Ridiculously early draft thread

[childerm]

I was aware of this as well... but one could say that Ted Thompson was more prescient than the other GMs in the league... or you could say he just got lucky. But either way it is a rare example of him taking some risk in free agency. That's something I wish he would do a little more of.

100% agree. With the success in some of the free agent pickups he had you would think he would try it more often.

 

[PikeBadger]

I was aware of this as well... but one could say that Ted Thompson was more prescient than the other GMs in the league... or you could say he just got lucky. But either way it is a rare example of him taking some risk in free agency. That's something I wish he would do a little more of.

He just got lucky. Just like he was lucky when Rodgers, Mathews, Nelson, Cobb, Bakhtiari, Linsely et al. were all available. He's just a lucky guy.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I mostly agree about Thompson's use of free agency. In addition to Hall's age I don't believe he ever was a #1 cornerback on any team he played therefore I would like the team to add a younger cornerback that has performed in that role already.

Hall was the 18th Overall Pick in 2007 out of Michigan and started almost immediately his rookie year for the Bengals. With Johnathan Joseph they were probably one of if not the best CB Duo in the AFC for 5+ seasons.

 

[Half Empty]

He just got lucky. Just like he was lucky when Rodgers, Mathews, Nelson, Cobb, Bakhtiari, Linsely et al. were all available. He's just a lucky guy.

Obviously, nobody is only good or lucky. There are lots of TT picks/moves that turned out great, as well as many that didn't.

Took me a while to go back to the original contention, but it was apparently about Woodson, in which case TT was good in recognizing there was still a lot left in the tank and lucky in that nobody else was throwing big bucks at him, in which case I doubt if the Pack lands Charles.

As for your list above, if TT was so sure that AR was going to be a savior, would he not have traded up to make sure he got him (ala Matthews)? I remember thinking that the pick was a good one in that Favre was already making noises and AR had been tossed around as either the top pick or #2. TT was good in that he DID pick Aaron, lucky that nobody else was thinking my/TT's way.

Matthews was an excellent pick, at least then, but TT made one of his few trades up, forking over a sizable payment. Too many unknowns (how far did he have to jump, how much did he have to pay) to really decide on lucky or good, but at least the talent evaluation was good.

Nelson and Cobb were both 2nd round choices, with Nelson being TT's first that year. I don't see getting a really good receiver out of those positions as either lucky or good, just something to be expected (and, depending on Cobb's recovery from a very pedestrian year so far, given his contract, maybe not all that great, anyhow).

Bak and Linsley, and a number of others, having certainly outplayed their draft status. Probably have to go with 'good' for those kind of players, but we've certainly hashed over the number of high choices that haven't turned out well, and does TT end up as 'bad' or 'unlucky' for those?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was aware of this as well... but one could say that Ted Thompson was more prescient than the other GMs in the league... or you could say he just got lucky. But either way it is a rare example of him taking some risk in free agency. That's something I wish he would do a little more of.

There have been rumors by several sources that Schneider actually persuaded Thompson to sign Woodson.

 

[Poppa San]

One overlooked TT tendency is he likes to draft young, as in age. Cobb was the first player born in the 90's in the NFL. Clarke just turned 21 this week? Finley was an early entry.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Speaking of Clark, many thought that Chris Jones would be an amazing selection for the Packers at the end of the first but the Packers went with Clark. Through only one season, admittedly not the final verdict, it appears that Jones would have been the far better pick. Chris Jones has been terrific rushing the QB at DT and has played the second most snaps among Chiefs' DTs. Clark, on the other hand, has been pretty m'eh and can't even get on the field for the Packers to any meaningful degree.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Speaking of Clark, many thought that Chris Jones would be an amazing selection for the Packers at the end of the first but the Packers went with Clark. Through only one season, admittedly not the final verdict, it appears that Jones would have been the far better pick. Chris Jones has been terrific rushing the QB at DT and has played the second most snaps among Chiefs' DTs. Clark, on the other hand, has been pretty m'eh and can't even get on the field for the Packers to any meaningful degree.

As an additional information PFF has Jones (81.8) graded way better than Clark (51.1) so far this season.

 

[Mondio]

I wonder how those rankings might change if they swapped teams.

 

[swhitset]

I wonder how those rankings might change if they swapped teams.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

 

[PackerDNA]

I wonder how those rankings might change if they swapped teams.

Exactly. I haven't seen Jones, but he is surrounded by better talent.

 

[Pkrjones]

Exactly. I haven't seen Jones, but he is surrounded by better talent.

If this is true then TT's drafting is highly suspect. The D has numerous 1st-Round picks playing alongside 1st rounder Clark ~ CM3, Perry, Jones, Peppers with Randall & Dix behind him. .

For the Chiefs surrounding Jones are 1st rounders: Poe, Hali, Johnson, Ford, with Peters & Berry behind.

 

[PackerDNA]

Better talent based on results.Outside of Peppers( over the hill, best years elsewhere) and Matthews(in decline) the rest have either done nothing yet or spent most of their careers flirting with bust status.

 

[Sky King]

Funny how Capers and Trgovac have been handed a string of first round talent and consistently they've managed to transform alleged diamonds into lumps of coal. I don't remember anyone suggesting that Trgovac should be held accountable for any of this. Yet, the oft maligned Campen has been given mostly scraps to work with and he's put together some fairly decent lines considering. So is it the coaches or is it something else?

 

[Mondio]

It's hard to say. I liked Jones actually. I can't say I do now, but I thought he had some good physical attributes to work with. He's shown flashes, and then you don't even realize he's playing. I thought he started out the year pretty good, but has faded to the point I don't even know when he's out there anymore unless its something bad. Coach? or Player?

I liked Perry. From his first penalty for a perfect sack on Andrew luck, i could see he was a strong as they come and would be good setting an edge and collapsing a pocket. and then he's been hurt ever since. I can't argue that's he's worked out great, but I'm not going to blame Ted for picking him either.

Randall is young, Peppers is old and Dix is pretty solid, but he's no Berry. Maybe with better stuff happening around him?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Time to start drafting and developing and forget about the FA Market or trades, I hear that is the recipe for building great defenses!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I liked Perry. From his first penalty for a perfect sack on Andrew luck, i could see he was a strong as they come and would be good setting an edge and collapsing a pocket. and then he's been hurt ever since. I can't argue that's he's worked out great, but I'm not going to blame Ted for picking him either.

Thompson deserves some criticism for selecting Perry as he publicly stated that he wanted to play in a 4-3 defense. In addition Harrison Smith would have filled a major need at the time of the 2012 draft.

 

[Half Empty]

Funny how Capers and Trgovac have been handed a string of first round talent and consistently they've managed to transform alleged diamonds into lumps of coal. I don't remember anyone suggesting that Trgovac should be held accountable for any of this. Yet, the oft maligned Campen has been given mostly scraps to work with and he's put together some fairly decent lines considering. So is it the coaches or is it something else?

Yes.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Funny how Capers and Trgovac have been handed a string of first round talent and consistently they've managed to transform alleged diamonds into lumps of coal. I don't remember anyone suggesting that Trgovac should be held accountable for any of this. Yet, the oft maligned Campen has been given mostly scraps to work with and he's put together some fairly decent lines considering. So is it the coaches or is it something else?

Perhaps you could point me to some of these diamonds-turned-coal becoming diamonds on another team? Packers have pretty much been terrible at drafting dlinemen with Daniels being the only guy who has been above-average, and he was a fourth round pick. It's easy to point to Campen and show how good his olines have been but much of that is also because Rodgers makes it much easier on the oline. There's no player on defense that makes it easier on the dline.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Exactly. I haven't seen Jones, but he is surrounded by better talent.

Jones has been much better, he's making the Chiefs defense better. If you want to argue that he's surrounded by better talent, wouldn't that mean that it would be harder for Jones to get on the field while Clark should find it easier? Clark is a rookie and has plenty of time to improve but, for their rookie years, it's obvious that Jones is the much better player as of now.

 

[Sky King]

Perhaps you could point me to some of these diamonds-turned-coal becoming diamonds on another team? Packers have pretty much been terrible at drafting dlinemen with Daniels being the only guy who has been above-average, and he was a fourth round pick. It's easy to point to Campen and show how good his olines have been but much of that is also because Rodgers makes it much easier on the oline. There's no player on defense that makes it easier on the dline.

Why ask me? I never said any of them did. Otherwise, your post and mine are pretty much in alignment.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

It's hard to say. I liked Jones actually. I can't say I do now, but I thought he had some good physical attributes to work with. He's shown flashes, and then you don't even realize he's playing. I thought he started out the year pretty good, but has faded to the point I don't even know when he's out there anymore unless its something bad. Coach? or Player?

I liked Perry. From his first penalty for a perfect sack on Andrew luck, i could see he was a strong as they come and would be good setting an edge and collapsing a pocket. and then he's been hurt ever since. I can't argue that's he's worked out great, but I'm not going to blame Ted for picking him either.

Randall is young, Peppers is old and Dix is pretty solid, but he's no Berry. Maybe with better stuff happening around him?

I guess you can't expect them to always nail it in the first, but you have to get great players somewhere. The great teams are littered with them. GB...not so much.

 

[Arthur Squires]

What makes it hurt worse? When the packers don't find multiple studs in each draft class or when the vikings strike gold in the last few? We need a RB that can change our offense and a well rounded TE with some speed. Christan McCaffrey and Jake Butt would be a huge upgrade for this offense. Then since Shields is done maybe Cameron Sutton in the 3rd. I doubt Vince Biegel in there in round 4, but he would be a guy who could play inside and outside for the defense. Our luck the Viks take him in round3.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Why ask me? I never said any of them did. Otherwise, your post and mine are pretty much in alignment.

My apologies, apparently I misunderstood the point of your post.

 

[Sky King]

My apologies, apparently I misunderstood the point of your post.

No problem.