The Aaron Rodgers performance thread

[XPack]

This year has been the year of upsets.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.....and I've got her gagged in my basement.

 

[Do7]

All things considered, probably. At this point in time, Russell Wilson is probably a better quarterback.. Patrick Mahomes is probably a better passer. The 49ers probably have a better team. The Titans have some sort of mojo going on right now.

Titans have the best running attack.

 

[AmishMafia]

All things considered, probably. At this point in time, Russell Wilson is probably a better quarterback.. Patrick Mahomes is probably a better passer. The 49ers probably have a better team. The Titans have some sort of mojo going on right now.

But Rodgers has the playoff experience, and he has the poise (to use his word). He also led the team without the usual eye rolling and bad body language. This will be Rodgers fourth NFCCG. If he can channel that poise to the rest of the team, that's our best chance.

I believe Rodgers issues are not due to age or degradation of skills. I think last season there was a rift with MM. I think this season his issue is more to do with lack of familiarity of the offense. His knowledge and experience should be an equalizer to youthful energy. If he can play more like he did against Seattle going forward, we have a chance.

 

[Dantés]

Rodgers was great yesterday because he was executing the offense. That, even more than improved weapons (also needed), is going to be huge in getting him back to playing at an elite level. This particular offensive system has traditionally taken about a season before it really starts to click.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I believe Rodgers issues are not due to age or degradation of skills. I think last season there was a rift with MM. I think this season his issue is more to do with lack of familiarity of the offense. His knowledge and experience should be an equalizer to youthful energy. If he can play more like he did against Seattle going forward, we have a chance.

I am fine with people saying all of this, but you really need to acknowledge what I believe is the biggest factor in #12's supposed "downturn". This being the fact that beside Davante Adams, Rodgers has absolutely no talent around him in the way of receivers.

Our #2 WR right now is Allan Lazzard, a guy that did not even make the final 53. Who came in when Lazzard went down? Jake Fricking Kumerow, a guy that has been in the league since 2015 and couldn't even make the rosters of 2 other teams and was probably the #5 or 6th guy on our depth chart to start the season. What happened to the other guys? MVS, Allison, Shepherd? They just aren't that good.

So keep talking about Rodgers bad throws, his bad reads, etc. but when doing so, understand that he is not playing the game alone and completing passes requires far more than just being able to deliver a football on a targeted spot. Those who don't acknowledge the fact that Rodgers is surrounded by the worst collective talent that he has ever had to work with, aren't being truthful to themselves or anyone that they may be trying to convince that Aaron Rodgers "decline" is only about Aaron Rodgers.

 

[rmontro]

I want a Yellow Weasel t-shirt!

I am fine with people saying all of this, but you really need to acknowledge what I believe is the biggest factor in #12's supposed "downturn". This being the fact that beside Davante Adams, Rodgers has absolutely no talent around him in the way of receivers.

I think age is a factor, people slow down, it's just a fact of life. That doesn't mean Rodgers can't perform at a very high level though. It just probably means he can't carry the team like he used to, and like Russell Wilson is carrying the Seahawks. Whatever happens the rest of this year, Gute simply has to address the offense during the offseason.

 

[gopkrs]

He did try to go to adams when adams was dbl covered almost triple...

Don't understand. Are you just repeating what I said?

 

[gopkrs]

I was stoked that Rodger's was throwing with accuracy as he always should. But I do wish his peripheral vision would get a tad better. I mean seeing other receivers besides Adams. I don't think just going to Adams is going to work in sf.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I want a Yellow Weasel t-shirt!


I think age is a factor, people slow down, it's just a fact of life. That doesn't mean Rodgers can't perform at a very high level though. It just probably means he can't carry the team like he used to, and like Russell Wilson is carrying the Seahawks. Whatever happens the rest of this year, Gute simply has to address the offense during the offseason.

Again, I agree with everything you are saying, but.....

Of course age is a factor. I don't think many of us are trying to say "OMG, Aaron is a better QB today then he was when he was 28, he can win no matter who his receivers are." Hell, he couldn't win and or struggled when he was younger and his top receivers were dropping like flies.

So it just gets a bit old hearing people talking about his decline without including or acknowledging the aspect of how the receiving talent he works with influences his numbers. Like I said, IMO one of the bigger factors is the lack of talent surrounding him now VS what he was playing with for most of his career.

This isn't golf that Aaron Rodgers is playing, where his talents are strictly what he and only he, does on the golf course. This is a football player with teammates that can positively or negatively influence what Rodgers does. Imagine running out on the field to run an offense and you have Jordy Nelson, Davante Adams, Randall Cobb and James Jones at your disposal. Then you wake up and Adams is still there, but the rest of the supporting cast are guys that probably don't even make other teams rosters and if they did, maybe as a #5 or 6. You probably wouldn't look as good as you once did and I have a feeling your confidence in your supporting cast declines, which could influence your overall play as well.

 

[Pugger]

I was stoked that Rodger's was throwing with accuracy as he always should. But I do wish his peripheral vision would get a tad better. I mean seeing other receivers besides Adams. I don't think just going to Adams is going to work in sf.

Of course Adams might be the one guy who gets open the most. Plus they have a good chemistry together so I can understand why AR would look Adams way, especially if the play breaks down and Aaron has to improvise.

 

[longtimefan]

Don't understand. Are you just repeating what I said?

Kind of confirming what you said

 

[Poppa San]

I want a Yellow Weasel t-shirt!

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

YELLOW WEASEL T-SHIRT
$28.00

ETA: I had the link to the Dan Patrick show but I deleted it when I remembered our rules against linking to T-Shirt sites.

 

[Mondio]

I believe Rodgers issues are not due to age or degradation of skills. I think last season there was a rift with MM. I think this season his issue is more to do with lack of familiarity of the offense. His knowledge and experience should be an equalizer to youthful energy. If he can play more like he did against Seattle going forward, we have a chance.

I would add the quality of his passing targets too. Rodgers may not have 100% command of the offense yet, and it likely takes a season or 2, but guys don't seem to be catching on too quickly either. When you're expecting one thing on a timing play and you're not sure if they're going to xy or z on any given play, it affects it. There was a good example with Rodgers rolling to his left, Adams was coming across the field, found the soft spot and slowed her down, Rodgers hit him perfectly.

I"ve seen so many others continue that route right into the coverage and with only half a field, Rodgers has to throw it away. Every sees a throwaway and groans at Rodgers.

Is it a coincidence he targeted mostly adams, on almost every route imaginable in every route on the field and was dead nuts accurate?

I don't think Rodgers has lost much of anything other than the familiarity like you said, and that's understandble, yes even almost a full year in and the confidence in your pass catchers to run the right route and make the right read. It all matters.

 

[AmishMafia]

I am fine with people saying all of this, but you really need to acknowledge what I believe is the biggest factor in #12's supposed "downturn". This being the fact that beside Davante Adams, Rodgers has absolutely no talent around him in the way of receivers.

Our #2 WR right now is Allan Lazzard, a guy that did not even make the final 53. Who came in when Lazzard went down? Jake Fricking Kumerow, a guy that has been in the league since 2015 and couldn't even make the rosters of 2 other teams and was probably the #5 or 6th guy on our depth chart to start the season. What happened to the other guys? MVS, Allison, Shepherd? The just aren't that good.

So keep talking about Rodgers bad throws, his bad reads, etc. but when doing so, understand that he is not playing the game alone and completing passes requires far more than just being able to deliver a football on a targeted spot. Those who don't acknowledge the fact that Rodgers is surrounded by the worst collective talent that he has ever had to work with, aren't being truthful to themselves or anyone that they may be trying to convince that Aaron Rodgers "decline" is all about Aaron Rodgers.

Unless we can replace Aaron Jones with someone 8'11", Geronimo Allison with a guy who is glowing bright orange and has 8' long arms, and MVS with someone who can run a 3.1 40, ARs accuracy issues has little to do with the WRs.

It would be great to have some better WRs and that could make AR more effective. But when AR is throwing as poorly as he has at times, it wouldnt matter all that much.

My mocks the last few years usually feature a WR in the first 3 rounds, I want to improve the WR corps. But it wont matter as much as folks think unless AR gets into the groove

 

[Mondio]

Unless we can replace Aaron Jones with someone 8'11", Geronimo Allison with a guy who has arms 8' long, and MVS with someone who can run a 3.1 40, ARs accuracy issues has nothing to do with the WRs.

It would be great to have some better WRs and that could make AR more effective. But when AR is throwing as poorly as he has at times, it wouldnt matter all that much.

But it does. If I have to hesitate at all in a timing decision, a split second and it's all off. If they're supposed to be outside the numbers when I complete the play action and breaking to the outside as I throw the ball, but I see them still running up field because they took 2 extra steps and I have to hold it, it is going to affect the play, accuracy, timing everything.

Or the bubble screen to lazard and he takes off across the middle of the field, that's going to affect timing and accuracy. it all matters.

That's not to say Rodgers couldn't have thrown some better passes, he could have. But the quality of his receiver has affected it, he can clearly be as accurate as anyone.

 

[longtimefan]

It would be great to have some better WRs and that could make AR more effective. But when AR is throwing as poorly as he has at times, it wouldnt matter all that much.

I agree.

Missing wheel routes and wide open slants and wide open long passes..

That isn't in the receivers

 

[AmishMafia]

But it does. If I have to hesitate at all in a timing decision, a split second and it's all off. If they're supposed to be outside the numbers when I complete the play action and breaking to the outside as I throw the ball, but I see them still running up field because they took 2 extra steps and I have to hold it, it is going to affect the play, accuracy, timing everything.

Or the bubble screen to lazard and he takes off across the middle of the field, that's going to affect timing and accuracy. it all matters.

That's not to say Rodgers couldn't have thrown some better passes, he could have. But the quality of his receiver has affected it, he can clearly be as accurate as anyone.

Do we replace Adams? He has missed him on passes as well.

 

[AmishMafia]

Look, I'm all for upgrading WRs. I have not changed in that stance. But those who think our WRs are garbage and AR isnt the main problem are fooling themselves.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

My mocks the last few years usually feature a WR in the first 3 rounds, I want to improve the WR corps.

Exactly! As has mine and I bet Aaron Rodgers mock drafts would parallel most of ours. Why is this so? Because we, he and just about everyone have been witnessing the absolute decline of talent at the position. How do you think that decline affects Aaron Rodgers mindset? How would you feel if you worked on a racing pit crew and excelled at your job, but the other 4 or 5 guys you had to work with weren't as skilled as most?

I'm just going to say it one more time and then try to wait another year before jumping back into this conversation. There is no doubt that at the age of 36, Rodgers has lost a step and is not as accurate as he once was. However, its pretty frustrating to have the conversation when the "other side" can't even acknowledge that his performance has declined in a direct relationship with the decline in the talent around him.

This next offseason will tell me a lot in regards to how Gute and the Packers feel about the receiver talent.

 

[RepStar15]

Exactly! As has mine and I bet Aaron Rodgers mock drafts would parallel most of ours. Why is this so? Because we, he and just about everyone have been witnessing the absolute decline of talent at the position. How do you think that decline affects Aaron Rodgers mindset? How would you feel if you worked on a racing pit crew and excelled at your job, but the other 4 or 5 guys you had to work with weren't as skilled as most?

I'm just going to say it one more time and then try to wait another year before jumping back into this conversation. There is no doubt that at the age of 36, Rodgers has lost a step and is not as accurate as he once was. However, its pretty frustrating to have the conversation when the "other side" can't even acknowledge that his performance has declined in a direct relationship with the decline in the talent around him.

This next offseason will tell me a lot in regards to how Gute and the Packers feel about the receiver talent.

It it time to invest an early pick on a WR, there is no doubt about it. We have had success with second round picks (Davante, Nelson and Cobb) so even if they wait until the second round I would feel OK. This half assed wait until the fourth round to try and get a "steal" has not given us much success. WR is our biggest need. 1st or 2nd needs to be a WR, then go ahead and add another in the 4th.
**I am happy they have focused on the defense early in the draft the past two years, but now focusing on this position is a must**

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

It it time to invest an early pick on a WR, there is no doubt about it. We have had success with second round picks (Davante, Nelson and Cobb) so even if they wait until the second round I would feel OK. This half assed wait until the fourth round to try and get a "steal" has not given us much success. WR is our biggest need. 1st or 2nd needs to be a WR, then go ahead and add another in the 4th.
**I am happy they have focused on the defense early in the draft the past two years, but now focusing on this position is a must**

While I definitely agree with you, I would say that by waiting this long to invest a high pick in a WR, the Packers might be wise to sign a decent FA WR or trade for one, until a high pick can develop. If you look back at the solid WR's that Rodgers has worked with, most of them took a year or two or four as was the case with Jordy, to start producing big numbers.

Looking ahead to the 2020 season, the only WR on this current Roster that I view as being 100% locked into being on the 53 man roster is Davante Adams. Lazard, MVS, EQ and maybe Kumerow will all be around for camp, but none of them have a firm grip on a roster spot at this point IMO.

 

[PackAttack12]

Exactly! As has mine and I bet Aaron Rodgers mock drafts would parallel most of ours. Why is this so? Because we, he and just about everyone have been witnessing the absolute decline of talent at the position. How do you think that decline affects Aaron Rodgers mindset? How would you feel if you worked on a racing pit crew and excelled at your job, but the other 4 or 5 guys you had to work with weren't as skilled as most?

I'm just going to say it one more time and then try to wait another year before jumping back into this conversation. There is no doubt that at the age of 36, Rodgers has lost a step and is not as accurate as he once was. However, its pretty frustrating to have the conversation when the "other side" can't even acknowledge that his performance has declined in a direct relationship with the decline in the talent around him.

This next offseason will tell me a lot in regards to how Gute and the Packers feel about the receiver talent.

One side of the spectrum acknowledges that Rodgers needs to play better, along with acknowledging that he has the least amount of talent to work with that he ever has. And then the other side only focuses on Rodgers.

Doesn't take much for me to determine which is irrational.

 

[PackAttack12]

While I definitely agree with you, I would say that by waiting this long to invest a high pick in a WR, the Packers might be wise to sign a decent FA WR or trade for one, until a high pick can develop. If you look back at the solid WR's that Rodgers has worked with, most of them took a year or two or four as was the case with Jordy, to start producing big numbers.

Looking ahead to the 2020 season, the only WR on this current Roster that I view as being 100% locked into being on the 53 man roster is Davante Adams. Lazard, MVS, EQ and maybe Kumerow will all be around for camp, but none of them have a firm grip on a roster spot at this point IMO.

Exactly. For all of the raving most have been doing about Lazard, are we even sure he'll be on the roster next year? Think about it. We're ranting and raving about an undrafted free agent who didn't even make the initial 53 man roster.

Rodgers hasn't been all time great and he hasn't exhibited his peak ability as it relates to accuracy. But there have been flashes this year where you've seen that the man obviously still has all of the tools necessary.

New system + subpar receiving talent (less Davante) = less than peak level Aaron Rodgers. I'm not sure why some expected a seamless transition.

2015 was a down year for Rodgers. His leading receiver for the year was a washed up James Jones. Finished the season with him, Janis, and Abberderis. Along with a slow footed Richard Rodgers and a fat Eddie Lacy. It should come as no surprise that the next year with Jordy, Cobb, another year of seasoning for Davante, and the addition of Cook, you saw a more effective Rodgers.

Pretending as if his receiving talent has little or no causation to Rodgers' performance/statistics is humorous at best.

Mondio makes great points as it relates to the timing routes. All of these things have to be taken into consideration.

Again...I'll emphasize. Rodgers has not been as good as he's been known to be in the past. Some of that is on him. But some of it can also be attributed to what he has to work with.

 

[Mondio]

Do we replace Adams? He has missed him on passes as well.

A couple and that’s pretty normal for a QB. Rodgers has always missed at times. That’s not unheard of.

his less than good to great throws are being magnified by the fact that all season long there has been little to help him out either.

Graham made a nice adjustment on that replayed 3rd down and caught a catchable but not perfect ball. I see that from guys all over the league every single week and it’s largely been missing from our offense all year. Contrast with that the opening play in Detroit, Arguably one of Rodgers' worst games of his long career. Perfect pass and dropped. That's a huge play, moves the chains, already opens the offense etc. a missed play like that completely changes complexity of the game after it. When you have the perfect big ones being dropped and the less than perfect, but still catchable ones not being caught it magnifies the issue.

Go back and watch the "MVP" wilson in the Eagles game. he was missing guys and tossing stuff up and then his guys would go make a play instead of dropping them. people think he's god. What do they think if Metcalf and Lockett are catching them or running routes like MVS or Allison?

If pass catchers are making more plays just with the balls thrown, we’re likely having and “adjusting to new offense” conversation rather than the one we’ve been having all year.

Rodgers can throw some balls better, but all the stuff we don't see as fans play in and play out is having a greater impact than people realize. Timing affects pass rush, effects sacks and throw aways. and I like Allison as a player and what he is, but man, it's like 50/50 will he catch it or drop it and then 50/50 if he catches it, will he fumble it? I probably has as many fumbles out of bounds as he does inbounds thankfully or th eproblem would be even worse.

 

[swhitset]

Exactly. For all of the raving most have been doing about Lazard, are we even sure he'll be on the roster next year? Think about it. We're ranting and raving about an undrafted free agent who didn't even make the initial 53 man roster.

Rodgers hasn't been all time great and he hasn't exhibited his peak ability as it relates to accuracy. But there have been flashes this year where you've seen that the man obviously still has all of the tools necessary.

New system + subpar receiving talent (less Davante) = less than peak level Aaron Rodgers. I'm not sure why some expected a seamless transition.

2015 was a down year for Rodgers. His leading receiver for the year was a washed up James Jones. Finished the season with him, Janis, and Abberderis. Along with a slow footed Richard Rodgers and a fat Eddie Lacy. It should come as no surprise that the next year with Jordy, Cobb, another year of seasoning for Davante, and the addition of Cook, you saw a more effective Rodgers.

Pretending as if his receiving talent has little or no causation to Rodgers' performance/statistics is humorous at best.

Mondio makes great points as it relates to the timing routes. All of these things have to be taken into consideration.

Again...I'll emphasize. Rodgers has not been as good as he's been known to be in the past. Some of that is on him. But some of it can also be attributed to what he has to work with.

My initial response to that is... duh! Unfortunately as obvious as all of that seems to be, there are some that cannot understand it.