The path for Aaron Rodgers to become the GOAT

[RepStar15]

This depends on who you talk too. If you talk to any patriot fan Rodgers needs to win 4 more super bowls to be considered GOAT. So basically Rodgers is at fault for the consistent lack of defense the Packers produce. If you talk to anyone else in the league, at least one more super bowl, continue leading the league in career QBR. IMO winning percentage is important but 52 other guys and about 12 coaches play a major roll in that. I think the facts are this:

Aaron Rodgers would make 31 other teams in this league better. Period. He would make the Patriots better. He would make Atlanta better. He would make Oakland better. Etc.

Tom Brady would make 27 teams better. Not the packers, Oakland, Atlanta, Steelers (because he can't throw a deep ball), or Tampa bay (because that offense doesn't fit Brady's system). Brady is the product of the perfect system for his skills that the GOAT coach developed for him.

That being said, Bill Bellichick would make 31 teams immediately better.

 

[Quientus]

(...)
Tom Brady would make 27 teams better. Not the packers, Oakland, Atlanta, Steelers (because he can't throw a deep ball), or Tampa bay (because that offense doesn't fit Brady's system). Brady is the product of the perfect system for his skills that the GOAT coach developed for him.

That being said, Bill Bellichick would make 31 teams immediately better.

http://kwese.espn.com/blog/new-engl...r-timely-to-revisit-tom-bradys-deep-ball-rise

And Yes Brady would make the Packers better - as Brady is a better Leader than Rodgers ... all though, hopefully, that changes ...

 

[rmontro]

If you talk to any patriot fan Rodgers needs to win 4 more super bowls to be considered GOAT..

Can't really blame them for saying that though. If Rodgers had five rings to Brady's one, Packer fans would probably be saying the same thing.
I've never been one to believe that simply counting the # of championships is the way to determine the GOAT though. In fact, I don't even like comparing different eras, so I'm not big on the idea of a GOAT anyway.

 

[Alex42152]

There are many ways of attempting to determine what constitutes being the greatest quarterback in the history of the NFL. Some could look at Dan Marino and say that he had the greatest arm talent the game has ever seen, put up huge numbers in an era where you didn't see that type of QB production, but unfortunately never had a defense to help him win SB's.

Some could look at Peyton Manning and say that no one ever controlled the line of scrimmage better than he did, and he also played in 4 super bowls with 4 different head coaches (Dungy, Caldwell, Fox, Kubiak). Highly impressive.

Many look at Joe Montana and say that no one ever performed like he did on the biggest stage, 4 super bowls in 4 tries, with 3 MVP's, and never threw an interception in a SB. That's as Jordan-esque as it gets.

Then many over the past few years have looked at Tom Brady. As a complete body of work, how could you not? 5 victories in 7 tries, and the past 2 super bowls he had to come back from double digit deficits to close the deal and was phenomenal in those "back against the wall" situations.

So there's certainly different criteria to consider, but IMO, we can't go simply off of SB's because anyone with half a brain can tell you that Marino was a better quarterback than Aikman, but Aikman has 3 titles to zero for Marino.

Aaron Rodgers is better than Roethlisberger and little Manning, but they both have 2 titles to his 1.

So my question is simple, what does Rodgers have to do to put himself in serious conversation/consideration for greatest quarterback of all time?

Let's consider his current resume. Eight playoff appearances, three NFC Championship games appeared in, has a TD to INT ratio of 3.6 to 1. He's already 5th all time in playoff TD's, has better overall playoff numbers for his career than Tom Brady, cool Joe, and many of the other all time greats.

In my opinion, I think he has to find a way to snag at least 2 more super bowls before he hangs it up. He's definitely got a ton of work to do to get there, but fortunately for Rodgers, he already has 1, with a SB MVP to go with it, and didn't throw a pick in that SB. If he can get to three rings, with three MVP's, and perhaps find a way to not throw a pick in all three games, I think that certainly puts him in the conversation.

Unfortunately, as great as I feel that he is, he will never get the type of recognition and adulation he deserves without more hardware, even though I feel as if he's done all that he can do without more help from his defense to get it done.

I would say Rodgers has bare minimum 4 MVP level seasons left, with his current mobility that makes him so outstanding. Perhaps up to 7 depending on how he ages.

So what's got to happen for him to get there?

*Yes. I know that some will roll their eyes at this thread and say that we've had these discussions many times in the past, but I feel this has a different overall premise behind it. Also, it's July and I'm losing my mind waiting for some football.

Look, of course I want Aaron Rodgers to win 2 or even more SB trophies and that would help us people recognize he is the GOAT, but in fact SB wins don´t define a player individually, but a complete team. If the QB is really good but the rest of the team is not doing their part, nothing´ll be possible

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Look, of course I want Aaron Rodgers to win 2 or even more SB trophies and that would help us people recognize he is the GOAT, but in fact SB wins don´t define a player individually, but a complete team. If the QB is really good but the rest of the team is not doing their part, nothing´ll be possible

I already do recognize him (in my own mind) as the GOAT.....I'm set

 

[Alex42152]

I already do recognize him (in my own mind) as the GOAT.....I'm set

I do as well, I was just saying that fans from other teams would recognize him as well with more SB like Patriots or Steelers fans, which is really boring because their mind is really dumb, lol

 

[rmontro]

Look, of course I want Aaron Rodgers to win 2 or even more SB trophies and that would help us people recognize he is the GOAT, but in fact SB wins don´t define a player individually, but a complete team.

I like Aaron, but I don't want Super Bowl wins to prove that Rodgers is the GOAT (I'm not even sure I believe in the concept of a GOAT), I want Super Bowl wins because I'm a Packer fan. Having a QB with Rodgers' skill should be an asset toward attaining that.

Here's a link to a recent article where Rodgers responds to those who accuse the Packers of accepting mediocrity. It's great that they've made the playoffs eight straight years, but when you have that kind of success, you'd like them to break through and win the whole thing more than once. I guess once is a gift in itself, I don't want to sound ungrateful. But Favre's Packers at least went to two Super Bowls, and most people think Rodgers is a better QB. Obviously the main difference there is that Rodgers doesn't have Reggie White.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfcnorth/p...ut-aaron-rodgers-and-packers-want-more-titles

 

[XPack]

It's a give that AR12 would make HoF, but where does he stand among the all time great pantheon of "elite" QBs?

Who are your picks for currently playing elite QBs?
I'd go with Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers & Drew Brees

Of the above, Brady is generally considered GOAT and tops most if not all all-time charts. Brees has made the Top 10 in couple of rankings available online, Brett Favre features regularly but Aaron Rodgers is at best an 'honourable mention'. Not that these ranking have any meaning, but still a starting point for discussion.

Do you think AR12 will ever crack to all-time Top 10? Is him not being in all-time Top 10 his fault or just overall underachievement of the team?

 

[PackAttack12]

With AR's all time great numbers (1st in passer rating, 1st in TD-INT ratio), along with already being a 2-time MVP, Super Bowl Champion, and Super Bowl MVP, it would be remarkably tough to leave him outside of any all time top 10.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/the-path-for-aaron-rodgers-to-become-the-goat.73957/

This thread about the exact same topic, featuring close to 250 posts, was created only 1 1/2 months ago.

 

[gbgary]

statistically at this point (games played) he's the best all-time i believe. wins/loses isn't a qb stat...neither is SBs. w/l/sb is a team measure.

 

[XPack]

This thread about the exact same topic, featuring close to 250 posts, was created only 1 1/2 months ago.

lol, blame it on off season. Didn't realize we had a similar thread.

Mods, feel free to merge.

 

[Mondio]

I don't pay much attention to these lists. I really don't need anybody to tell me how good Rodgers is or validate what I think about him. Once you're in the conversation, that's about all there is. There is always something to find fault in with everyone and use it to prop up the "best" in your opinion. 20 years ago I may have taken more time to debate it. Anyway, my guess is he's made honorable mention for 2 reasons. #1 create some reason for people to think he's slighted so they in turn feel slighted and then post more about it and generate traffic to a website and #2, he's still playing. I know Brady is too, but he's almost done, regardless of what he says he'd like to do. and coming off a super bowl win, one in which his defense, a RB and an amazing off the ankle grab by a WR were the major factors in winning, along with a bigger choke job than GB pulled off against Seattle by the Falcons, they won. Coming off a Super Bowl win and having a few others to fill your fingers is going to put you at the top of the list. My guess is if the Falcons run, run, run, kick and win the Super Bowl, the conversation surrounding Brady this offseason has a slightly different tone. Not to take anything away from him, i love the guy and how he plays. Always have, but the conversation right now would be different. once he steps away from the game, the faults and the circumstances surrounding all those titles are going to be talked about a lot more.

anyway, rather long winded for a guy that says he doesn't care about these lists much When all is said and done, Rodgers won't be on the Honorable mention list.

 

[PackAttack12]

I don't pay much attention to these lists. I really don't need anybody to tell me how good Rodgers is or validate what I think about him. Once you're in the conversation, that's about all there is. There is always something to find fault in with everyone and use it to prop up the "best" in your opinion. 20 years ago I may have taken more time to debate it. Anyway, my guess is he's made honorable mention for 2 reasons. #1 create some reason for people to think he's slighted so they in turn feel slighted and then post more about it and generate traffic to a website and #2, he's still playing. I know Brady is too, but he's almost done, regardless of what he says he'd like to do. and coming off a super bowl win, one in which his defense, a RB and an amazing off the ankle grab by a WR were the major factors in winning, along with a bigger choke job than GB pulled off against Seattle by the Falcons, they won. Coming off a Super Bowl win and having a few others to fill your fingers is going to put you at the top of the list. My guess is if the Falcons run, run, run, kick and win the Super Bowl, the conversation surrounding Brady this offseason has a slightly different tone. Not to take anything away from him, i love the guy and how he plays. Always have, but the conversation right now would be different. once he steps away from the game, the faults and the circumstances surrounding all those titles are going to be talked about a lot more.

anyway, rather long winded for a guy that says he doesn't care about these lists much When all is said and done, Rodgers won't be on the Honorable mention list.

Yep. 5-2 in SB's is much different than 4-3.

 

[Poppa San]

Mods, feel free to merge.

OK done

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

As long as there is an equivalency effect in the human brain, ie people think that visible success = personal greatness, Brady will be considered the GOAT. Such is life.

 

[sschind]

https://www.packerforum.com/threads/the-path-for-aaron-rodgers-to-become-the-goat.73957/

This thread about the exact same topic, featuring close to 250 posts, was created only 1 1/2 months ago.

Uh Uh, not the same at all. That thread was what does he need to do to be the GOAT. This one is what does he need to do to be top 10. Nope Nope Nope, not the same. Different. Completely different by a factor of 10.

 

[PackAttack12]

As long as there is an equivalency effect in the human brain, ie people think that visible success = personal greatness, Brady will be considered the GOAT. Such is life.

Tough to argue with.

Like I've repeatedly said though, and maybe you agree. There's a different in greatest and best. Right now, I definitely believe Brady is the greatest of all time. The postseason success speaks for itself. But Rodgers is the best. He's got the best overall quarterback skill/talent of any player in history.

Take three all time great quarterbacks and merge them into one, and that's Aaron Rodgers. Montana's touch, Marino's arm, Elways legs.

 

[sschind]

Yep. 5-2 in SB's is much different than 4-3.

You can debate the difference between 5-2 and 4-3 but the number that stands out for me even more is 7. I know SB wins are a team effort and that's why I do not put as much importance on them as others may but getting there 7 times is outstanding. Its the same way I feel about 4 times in a row.

 

[PackAttack12]

You can debate the difference between 5-2 and 4-3 but the number that stands out for me even more is 7. I know SB wins are a team effort and that's why I do not put as much importance on them as others may but getting there 7 times is outstanding. Its the same way I feel about 4 times in a row.

That's very true, and I agree. Like I said, Brady's the greatest. I think some feel as if he's gotten lucky (tuck rule, Pete Carroll taking the ball out of Lynch's hands at the goal line, Atlanta completely wetting the bed, etc) But at the end of the day, you can't argue with his results.

And having Bill Belichick, who has provided Tom Brady with a top 10 defense almost every single season, contributes to his frequency in the big game.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Like I've repeatedly said though, and maybe you agree. There's a different in greatest and best. Right now, I definitely believe Brady is the greatest of all time. The postseason success speaks for itself. But Rodgers is the best. He's got the best overall quarterback skill/talent of any player in history.

Take three all time great quarterbacks and merge them into one, and that's Aaron Rodgers. Montana's touch, Marino's arm, Elways legs.

I do agree. The semantics may change, but there are different flavors of greatness. You always have to nail down exactly what you mean when saying "greatest" or "best" or whatever else, and people usually enter the situation with different meanings based upon their agenda. I also totally agree with an above comment that if Rodgers had the 5 rings and Brady the 1, we would all be crowing about how Brady had to match Rodgers' championships to enter the conversation. /shrug.

 

[PackAttack12]

I do agree. The semantics may change, but there are different flavors of greatness. You always have to nail down exactly what you mean when saying "greatest" or "best" or whatever else, and people usually enter the situation with different meanings based upon their agenda. I also totally agree with an above comment that if Rodgers had the 5 rings and Brady the 1, we would all be crowing about how Brady had to match Rodgers' championships to enter the conversation. /shrug.

And things such as the fact that Brady has had a top 10 defense every year that he's won the Super Bowl (and top 5 at least in 3 or 4 of them), and Rodgers hasn't had one since 2010 rarely get brought into the conversation by many, other than Packers fans of course.

 

[sschind]

That's very true, and I agree. Like I said, Brady's the greatest. I think some feel as if he's gotten lucky (tuck rule, Pete Carroll taking the ball out of Lynch's hands at the goal line, Atlanta completely wetting the bed, etc) But at the end of the day, you can't argue with his results.

And having Bill Belichick, who has provided Tom Brady with a top 10 defense almost every single season, contributes to his frequency in the big game.

I guess it depends on who is doing the evaluating. Brady fans will say he has 7 rings and those who are not fans will say its a team effort and he has BB. Non Patriot fans will point to those things you mentioned and say lucky but can anyone honestly say their team hasn't gotten lucky in some big games.

IMO Brady it the GOAT The championships may have been a team effort but as long as the QB gets a disproportionate amount of the credit, and the blame, he gets to reap the benefits of being the leader on the field.

Rodgers is great. If someone wants to put forth arguments for his consideration I will listen as it is legit but it will take something more for me to agree. Not so much for the top 10 because obviously he has to be pretty close for that if not there already and if his career keeps going like it has for another 3 seasons he is a lock for top 10 even if there are no more championships.

 

[Candidate for Deletion]

Brady fans will say he has 7 rings

HOLY CRAP, seven rings? Man, even the Patriot FANS are cheating now! (yes, I am ashamed of myself. no, I'm not sorry)

 

[Sky King]

HOLY CRAP, seven rings? Man, even the Patriot FANS are cheating now! (yes, I am ashamed of myself. no, I'm not sorry)

Count 'em:
5 Championship rings
1 wedding ring
1 through his nose (held by super model)