish" is his 8 career fumbles. 5 of those happened in his first 2 years, so I hope he has learned how to secure the ball better.

Even better still, all 3 of those guys are doing other things to contribute, Davis wouldn't have been.

 

[PackAttack12]

Appears with Trevor Davis going on IR, the Packers aren't overly concerned with a Punt Returner being exposed to injuries as some here had thought. The latest depth chart lists the position as follows:

PR: Randall Cobb, Jaire Alexander, Tramon Williams

Personally, I like having Cobb back there. He seems to make good decisions, has been doing it since 2011 and as we saw Sunday night, is very capable. His only "blemish" is his 8 career fumbles. 5 of those happened in his first 2 years, so I hope he has learned how to secure the ball better.

Even better still, all 3 of those guys are doing other things to contribute, Davis wouldn't have been.

McCarthy said no restrictions or "playing it safe" on punt returns with Cobb or whoever. I like it.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

McCarthy said no restrictions or "playing it safe" on punt returns with Cobb or whoever. I like it.

Me as well. Can a punt returner get hurt? Sure they can. But so can a guy playing WR and the Packers have had their share of those. I really don't recall that the punt returner is some how more susceptible to injuries than any other guy on the field, but maybe I am wrong.

 

[Poppa San]

I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure MVS was back to receive the last KR after the Bears FG.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm sure you'll correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure MVS was back to receive the last KR after the Bears FG.

I think you are right and he returned it 21 yards, otherwise I believe it was Monty most of the night? I only watched the game once (Live) and much of the first half is a blur, since all I could think of was Rodgers injury and then the second half was so damn "are you kidding me?" that I was so caught up in the excitement I wasn't watching the individual play that much. I need to watch it again, at least the second half

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Appears with Trevor Davis going on IR, the Packers aren't overly concerned with a Punt Returner being exposed to injuries as some here had thought. The latest depth chart lists the position as follows:

PR: Randall Cobb, Jaire Alexander, Tramon Williams

Personally, I like having Cobb back there. He seems to make good decisions, has been doing it since 2011 and as we saw Sunday night, is very capable. His only "blemish" is his 8 career fumbles. 5 of those happened in his first 2 years, so I hope he has learned how to secure the ball better.

Even better still, all 3 of those guys are doing other things to contribute, Davis wouldn't have been.

With Davis on injured reserve the Packers don't have any other viable option than to use a player either contributing on offense or defense to serve as their punt returner. While that is positive on one side it seems the risk of getting injured is higher on those plays.