The path for Aaron Rodgers to become the GOAT

[PackAttack12]

I guess it depends on who is doing the evaluating. Brady fans will say he has 7 rings and those who are not fans will say its a team effort and he has BB. Non Patriot fans will point to those things you mentioned and say lucky but can anyone honestly say their team hasn't gotten lucky in some big games.

IMO Brady it the GOAT The championships may have been a team effort but as long as the QB gets a disproportionate amount of the credit, and the blame, he gets to reap the benefits of being the leader on the field.

Rodgers is great. If someone wants to put forth arguments for his consideration I will listen as it is legit but it will take something more for me to agree. Not so much for the top 10 because obviously he has to be pretty close for that if not there already and if his career keeps going like it has for another 3 seasons he is a lock for top 10 even if there are no more championships.

Assuming no more championships, and he puts up around career averages for another few seasons, he's definitely top 10, IMO.

My definition of great is a combination between rings and numbers. Got to have both to be "great". So right now (I have them numbered, but it's no particular order)

1. Brady - 5 rings in 7 tries, has played almost 2 decades. He's got the numbers. 25-9 postseason record, 2 MVP's
2. Montana - 4 rings in 4 tries. Never threw a pick in the SB. 16-7 postseason record. Nearly 2-1 TD/INT ratio. 40,000+ career yards, 2 MVP's
3. Elway - 2 rings in 5 tries. 14-7 postseason record. 51,000+ career passing yards. 1 MVP.
4. Favre - 1 ring in 2 tries. 13-11 postseason recordSecond in all time passing yards and passing TD's. 3 MVP's.
5. Manning - 2 rings in 4 tries. 14-13 postseason record. First in passing yards and TD's. 5 MVP's.

Not only are they outstanding talents with big career numbers, they have at least one MVP to show for it, and at least one ring.

So then you look at Aaron Rodgers, he's got 1 ring in 1 try, 9-7 postseason record, already 11th all time in passing TDs (will be in the top 10 before September is over), with a 4,100+ yard season, he'll leap frog several QBs on the all time list to get to 15th, with plenty of time to go to finish in the top 5-7 at the least. Best TD-INT ratio of all time and best passer rating of all time. Two MVP's.

Even if you add in what Starr and Unitas accomplished in a different era of the game, and then a great talent like Marino that never won a Super Bowl (but did lose to Montana, tough to hold that against him), by my count that's only 8 QBs you can make a case for.

Personally, if Rodgers keeps up his current pace, the only two you can make the argument for being "greater" is Montana and Brady.

 

[Mondio]

I do agree. The semantics may change, but there are different flavors of greatness. You always have to nail down exactly what you mean when saying "greatest" or "best" or whatever else, and people usually enter the situation with different meanings based upon their agenda. I also totally agree with an above comment that if Rodgers had the 5 rings and Brady the 1, we would all be crowing about how Brady had to match Rodgers' championships to enter the conversation. /shrug.

IF Rodgers had 5 rings and Brady 1, I don't think Brady would even be considered in the competition with Rodgers as the greatest all time. By anyone.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

IF Rodgers had 5 rings and Brady 1, I don't think Brady would even be considered in the competition with Rodgers as the greatest all time. By anyone.

That wasn't the point of the comment. The point was the perspective of those having the conversation, and how that effects their criteria. Everyone has self-selection bias.

 

[Sky King]

As one privileged enough to have seen Starr through Brady play, and everyone else in-between, I'm definitely on the Starr bandwagon. He was the best high-pressure performer at QB that I have ever seen. Money in the bank. Nobody else was better in an era where it was pretty much legal to mug a defenseless QB. Starr had guile and toughness in abundance.

 

[rmontro]

IF Rodgers had 5 rings and Brady 1, I don't think Brady would even be considered in the competition with Rodgers as the greatest all time. By anyone.

I agree with that completely. Unfortunately, that is a very big if.

As one privileged enough to have seen Starr through Brady play, and everyone else in-between, I'm definitely on the Starr bandwagon. He was the best high-pressure performer at QB that I have ever seen. Money in the bank. Nobody else was better in an era where it was pretty much legal to mug a defenseless QB. Starr had guile and toughness in abundance.

The reason I gave you a like for that comment rather than an agree is because I don't like to compare QBs from different eras.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Path for AR to become the GOAT just got more expensive for the Packers. Hard to believe that Matthew Stafford is the highest paid player in the NFL, but as soon as AR is given a new contract, that will change.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ions-matthew-stafford-agree-to-135m-extension

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The Path for AR to become the GOAT just got more expensive for the Packers. Hard to believe that Matthew Stafford is the highest paid player in the NFL, but as soon as AR is given a new contract, that will change.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ions-matthew-stafford-agree-to-135m-extension

It's absolutely ludicrous that teams continue to hand out that kind of money for mediocre quarterbacks. Stafford hasn't even won a playoff game during his career.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It's absolutely ludicrous that teams continue to hand out that kind of money for mediocre quarterbacks. Stafford hasn't even won a playoff game during his career.

No problem convincing me of that. Reminds me of Baseball when "the next up and coming" Pitcher would sign a ground breaking huge contract and that would just bring up the numbers on every new contract signed after that. Or just "meh" average guys getting big money because a team is desperate for a franchise QB.

When are teams going to stop over paying the Brock Osweiler's, Kirk Cousin and Mike Glennon's of the league?

 

[rmontro]

The Path for AR to become the GOAT just got more expensive for the Packers. Hard to believe that Matthew Stafford is the highest paid player in the NFL, but as soon as AR is given a new contract, that will change.

I'm concerned that our Super Bowl chances just went out the window. If we pay Rodgers that much (and it's hard to believe we won't), that's less money to spend on the supporting cast.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'm concerned that our Super Bowl chances just went out the window. If we pay Rodgers that much (and it's hard to believe we won't), that's less money to spend on the supporting cast.

Which is probably the explanation of why TT is building up the excess Cap war chest.

If the Lions can justify paying Stafford that kind of money and still think they will be in contention for a Super Bowl.....oh wait......break for a good belly laugh........but yeah, the Packers will find a way to make AR the highest paid player and still compete.

 

[rmontro]

If the Lions can justify paying Stafford that kind of money and still think they will be in contention for a Super Bowl.....oh wait......break for a good belly laugh........but yeah, the Packers will find a way to make AR the highest paid player and still compete.

First off, the Lions can get by without being in contention for a Super Bowl. They've never won a Super Bowl, and no one expects that of them.

Secondly, "the Packers will find a way" isn't very reassuring. They haven't found a way in the past six years. They'd better find some very creative accountants is what they'd better find. One thing I respect about Brady is that he takes less money than he can get, just so the Patriots have more money to spend on the rest of the team. That's why he has five rings. I'm not sure if I can see Rodgers taking less. I mean, I could see it, but until it actually happens we won't know for sure. I get the feeling that Rodgers ego would demand he be paid like the best quarterback in the league.

I seem to recall some discussion of quarterback salaries and Super Bowl wins. Steve Young holds the record for the QB who won the Super Bowl who accounted for highest percentage of the cap. Here are some numbers. I'm not sure it's realistic to expect the Packers to win a Super Bowl while paying Rodgers $30 million a year:

% of Cap Spent on SB Winning QB

Year Name Cap %
1994 Young 13.1%
1995 Aikman 6.7%
1996 Favre 10.2%
1997 Elway 5.2%
1998 Elway 5.0%
1999 Warner 1.3%
2000 Dilfer 1.6%
2001 Brady 0.47%
2002 Johnson 9.6%
2003 Brady 4.4%
2004 Brady 6.3%
2005 Roethlisberger 4.9%
2006 P. Manning 10.4%
2007 E. Manning 9.2%
2008 Roethlisberger 6.8%
2009 Brees 8.3%
2011 E. Manning 11.7%
2012 Flacco 6.6%
2013 Wilson 0.56%

https://overthecap.com/super-bowl-titles-high-salary-quarterbacks/

 

[PackAttack12]

First off, the Lions can get by without being in contention for a Super Bowl. They've never won a Super Bowl, and no one expects that of them.

Secondly, "the Packers will find a way" isn't very reassuring. They haven't found a way in the past six years.

He said the Packers will find a way to still compete. They have competed for the past 6 years, given that they've made the playoffs each season and participated in the NFCCG in a third of those years. Don't confuse winning the Super Bowl with competing, and drawing equivalencies between the two. They're different.

At 30 million, Rodgers would occupy the same percentage of the cap that he did in 2013 when he signed his new contract. And if that's what he wants, I don't blame him for demanding it, given how much extra millions of the cap Thompson's fails to utilize on a yearly basis.

 

[Carl]

It's absolutely ludicrous that teams continue to hand out that kind of money for mediocre quarterbacks. Stafford hasn't even won a playoff game during his career.

While Stafford's contract is way too much, he is better than mediocre.

 

[rmontro]

He said the Packers will find a way to still compete. They have competed for the past 6 years, given that they've made the playoffs each season and participated in the NFCCG in half of those years. Don't confuse winning the Super Bowl with competing, and drawing equivalencies between the two. They're different.

A good point. And as long as we have Rodgers, we will compete. But as you say, actually winning is a different thing.

I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom about this, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't concerned about it.

Rodgers himself responded to criticism that the Packers were underachievers a few weeks ago: "And in order for some of that stuff to go away, the outside noise, we’re going to have to win another Super Bowl. It would be disappointing if we were only able to win one in my time here."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nf...d-another-title-to-shut-up-critics/ar-AApCyna

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'm concerned that our Super Bowl chances just went out the window. If we pay Rodgers that much (and it's hard to believe we won't), that's less money to spend on the supporting cast.

The Packers currently have enough cap space to afford making Rodgers the highest paid player in the league, especially as there's a smart way to structure the contract without significantly increasing his cap hit during the early portion of the deal.

One thing I respect about Brady is that he takes less money than he can get, just so the Patriots have more money to spend on the rest of the team. That's why he has five rings. I'm not sure if I can see Rodgers taking less. I mean, I could see it, but until it actually happens we won't know for sure. I get the feeling that Rodgers ego would demand he be paid like the best quarterback in the league.

I truly dislike that the media has been able to convince fans the perception about Brady taking less money to be true. The truth is that including the 2017 season Brady has been paid more cash ($106.5 million) than Rodgers ($103.3 million) since the Packers last won the Super Bowl six years ago though.

He said the Packers will find a way to still compete. They have competed for the past 6 years, given that they've made the playoffs each season and participated in the NFCCG in half of those years.

Did you happen to have the same maths teacher as Mondio and SkyKing??? According to my inquiries two out of six only equals one out of three.

 

[PackAttack12]

Did you happen to have the same maths teacher as Mondio and SkyKing??? According to my inquiries two out of six only equals one out of three.

Well unlike the dynamic duo of mathematics, I am capable of admitting when I am wrong when it's brought to my attention.

Temporary mind lapse.

 

[rmontro]

I truly dislike that the media has been able to convince fans the perception about Brady taking less money to be true. The truth is that including the 2017 season Brady has been paid more cash ($106.5 million) than Rodgers ($103.3 million) since the Packers last won the Super Bowl six years ago though.

That's not really a fair comparison, because Brady had been long established by the time Rodgers won his first Super Bowl. In fact, I'd argue that the salary cap favors teams who have relatively young quarterbacks, because they haven't had a chance to drive their salaries up yet.

Also, how much money you make isn't necessarily the same as how much it counts toward the salary cap, but I admit I am no expert on that particular subject.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That's not really a fair comparison, because Brady had been long established by the time Rodgers won his first Super Bowl. In fact, I'd argue that the salary cap favors teams who have relatively young quarterbacks, because they haven't had a chance to drive their salaries up yet.

Also, how much money you make isn't necessarily the same as how much it counts toward the salary cap, but I admit I am no expert on that particular subject.

Rodgers was definitely regarded as an elite quarterback around the league after the Packers won the Super Bowl in 2010.

It's true that the cash being spent on a player doesn't equal his cap hit, therefore teams need a smart front office to perfectly structure contracts. The Patriots have done a better job in that regard resulting in the false perception that Brady has taken less money.

I agree the salary cap definitely favors teams having a decent quarterback still playing under his rookie contract.

 

[Sky King]

Did you happen to have the same maths teacher as Mondio and SkyKing???

Well unlike the dynamic duo of mathematics, I am capable of admitting when I am wrong when it's brought to my attention.

Temporary mind lapse.

You guys crack me up. When you finally figure out the difference between net and gross you might understand how finishing the draft with two less picks than what the team started out with is the bottom line cost -- and the true value of swapping second-round picks. We can see that you can't spell any better than you are able to subtract 7 from9. Maths?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

We can see that you can't spell any better than you are able to subtract 7 from9. Maths?

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/maths

In addition there's a pretty clear rule on pointing out spelling mistakes and typos on the forum:

If anyone here ever has an issue with how someone types, spells, or using the wrong word, for instance:

Receiving core and not receiving corp (we had to lay this out perfectly because some posters were confused)

Please do not point out the mistakes in the forum. Send that person a pm please. You're going to open up a whole mess that no one wants to deal with. Be respectful of the person and not embarrass them in front of their fellow Packer and NFL fans.

 

[Sky King]

Estudié el lenguaje pero no matemáticas. No soy exactamente fluido pero puedo hablar lo suficiente como para meterse en problemas al sur de su frontera.

 

[Sky King]

BTW, your English is just fine. I apologize for the remark.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I agree the salary cap definitely favors teams having a decent quarterback still playing under his rookie contract.

Agreed, and that goes with any big contract player a team might have. We saw that with Seattle and Wilson, Cowboys are currently in that mode with Prescott and Elliott......the teams that have to come to grips with reality and pay their "over achieving rookie contract key contributors" usually see how it dilutes the talent you can afford to pay the remaining part of the roster and in turn, can decrease the talent level of that roster beyond those players. This is another area where I tip my hat to TT and Ball, during this long stretch of successful seasons, they have had to pay some top money to some key contributors, yet they still find a way to field a quality team each year and not overburden the future cap while doing it.

 

[rmontro]

Rodgers was definitely regarded as an elite quarterback around the league after the Packers won the Super Bowl in 2010.

Absolutely agree, but that wasn't my point. I was saying that when we won the Super Bowl in 2010, Rodgers had not been a starting quarterback long enough to maximize his earning potential (even though he was highly respected). He was still a big financial bargain at the time. I guess you can argue that he'd be a bargain at any price, but there does come a point where a team can be hampered by one or two superstars' high salaries.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

This is another area where I tip my hat to TT and Ball, during this long stretch of successful seasons, they have had to pay some top money to some key contributors, yet they still find a way to field a quality team each year and not overburden the future cap while doing it.

While there's no doubt Thompson and Ball have done a great job managing the cap I often wonder about the overall talent level on the roster aside of the quarterback position.

Absolutely agree, but that wasn't my point. I was saying that when we won the Super Bowl in 2010, Rodgers had not been a starting quarterback long enough to maximize his earning potential (even though he was highly respected). He was still a big financial bargain at the time.

While I didn't include the 2010 season in my numbers it's true that Rodgers wasn't paid like an elite quarterback until signing an extension in '13.