Recent Head Coaching Changes Prove It's GB's Time to Move On

[Jerellh528]

I have a good feeling this year guys. McCarthy seems re-energized. Rodgers seems more focused than ever, says he expects to be mvp this season and for us fans not to get used to packers not playing in January. Pettine is going to put emphasis on defending the pass and his pass Ds in the past have been really good, he takes pride in sound fundamentals and being aggressive.. Philbin led our offense to the most prolific it’s ever been and has more experience now seeing how other teams operate as well, can add a few nice wrinkles. We’re going to the Super Bowl guys, quote me.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

The OP looks a lot smarter now that the season has played out, and with all the offseason changes. I still think McCarthy deserves his chance, especially with the new coordinators and all. But if things don't get better, he's the only scapegoat left.

I am curious about the though process behind McCarthy being given another chance. Tennessee just fired a coach who won a playoff game because they hit the ceiling with him. We won the championship under McCarthy years ago, but we have bumped our head on the ceiling time and time again with him ever since. Issues have persisted- poor defense and offense wholly dependant on Rodgers- and changes to the coaching staff have been made only to save his job, not improve the team. Responding to issues late rather than identifying them early is a good way to stay a step behind, which is where it feels like we've been stuck for years.

 

[ls1bob]

I am really surprised at all the input that Murphy has let McCarthy have in the GM selection process. He must have felt that Thompson left McCarthy on an island and didn't listen to his input as to what the team needed. May be Murphy's way of telling McCarthy "here is your chance,show me"

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I am curious about the though process behind McCarthy being given another chance. Tennessee just fired a coach who won a playoff game because they hit the ceiling with him. We won the championship under McCarthy years ago, but we have bumped our head on the ceiling time and time again with him ever since. Issues have persisted- poor defense and offense wholly dependant on Rodgers- and changes to the coaching staff have been made only to save his job, not improve the team. Responding to issues late rather than identifying them early is a good way to stay a step behind, which is where it feels like we've been stuck for years.

I think you answered your own question with that bolded statement. If you are in the school of thought that the Packers haven't won it all since 2010 strictly because MM is a terrible coach, nothing I say will change your mind. Yet, except for last year when AR got injured, the Packers have been in the conversation and relevant almost every year under MM. There are some people that can point to other reasons why the team hasn't made it back to the SB and they don't have MM at the top of that list, which is probably the Packers FO's rationale for why MM is still in GB.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

I think you answered your own question with that bolded statement. If you are in the school of thought that the Packers haven't won it all since 2010 strictly because MM is a terrible coach, nothing I say will change your mind. Yet, except for last year when AR got injured, the Packers have been in the conversation and relevant almost every year under MM. There are some people that can point to other reasons why the team hasn't made it back to the SB and they don't have MM at the top of that list, which is probably the Packers FO's rationale for why MM is still in GB.

McCarthy has been a pretty successful HC, and if he were shown the door, I don't think he'd be out in the cold for long.

We'll see how it goes this season. I'm optimistic.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I think you answered your own question with that bolded statement. If you are in the school of thought that the Packers haven't won it all since 2010 strictly because MM is a terrible coach, nothing I say will change your mind. Yet, except for last year when AR got injured, the Packers have been in the conversation and relevant almost every year under MM. There are some people that can point to other reasons why the team hasn't made it back to the SB and they don't have MM at the top of that list, which is probably the Packers FO's rationale for why MM is still in GB.

Instead of making excuses, Philadelphia won a SB with 3 of their best players out. Too bad our management would prefer to do the former rather than hire someone who can elevate the talent they are given.

 

[GleefulGary]

Instead of making excuses, Philadelphia won a SB with 3 of their best players out. Too bad our management would prefer to do the former rather than hire someone who can elevate the talent they are given.

If only it were actually this simple.

 

[BrokenArrow]

Instead of making excuses, Philadelphia won a SB with 3 of their best players out. Too bad our management would prefer to do the former rather than hire someone who can elevate the talent they are given.

The most important position on any team is QB. Philadelphia had two starting caliber QBs.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

If only it were actually this simple.

There is middle ground between winning the SB and being terrible with the starting QB out. McCarthy has proven twice now that without Rodgers, the team is on the same level as teams who fire their coaches and look for better options. I don't see why we should be different just because he wins some games with the best player in the league at QB.

The most important position on any team is QB. Philadelphia had two starting caliber QBs.

I have a hard time believing that Foles would have put up 38 on the Vikings with our offense. McCarthy can't even design a offense good enough for Rodgers to accomplish that.

 

[pacmaniac]

Rodgers seems more focused than ever, says he expects to be mvp this season and for us fans not to get used to packers not playing in January.

But will the Packers ever play in February again?

 

[BrokenArrow]

I have a hard time believing that Foles would have put up 38 on the Vikings with our offense. McCarthy can't even design a offense good enough for Rodgers to accomplish that.

He didn't put up 38 points on them with their offense either.

 

[RepStar15]

Guys we can’t forget the Patriots didn’t win a Super Bowl for 10 years with B.B. and Brady from 2005-2015. And every time they did win a super bowl they had a top 10 defense. In the past 8 years, we haven’t had the defense and I think that reflects mostly on Dom Capers. We made some serious moves this year, let’s let that set in and reevaluate what happens next year. I’m thrilled with the changes we made to the coaching staff and the front office. Let’s give it a chance before we start chanting for McCartheys head right this second. Renember, there really are not many other good options out there.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

Guys we can’t forget the Patriots didn’t win a Super Bowl for 10 years with B.B. and Brady from 2005-2015. And every time they did win a super bowl they had a top 10 defense. In the past 8 years, we haven’t had the defense and I think that reflects mostly on Dom Capers. We made some serious moves this year, let’s let that set in and reevaluate what happens next year. I’m thrilled with the changes we made to the coaching staff and the front office. Let’s give it a chance before we start chanting for McCartheys head right this second. Renember, there really are not many other good options out there.

We also saw the team without their starting QB, and they were still good. We, however, are absolutely terrible. We see systems where lesser QBs look great and put up monster stats, and I just envision such offenses with a QB like Rodgers. I just long for the day where he doesn't doesn't make plays by having to dance around and hope that someone eventually gets open, but is able to stand back confidently knowing that someone will be due to a good play design. Just because we want to be optimistic doesn't mean we can't face the truth that McCarthy isn't cutting it.

 

[RepStar15]

We also saw the team without their starting QB, and they were still good. We, however, are absolutely terrible. We see systems where lesser QBs look great and put up monster stats, and I just envision such offenses with a QB like Rodgers. I just long for the day where he doesn't doesn't make plays by having to dance around and hope that someone eventually gets open, but is able to stand back confidently knowing that someone will be due to a good play design. Just because we want to be optimistic doesn't mean we can't face the truth that McCarthy isn't cutting it.[/

How can you know that right now? We could have a top 10 defense and win a super bowl next year for all we know. You can’t speculate that we will or we won’t at this point. The team made MASSIVE coaching changes. It’s not like we replaced a WR coach or something, we essentially cleaned house.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

We also saw the team without their starting QB, and they were still good. We, however, are absolutely terrible. We see systems where lesser QBs look great and put up monster stats, and I just envision such offenses with a QB like Rodgers. I just long for the day where he doesn't doesn't make plays by having to dance around and hope that someone eventually gets open, but is able to stand back confidently knowing that someone will be due to a good play design. Just because we want to be optimistic doesn't mean we can't face the truth that McCarthy isn't cutting it.

When I see people write about how bad the Packers offense was once Rodgers went down, I can't help but to ask; "How good would the Vikings or Eagles have been had Hundley been their QB?" or "How good would the Packers offense had been with either Foles or Keenum at QB?"

There may not have been the substantial drop-off that the Packers saw, because Rodgers is THAT good, whereas Wentz and Bradford weren't that much better than Foles or Keenum. However, I think both Foles and Keenum are a lot better than Hundley, so of course any offense is going to suffer if Hundley is running it. The loss of Rodgers may have proved that the Packers rely on him to keep the chains moving, score points and be a top ranked offense, but I think people are making too big of a jump when saying this proved just how bad MM and the Packer offense really was. Should they improve the offense? Of course they should, getting Rodgers back is one big step in that direction and they are still going to need a solid TE and deeper at the OL and WR positions, but they aren't the trainwreck on offense that Hundley made them appear to be.

 

[swhitset]

When I see people write about how bad the Packers offense was once Rodgers went down, I can't help but to ask; "How good would the Vikings or Eagles have been had Hundley been their QB?" or "How good would the Packers offense had been with either Foles or Keenum at QB?"

There may not have been the substantial drop-off that the Packers saw, because Rodgers is THAT good, whereas Wentz and Bradford weren't that much better than Foles or Keenum. However, I think both Foles and Keenum are a lot better than Hundley, so of course any offense is going to suffer if Hundley is running it. The loss of Rodgers may have proved that the Packers rely on him to keep the chains moving, score points and be a top ranked offense, but I think people are making too big of a jump when saying this proved just how bad MM and the Packer offense really was. Should they improve the offense? Of course they should, getting Rodgers back is one big step in that direction and they are still going to need a solid TE and deeper at the OL and WR positions, but they aren't the trainwreck on offense that Hundley made them appear to be.

These facts are too logical for the McCarthy haters to swallow .... they will continue to chant their poor statistical analysis of his record without Rodgers in an ignorant attempt to prove their dislike for him regardless of any sound logical basis. I'm sure this will get a response... but I will not be answering it... I'm done with that argument.

That being said... I do expect to see improvement on the defense and a return to the powerful offense we have had with Rodgers. Getting another backup QB would be nice too lol

 

[Patriotplayer90]

These facts are too logical for the McCarthy haters to swallow .... they will continue to chant their poor statistical analysis of his record without Rodgers in an ignorant attempt to prove their dislike for him regardless of any sound logical basis. I'm sure this will get a response... but I will not be answering it... I'm done with that argument.

That being said... I do expect to see improvement on the defense and a return to the powerful offense we have had with Rodgers. Getting another backup QB would be nice too lol

Would you have made the claim that Keenum was much better than Hundley based on his performance prior to this season? No, because he played poorly and had a bad record. Both he and Foles looked just like Hundley when they were with Jeff Fisher. The only facts are that both QBs were terrible in STL, and improved drastically with better coaches. Are you really claiming the same couldn't apply to Hundley, or is it just a matter of fact that he's such an awful QB that he'd succeed nowhere?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Would you have made the claim that Keenum was much better than Hundley based on his performance prior to this season? No, because he played poorly and had a bad record. Both he and Foles looked just like Hundley when they were with Jeff Fisher. The only facts are that both QBs were terrible in STL, and improved drastically with better coaches. Are you really claiming the same couldn't apply to Hundley, or is it just a matter of fact that he's such an awful QB that he'd succeed nowhere?

What you aren't taking into consideration here is experience, whether it is playing good or bad. The Packers decided Hundley was their #2 guy based on practice and preseason, obviously a mistake on their part. Both the Vikings and the Eagles chose backup QB's that had a hell of a lot more experience in real NFL games. Both teams had film on these guys and could begin to work with them on improving their skills during live action. Blame Brett Hundley for the Packers crappy season in 2017, but in reality, TT and the Packers should all share most of that blame for thinking he was ready to play 11 games as the starter.

For the record, I think Hundley will be a better QB in 2018 than he showed in 2017. As long as he and his coaches now work on what he needs to improve upon in live action. Is he good enough to be the Packers #2? I guess that is anyone's guess at this point but I would prefer to not have to find out.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

What you aren't taking into consideration here is experience, whether it is playing good or bad. The Packers decided Hundley was their #2 guy based on practice and preseason, obviously a mistake on their part. Both the Vikings and the Eagles chose backup QB's that had a hell of a lot more experience in real NFL games. Both teams had film on these guys and could begin to work with them on improving their skills during live action. Blame Brett Hundley for the Packers crappy season in 2017, but in reality, TT and the Packers should all share most of that blame for thinking he was ready to play 11 games as the starter.

For the record, I think Hundley will be a better QB in 2018 than he showed in 2017. As long as he and his coaches now work on what he needs to improve upon in live action. Is he good enough to be the Packers #2? I guess that is anyone's guess at this point but I would prefer to not have to find out.

In 2015, when we were searching for explanations as to why the offense was struggling, there were articles published showing still shots and examples of some poorly designed plays. James Jones stated that he had longed to play for the Saints due to their well designed plays and route concepts. McCarthy may not be the worst OC and play designer in the world,but there's not much to support him being very good either, other than the performance of the offense with Rodgers at the helm.

Much of the blame goes to the defense,but who decided to keep that DC when it was so obvious that he needed to be replaced? The lack of foresight and his stubbornness is indicative of his ability as a coach, and both of those are terrible qualities to have. We could have two All Pro players in an area where we so desperately need them if we had a coach who knew how to unlock their potential while they were here. Those are grounds for termination as far as I'm concerned.

Those teams had tape on those QBs, but Hundley was with McCarthy for his third year. He knew what he was and wasn't good at, and should have been able to put him in a position to succeed. He wasn't consistently terrible as much as he was terribly inconsistent. Much like those other two QBs prior to this season. The difference is, their coaches knew how to mask their deficiencies and make the most of their talents. That's the true difference between these QBs.

 

[sschind]

McCarthy has been a pretty successful HC, and if he were shown the door, I don't think he'd be out in the cold for long.

We'll see how it goes this season. I'm optimistic.

I have a feeling the Robert Irsay would love to see MM fired tomorrow and if he was I wouldn't be surprised to see another coach fired within minutes of the news hitting the wire.

 

[Mavster]

Hundley was with MM for what, 3 full seasons? There are no excuses, our coaching staff and or talent evaluation failed horribly there. Rodgers is obviously the cog that makes everything go. Without him we look like a floundering franchise competing for a top 5 pick. Oddly enough I'm optimistic for 2018 season mostly due to Capers finally being shown the door. I absolutely refuse to believe that we could perform any worse under Pettine. Just imagine what the defense would have looked like if we faced Philly in the playoffs. We'd see Foles rack up 60 yards receiving against Dom lol

 

[Half Empty]

Guys we can’t forget the Patriots didn’t win a Super Bowl for 10 years with B.B. and Brady from 2005-2015. And every time they did win a super bowl they had a top 10 defense. In the past 8 years, we haven’t had the defense and I think that reflects mostly on Dom Capers. We made some serious moves this year, let’s let that set in and reevaluate what happens next year. I’m thrilled with the changes we made to the coaching staff and the front office. Let’s give it a chance before we start chanting for McCartheys head right this second. Renember, there really are not many other good options out there.

Again, isn't picking the right DC a job for the HC?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Again, isn't picking the right DC a job for the HC?

I would say "Yes". Hanging on to Dom Capers for as long as he did, could be my biggest black mark on MM to date. However, maybe under Pettine we will see that the problem wasn't so much Dom Capers, but the talent that TT delivered him. If that ends up being the case, than the job Capers did and MM retaining him, doesn't look so bad.

 

[Veretax]

Losing Rogers for most of the year hurts. Very few teams recover from losing their long term stud elite starting Quarterback. In fact I can count on one hand the number of Back up lead teams that made a playoff and won a game there. One of those was the Jeff Hostetler lead NY GIants. OF course Phily this year is also an example. I've not been able to follow the packers quite as much since relocating to Virginia, but from what I've seen injuries and depth have been a concern. That's not necessarily a coaching issue, that's a talent evaluation issue for sure. Isn't that why Thompson was reassigned/promoted?

(BTW, I'm getting my love for this franchise back, especially since my first favorite team shows no signs of getting it any time soon. When my son Got Madden for christmas, I let him choose them, and chose Green Bay to do Franchise with. Man I guess I'll always have Madden.)

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I would say "Yes". Hanging on to Dom Capers for as long as he did, could be my biggest black mark on MM to date. However, maybe under Pettine we will see that the problem wasn't so much Dom Capers, but the talent that TT delivered him. If that ends up being the case, than the job Capers did and MM retaining him, doesn't look so bad.

It's pretty clear already that Dom did a terrible job. Two All-Pros walked away for pennies because our coach didn't know how to use them. And the defense was just awful, especially in crucial moments. McCarthy should have been forced to make a change years ago. It sure would be nice to have an aggressive FO that actually wants to win a championship.