Reggie Begelton Thread

[tynimiller]

Nice analysis, and if he does as you predict, a worthy number 3/4 on the depth chart.

That's long range projection...I do however think, now that we added Funchess think if he hits 20 recepts for 200 yards this year may be more like it. That is my assumption he doesn't break in higher than the #5WR.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Begelton will outperform, massively, if he is the 4th or 5th WR on the team. Undrafted, CFL player's don't generally amount to a whole lot. That doesn't mean he can't, just that counting on or expecting it is almost certainly setting a fan up for disappointment. Especially with a limited offseason to get on the same page with the rest of the offense.

 

[tynimiller]

Begelton will outperform, massively, if he is the 4th or 5th WR on the team. Undrafted, CFL player's don't generally amount to a whole lot. That doesn't mean he can't, just that counting on or expecting it is almost certainly setting a fan up for disappointment. Especially with a limited offseason to get on the same page with the rest of the offense.

To be fair, Lazard was undrafted and didn't make it even on some practice squads...and arguably is our #2 if forced to pencil one in presently. Covid-19 is hurting his chances for sure, as he is a lot like ESB in the sponge mentality, and that is a big difference between making the last spot or two and not sometimes.

 

[Heyjoe4]

That's long range projection...I do however think, now that we added Funchess think if he hits 20 recepts for 200 yards this year may be more like it. That is my assumption he doesn't break in higher than the #5WR.

It comes down to where Funchess ends up. My expectation is he’ll be the #3 WR, behind Adams and Lazard. The one guy I just don’t think cuts it is MVS. He seems to still be playing by NCAA rules. Not impressed.

ESB is a bit of a wild card. Last year was a redshirt season. I really do hope he steps up, but hope is not a strategy.

 

[tynimiller]

It comes down to where Funchess ends up. My expectation is he’ll be the #3 WR, behind Adams and Lazard. The one guy I just don’t think cuts it is MVS. He seems to still be playing by NCAA rules. Not impressed.

ESB is a bit of a wild card. Last year was a redshirt season. I really do hope he steps up, but hope is not a strategy.

I do strongly believe one of either ESB or MVS is stepping up this year. MVS has such immense potential if he could just learn more than how to run a go...I mean talk about athletic ability unharnessed.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I do strongly believe one of either ESB or MVS is stepping up this year. MVS has such immense potential if he could just learn more than how to run a go...I mean talk about athletic ability unharnessed.

No argument from me on MVS. Incredible athlete and fast. As you say, he needs more in his arsenal than a low percentage go route. Makes me wonder why they don’t put him in the slot now and then. Maybe with the continued emphasis on running, RPOs, and jet sweeps, they can utilize his talent.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

To be fair, Lazard was undrafted and didn't make it even on some practice squads...and arguably is our #2 if forced to pencil one in presently. Covid-19 is hurting his chances for sure, as he is a lot like ESB in the sponge mentality, and that is a big difference between making the last spot or two and not sometimes.

You can find guys that beat history, but they're the exceptions. As I said, he'll have surpassed any reasonable expectations if he's active on multiple gamedays.

 

[OldSchool101]

Seen some reference to Duke Williams. I like that reference very much. I fully agree on HRE’s comparison example. He’s recent and plays the same position and they both came out in 2016. You don’t get much closer comparison.

Compare transition data:
We know these facts for certain...

1. Duke had a CFL career reception rate of 57% with his transition year at 58%. In the NFL, Williams actually increased to 63% (Albeit on a very small snap count in the NFL). Even so, We can reasonable deduce that reception % is one stat that translates.
In comparison Begelton had a CFL career reception rate of 69%, but his final season he finished 71%.

2. Williams per catch at the CFL level was 17yd/catch
While Williams first NFL season was 14yd/catch
Begelton per catch at CFL level is 15yd/catch

3. Josh Allen’s accuracy (59% in 2019;56% career)
Aaron Rodgers (62% in 2019;65% career)

4. D Williams had 4% ST Snaps for the Bills. He barely had 1 game worth of data. That speaks clearly to me that he didn’t earn a spot on ST.
One of Begeltons’ best assets was his stellar ST in the coverage. He was a lead Gunner and consistently smothered returners on the Special Teams units. His ticket into GB won’t be WR, he’ll make it on ST alone. The other stuff (high football IQ and elite level tracking/hands is just gravy).

5. Begelton (6’1.1X200) ran a pedestrian 4.62 X 40 yard time with a solid 36” vertical.
D’haquille Williams (6’2.2”X230) ran a lethargic 4.72 X 40 (it was the 4th slowest ran by a WR). With a 30” vertical.

6. Duke Williams final CFL season he had 152 pass targets and he put up 425 yards after the catch.
Reggie Begeltons final CFL season he has 144 targets and he put up 519 yards after catch.

7. In Dukes 1st season with Auburn he punched out his OL at a bar, broke his jaw and sent him to the hospital. He was subsequently let go from Auburn
Begelton broke his arm playing in game 7 of The 2018 season for Lamar. He was pacing 1,200 yards receiving at that juncture in 2018.

I’ll let you each determine how those stats translate and Begelton will have to bring his A game to make the 53. However, if we’re going to compare him with Duke Williams we can reasonably give a slight edge to Begelton for both making an NFL Roster and anticipating better production. I think it’s very arguable that if you are going to select a WR to play in the Slot, Begelton is the better prospect. If you are going to pick a player for ST, Begelton is the better prospect. If you are going to select a player on RAS..Begelton is the better prospect. If you are going to compare from a character standpoint.. Begelton is the better prospect.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

To be fair, Lazard was undrafted and didn't make it even on some practice squads...

That's not true as Lazard was signed to the Jaguars practice squad after he was waived at roster cutdown and stayed there until thr Packers signed him late in 2018 season.

No argument from me on MVS. Incredible athlete and fast. As you say, he needs more in his arsenal than a low percentage go route. Makes me wonder why they don’t put him in the slot now and then.

MVS has huge issues running the correct route playing on the outside. That issue wouldn't lessen by him lining up in the slot.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Seen some reference to Duke Williams. I like that reference very much. I fully agree on HRE’s comparison example. He’s recent and plays the same position and they both came out in 2016. You don’t get much closer comparison.

Compare transition data:
We know these facts for certain...

1. Duke had a CFL career reception rate of 57% with his transition year at 58%. In the NFL, Williams actually increased to 63% (Albeit on a very small snap count in the NFL). Even so, We can reasonable deduce that reception % is one stat that translates.
In comparison Begelton had a CFL career reception rate of 69%, but his final season he finished 71%.

2. Williams per catch at the CFL level was 17yd/catch
While Williams first NFL season was 14yd/catch
Begelton per catch at CFL level is 15yd/catch

3. Josh Allen’s accuracy (59% in 2019;56% career)
Aaron Rodgers (62% in 2019;65% career)

4. D Williams had 4% ST Snaps for the Bills. He barely had 1 game worth of data. That speaks clearly to me that he didn’t earn a spot on ST.
One of Begeltons’ best assets was his stellar ST in the coverage. He was a lead Gunner and consistently smothered returners on the Special Teams units. His ticket into GB won’t be WR, he’ll make it on ST alone. The other stuff (high football IQ and elite level tracking/hands is just gravy).

5. Begelton (6’1.1X200) ran a pedestrian 4.62 X 40 yard time with a solid 36” vertical.
D’haquille Williams (6’2.2”X230) ran a lethargic 4.72 X 40 (it was the 4th slowest ran by a WR). With a 30” vertical.

6. Duke Williams final CFL season he had 152 pass targets and he put up 425 yards after the catch.
Reggie Begeltons final CFL season he has 144 targets and he put up 519 yards after catch.

7. In Dukes 1st season with Auburn he punched out his OL at a bar, broke his jaw and sent him to the hospital. He was subsequently let go from Auburn
Begelton broke his arm playing in game 7 of The 2018 season for Lamar. He was pacing 1,200 yards receiving at that juncture in 2018.

I’ll let you each determine how those stats translate and Begelton will have to bring his A game to make the 53. However, if we’re going to compare him with Duke Williams we can reasonably give a slight edge to Begelton for both making an NFL Roster and anticipating better production. I think it’s very arguable that if you are going to select a WR to play in the Slot, Begelton is the better prospect. If you are going to pick a player for ST, Begelton is the better prospect. If you are going to select a player on RAS..Begelton is the better prospect. If you are going to compare from a character standpoint.. Begelton is the better prospect.

Begelton ran a 4.53 40.

 

[OldSchool101]

Begelton ran a 4.53 40.

Technically you are correct if you search out he did once run that at his pro day and if you stop there on the surface and don’t compare several sources then you are correct.

http://draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=133431&DraftYear=2016

Comparing several sources, I’d say he’s probably more a high 4.5’s on any given day. Clinton Dix type speed..not necessarily slow, but not Tyler Ervin fast either. He might go neck n neck with AJ Dillon our new 250lb. RB on a good day if he eats a Snickers first.

 

[OldSchool101]

That's not true as Lazard was signed to the Jaguars practice squad after he was waived at roster cutdown and stayed there until thr Packers signed him late in 2018 season.

I thought you said he isn’t a 2nd or 3rd year player because he only gets credit for the 1 GBP season? You can’t have it both ways!
Back to 2 in 21!

 

[GreenNGold_81]

Technically you are correct if you search out he did once run that at his pro day and if you stop there on the surface and don’t compare several sources then you are correct.

http://draftscout.com/dsprofile.php?PlayerId=133431&DraftYear=2016

Comparing several sources, I’d say he’s probably more a high 4.5’s on any given day. Clinton Dix type speed..not necessarily slow, but not Tyler Ervin fast either. He might go neck n neck with AJ Dillon our new 250lb. RB on a good day if he eats a Snickers first.

Hard to say how fast he is now without watching him practice. This is his first "big" contract. He has probably had high profile trainers and a nutritionist since he signed. He's gotta make an impression fast, this is probably his big shot. I'd like to see how vets time after being in the league a few years, vs when they came out of college.

 

[tynimiller]

Hard to say how fast he is now without watching him practice. This is his first "big" contract. He has probably had high profile trainers and a nutritionist since he signed. He's gotta make an impression fast, this is probably his big shot. I'd like to see how vets time after being in the league a few years, vs when they came out of college.

I'd bet their 40 times drop...but those quick twitch or few steps are as good if not better after a while in the league.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I'd bet their 40 times drop...but those quick twitch or few steps are as good if not better after a while in the league.

Very well could - as they put on muscle to prepare for the big hits in prime time.

 

[jon]

MVS has huge trouble at the top of the route. He rarely if ever goes high to get the ball; he basket catches long balls and body catches everything else. He'll be fighting for the #5 receiver spot.

 

[Bobby D]

Based on those highlights, we should sign the QB too

 

[OldSchool101]

MVS has huge trouble at the top of the route. He rarely if ever goes high to get the ball; he basket catches long balls and body catches everything else. He'll be fighting for the #5 receiver spot.

He really hurt himself year 2 with a 46% catch rate. Granted he does get some long shots which doesn't help that %. I could see #5.

I think either one of EQ or Begelton could beat him out and he’s very lucky we didn’t draft a speed WR early. I realize this is a Begelton thread, but EQ is probably the most overlooked potential between the two options.
His 10 yard split was at 89% for his WR grouping and 94%tile for his size. As a comparison he has a 1.54X10yd which is the same as Denzel Mims, yet he’s 2 inches taller 6.475” and 10 pounds heavier than Mims 6.20”. EQ also put up 20 reps so he’s no slouch strength wise. He had great athletic measurements coming into the league and Lance Zerlein had him projected 3-4 round. EQ probably had the best long term projection coming out of college of any current Packer WR prospect aside from Funchess or Adams. He’s also been very solid and disruptive on ST coverage.

As far as what Begelton brings to the table is he has ideal size and hands for a Slot option and he’s very aggressive on ST.

MVS has got his back against the WR wall. He’ll likely make the cut because of his Raw Speed and another year in the MLF system to his advantage.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I thought you said he isn’t a 2nd or 3rd year player because he only gets credit for the 1 GBP season? You can’t have it both ways!
Back to 2 in 21!

That's not what I said at all. My point was that Lazard wasn't a Packers draft pick.

That doesn't change the fact it's not true he didn't make it on the practice squad of several other teams though.

 

[sschind]

Wouldn't you think that the best WRs from the CFL would make the jump to the NFL a bit more often if they really were that much more talented than the bottom of the roster guys. I guess to some being a #1 on a CFL team is more prestigious than a #4 or 5 on an NFL team. If I had more time I'd look into the salary differences.

 

[GleefulGary]

Wouldn't you think that the best WRs from the CFL would make the jump to the NFL a bit more often if they really were that much more talented than the bottom of the roster guys. I guess to some being a #1 on a CFL team is more prestigious than a #4 or 5 on an NFL team. If I had more time I'd look into the salary differences.

Guys in Canada get paid peanuts.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Wouldn't you think that the best WRs from the CFL would make the jump to the NFL a bit more often if they really were that much more talented than the bottom of the roster guys. I guess to some being a #1 on a CFL team is more prestigious than a #4 or 5 on an NFL team. If I had more time I'd look into the salary differences.

The salary differences are huge. The CFL team salary cap last seaon $5.7 mil CAD, or about $4 mil USD. With 45 man rosters that puts the average CFL salary at about $89,000 USD. The highest paid player makes about $750,000 per year.

Reggie Begelton's salary at the NFL rookie minimum (plus a $2,000 signing bonus) would make him among the highest paid players in the CFL. 17 weeks worth of NFL practice squad checks is well above the CFL average. I don't think it's a matter of CFL players not wanting a shot at the NFL. Not many are asked to try.

The NFL camp per diem is $1,700 per week, and if an ex-CFL player gets cut just before the start of the NFL season he'd miss about half the CFL season. He's probably pretty good by CFL standards so a job should be waiting north of the border if he gets cut.

I think there there are usually about 20 or so ex-CFLers in camps, maybe a half dozen, fresh faces each year, plus or minus. A few make the bottom of a roster or a practice squad. I want to say most don't get an NFL job. The only ex-CFL starter in the NFL right now that I know of is Duvernay-Tardif, an OG for the Chiefs. There might be one or two more.

Guys end up in the CFL because they could not land even an NFL practice squad job coming out of college, so the bar to get to the NFL is pretty high. Late bloomers, I'd say, but quite uncommon.

 

[gopkrs]

Well, don't forget Warren Moon and Doug Flutie

 

[tynimiller]

I follow most if not all of our WRs on social media...now granted many are introverts and some like Adams aren't the type to project themselves, but Reggie seems to CONSTANTLY be working. It actually mildly shocks me how active he seems to be in the gym and working with trainers...nothing is cheap at this stage and he hasn't really made much money to date. I like guy, hope he shocks us all.

 

[GreenNGold_81]

I follow most if not all of our WRs on social media...now granted many are introverts and some like Adams aren't the type to project themselves, but Reggie seems to CONSTANTLY be working. It actually mildly shocks me how active he seems to be in the gym and working with trainers...nothing is cheap at this stage and he hasn't really made much money to date. I like guy, hope he shocks us all.

Same, really hoping that Reggie impresses come training camp.