Raji Redux

[Deleted member 6794]

What is the cap impact of signing a player you pretty much KNOW is going to be suspended for 25% of the season?

The base salary of a player doesn't count against the cap during a suspension, it dorsn't have any influence on a prorated signing bonus though.

 

[AKCheese]

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B.J. Raji, at 6-foot-2 and 337 pounds, will be a huge loss for the Packers this season. When Raji is on the field since becoming a full-time starter in 2010, the Packers defense holds teams to a QBR below 40. With him off the field, Green Bay allows nearly a yard more per play in comparison.

Mike McCarthy also was enthusiastic and said Raji had had his best training camp of his career?

We're they happy they got him for very little garaunteed money? I'm sure they were! But they also were willing (and did), give him $4M in salary

I love getting things for a lower price than I had thought I would have to spend, but if it's not something I WANT, it's no bargain. The Packers wanted Raji in 2014, or do you think they just gave him $500k garaunteed and another $3.5M in salary out of charity??

Clearly the professionals on the Packer staff did not buy Raji being a slacker, or they wouldn't allow him in the locker room, much less hand him millions of dollars

 

[adambr2]

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B.J. Raji, at 6-foot-2 and 337 pounds, will be a huge loss for the Packers this season. When Raji is on the field since becoming a full-time starter in 2010, the Packers defense holds teams to a QBR below 40. With him off the field, Green Bay allows nearly a yard more per play in comparison.

Mike McCarthy also was enthusiastic and said Raji had had his best training camp of his career?

We're they happy they got him for very little garaunteed money? I'm sure they were! But they also were willing (and did), give him $4M in salary

I love getting things for a lower price than I had thought I would have to spend, but if it's not something I WANT, it's no bargain. The Packers wanted Raji in 2014, or do you think they just gave him $500k garaunteed and another $3.5M in salary out of charity??

Clearly the professionals on the Packer staff did not buy Raji being a slacker, or they wouldn't allow him in the locker room, much less hand him millions of dollars

Good grief. You really just don't get it, or don't want to get it.

#1 - He turned out not to be a huge loss. We were much better with Guion in 2014 than with Raji and Pickett in 2013. That is a fact.

#2 - You have a complete inability to put that 4M figure in perspective. You just see 4M and say, 'Wow, they paid Raji 4M last year! ' Yeah, they did. They also offered him a multi-year deal for 8M a year with 20M guaranteed mere months before he signed for 4M. It's the most drastic dropoff in value for any player in such a short period that you'll ever see. Why? Because his 2013 second half was THAT atrocious, and the fact that the 8M offer was rescinded and Raji drew little interest elsewhere reflected just how atrocious.

3 - You couldn't be more wrong that they wouldn't let Raji anywhere near the locker room if they thought he slacked in 2013. Guys are brought back on short prove it deals all the time bases on raw talent and the hopes that they can cash in on that raw talent. The Packers took a chance on Raji in spite of 2013 because he does have raw talent. I'm not in denial that Raji has talent, the way you are in denial about his performance and effort in 2013.

#4 - I will ask you one more time, and please attempt to come up with a better explanation than 'out of position', why was Raji so atrocious in 2013, if the effort was indeed there? Why did his performance drop off so drastically after the team lost Aaron Rodgers to the collarbone injury?

As others have pointed out but you continue to ignore, Raji's motor and effort have at times been a known issue since his college days. You're the only one still off in the corner by yourself saying, 'No, I'm sure he was trying his hardest!'

 

[AKCheese]

So Aaron Rodgers breaking his collarbone suddenly led to Raji giving no effort .....ahhhhhhh now I get it .... Yet Packer coaches kept playing him....despite him giving no effort (why would they do that? I'm confused why you would put a guy out on the field who isn't trying???)....anyhow.....after all that they gave him 4 times as much money as they HAD to give him....because they wanted him...because he didn't try very hard...ok now I understand you're whole point if view.....seems kind of crazy, but at least you've clarified....Aaron Rodgers breaking his collarbone was the key...got it!!

 

[HardRightEdge]

I love getting things for a lower price than I had thought I would have to spend, but if it's not something I WANT, it's no bargain.

http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/628472794/overview/

 

[adambr2]

So Aaron Rodgers breaking his collarbone suddenly led to Raji giving no effort .....ahhhhhhh now I get it .... Yet Packer coaches kept playing him....despite him giving no effort (why would they do that? I'm confused why you would put a guy out on the field who isn't trying???)....anyhow.....after all that they gave him 4 times as much money as they HAD to give him....because they wanted him...because he didn't try very hard...ok now I understand you're whole point if view.....seems kind of crazy, but at least you've clarified....Aaron Rodgers breaking his collarbone was the key...got it!!

And shocking, he once again dodges the question above to chase a red herring.

Yet Packer coaches kept playing him....despite him giving no effort (why would they do that? I'm confused why you would put a guy out on the field who isn't trying???)

Even though you avoid it every time I ask a hard question about Raji, I'll answer yours:
1) They had no better options on the bench
2) He has a long leash to get it together because of his long tenure with the team
3) They were hoping he'd pull his head out of his rear and start getting it together based on the fact that he's shown in the past that he can play better.

after all that they gave him 4 times as much money as they HAD to give him.

I'm pretty sure if they could have HAD him for $1M, they would have. I don't think Ted Thompson is in the business of just donating $3M. He was paid $4M because that was his market. You still haven't addressed the fact that he went from a market of turning down $8M/yr $20M guaranteed to a 1 year/$4M deal in a matter of months (shocking).

ok now I understand you're whole point if view

58 years old, ran his own business, but still hasn't learned the proper use of "your" and "you're". (shocking)

ahhhhhhh now I get it

No..you don't. You definitely don't.

 

[TJV]

Ignorance (not being aware) of facts is one thing, ignoring them is another and AKCheese is definitely in the latter category. Again, and for the last time for me: The Packers took an offer guaranteeing Raji about $20M off the table during the 2013 season. They ended up guaranteeing him just $500K (relative peanuts in the NFL, particularly compared to $20M). And here's another important fact: No other team in the league offered him more money - after three days of checking the market he came back the Packers with his "tail between his legs”. (from the article already linked) "It was probably a slight bit of humility that had to be accepted," an NFL personnel director said Tuesday night. "That's what the market was telling him he was worth. … A personnel man for another club had a conversation last week with one of Raji's representatives. "They said we could have him for 5 ($5 million per year)," said the executive. "Like, oh gee, thanks. First of all, he (stinks)."

Why, during the 2013 season did the Packers reduce the guaranteed money they were offering Raji by 97.5%? Why did no other team in the league offer him more?

You either:1) Are related to Raji or have a blinding loyalty to him for some other reason, or 2) Have trouble applying common sense to a set of facts, or 3) Like some casual fans, only watch the ball when you watch the Packers. Most likely a combination of the three.

 

[HardRightEdge]

They ended up guaranteeing him just $500K.

I don't think the significance of than number can be understated. The Packers had a clear and present exit strategy if he did not show up. If he played in camp the way he did in 2013, I doubt he would have made the 53 man roster.

The Incredible Shrinking Neal got 2 years / $8 mil with $2.5 mil guaranteed to play a utility role.

Crosby, an average NFL placekicker, got $800,000 guaranteed in his last deal.

Goode, the long snapper, got a $325,000 guarantee in his last deal. And in the obscure and arcane world of long snappers, Goode is generally regarded as average.

That should be some indication of his value in the eyes of the Packer brain trust.

 

[AKCheese]

I apologize for misusing you're and your, having 3 college degrees in addition to being 58 and a retired business owner I definitely know the proper useage. Not sure if it was carelessness or spell checker gone wild that got me, could be the snow glare posting outside? but you got me! Only thing you've gotten correct yet but you get big time points for Internet spelling. I have to admit I don't pay much attention to it, pretty darn busy these days!! If you want to keep pushing your thesis that Raji is a lazy bum who puts forth no effort, yet the Packers keep handing him millions, you're certainly entitled, (as ridiculous as your theory is). Not sure why you're hung up on me being 58 and retired. prolly woulda really been ticked when I was 42 and retired LOL

 

[AKCheese]

Ignorance (not being aware) of facts is one thing, ignoring them is another and AKCheese is definitely in the latter category. Again, and for the last time for me: The Packers took an offer guaranteeing Raji about $20M off the table during the 2013 season. They ended up guaranteeing him just $500K (relative peanuts in the NFL, particularly compared to $20M). And here's another important fact: No other team in the league offered him more money - after three days of checking the market he came back the Packers with his "tail between his legs”. (from the article already linked) "It was probably a slight bit of humility that had to be accepted," an NFL personnel director said Tuesday night. "That's what the market was telling him he was worth. … A personnel man for another club had a conversation last week with one of Raji's representatives. "They said we could have him for 5 ($5 million per year)," said the executive. "Like, oh gee, thanks. First of all, he (stinks)."

Why, during the 2013 season did the Packers reduce the guaranteed money they were offering Raji by 97.5%? Why did no other team in the league offer him more?

You either:1) Are related to Raji or have a blinding loyalty to him for some other reason, or 2) Have trouble applying common sense to a set of facts, or 3) Like some casual fans, only watch the ball when you watch the Packers. Most likely a combination of the three.

No, like I said a long time ago, I just have a hard time with smug arrogant bar flies sitting around pretending to somehow be able to ascertain the level of effort an athlete is putting out. I had the good fortune to play the game much longer than most. You don't find too many players calling out other players for a lack of effort because they know that's about the worst criticism you can make.(and its seldom true). It shouldn't be thrown around lightly but it often is, by people who have no idea what they're talking about. BTW when you hear some ****** talking about a guys "motor", it's a pretty huge red flag that he hasnt a clue. Peace out!

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Gentlemen, while this is an interesting discussion, please lets keep the personal snipes out of the debate .

 

[adambr2]

I apologize for misusing you're and your, having 3 college degrees in addition to being 58 and a retired business owner I definitely know the proper useage. Not sure if it was carelessness or spell checker gone wild that got me, could be the snow glare posting outside? but you got me! Only thing you've gotten correct yet but you get big time points for Internet spelling. I have to admit I don't pay much attention to it, pretty darn busy these days!! If you want to keep pushing your thesis that Raji is a lazy bum who puts forth no effort, yet the Packers keep handing him millions, you're certainly entitled, (as ridiculous as your theory is). Not sure why you're hung up on me being 58 and retired. prolly woulda really been ticked when I was 42 and retired LOL

I'm not ticked about it at all. I'm happy for you on that if you indeed were able to get out of the rat race early and spend more time with your family. I'm flabbergasted that somebody with 3 college degrees completely lacks any ability to listen to any logic at all or answer anyone's questions. Captain, ThxJack, HRE, Ogsponge, Mondio, Paul, myself, and others have all individually tried to make legitimate points to you logically, while you sit there insisting that you are right, and everyone else is wrong. Instead of trying to have a legitimate discussion, you throw around personal insults "get a life", "******", "smug arrogant barflies", (I haven't been to a bar for something other than dinner in about 3 years, and the only poster in this entire thread that has been reeking of arrogance with every post has been yourself).

Since you're clearly an extremely stubborn individual who spends more time repeatedly tooting his own horn about his individual accomplishments rather than really looking to have an actual discussion about the subject matter, and you're just going to continue to insult and berate anyone who tries to logically present evidence that contradicts your viewpoint, there is really no point in continuing this discussion with you.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

No, like I said a long time ago, I just have a hard time with smug arrogant bar flies sitting around pretending to somehow be able to ascertain the level of effort an athlete is putting out. I had the good fortune to play the game much longer than most. You don't find too many players calling out other players for a lack of effort because they know that's about the worst criticism you can make.(and its seldom true). It shouldn't be thrown around lightly but it often is, by people who have no idea what they're talking about. BTW when you hear some ****** talking about a guys "motor", it's a pretty huge red flag that he hasnt a clue. Peace out!

You haven't come up with a single explanation to why Raji was absolutely terrible in 2013 though.

Please just answer this one simple question: If it wasn't because of a lack of effort why was Raji one of the worst defensive lineman in the entire league while playing for a new contract???

If you for some reason think he was adequate in 2013 though then there's really no reason to talk to you anymore.

 

[adambr2]

Please just answer this one simple question

Good luck.

 

[GoPGo]

Are you referring to Raji? Because I think plenty are willing to give him a shot at redemption; most just don't trust him enough to want him as the team's starting NT heading into the season.

I don't think anyone said anything about christening him the starting NT. That has to be earned and if he earns it, so be it.

 

[Clev44]

Personally, I think raji is a must sign. I think he is much more productive at the NT position, which he was actually drafted for and was unhappy playing out of position at the DE spot. I think he will be rejuvenated. By all accounts, he was playing like his old self in training camp before injuring his biceps.

 

[Carl]

Good grief. You really just don't get it, or don't want to get it.

#1 - He turned out not to be a huge loss. We were much better with Guion in 2014 than with Raji and Pickett in 2013. That is a fact.

#2 - You have a complete inability to put that 4M figure in perspective. You just see 4M and say, 'Wow, they paid Raji 4M last year! ' Yeah, they did. They also offered him a multi-year deal for 8M a year with 20M guaranteed mere months before he signed for 4M. It's the most drastic dropoff in value for any player in such a short period that you'll ever see. Why? Because his 2013 second half was THAT atrocious, and the fact that the 8M offer was rescinded and Raji drew little interest elsewhere reflected just how atrocious.

3 - You couldn't be more wrong that they wouldn't let Raji anywhere near the locker room if they thought he slacked in 2013. Guys are brought back on short prove it deals all the time bases on raw talent and the hopes that they can cash in on that raw talent. The Packers took a chance on Raji in spite of 2013 because he does have raw talent. I'm not in denial that Raji has talent, the way you are in denial about his performance and effort in 2013.

#4 - I will ask you one more time, and please attempt to come up with a better explanation than 'out of position', why was Raji so atrocious in 2013, if the effort was indeed there? Why did his performance drop off so drastically after the team lost Aaron Rodgers to the collarbone injury?

As others have pointed out but you continue to ignore, Raji's motor and effort have at times been a known issue since his college days. You're the only one still off in the corner by yourself saying, 'No, I'm sure he was trying his hardest!'

The entire defense dropped off drastically after Rodgers went down, not just Raji.

Doesn't make sense to single him out in an attempt to make your point.

 

[adambr2]

The entire defense dropped off drastically after Rodgers went down, not just Raji.

Doesn't make sense to single him out in an attempt to make your point.

Is this a thread about the 2013 Packers defense, Carl? Or a thread about BJ Raji?

I never denied that some of the rest of the defense also had issues after Rodgers went down (some, not all), but that has nothing to do with discussion on Raji's effort level during that time.

Also, let's see if there is any basis in fact to what you are saying.

PFF Ranking of Packers 2013 starters, First half 2013, Second half 2013, differential:

Raji: -4.7, -20.2, difference of - 15.5
Pickett: +1.5, -8.3, difference of -9.8
D. Jones: -5.4, -2.3, difference of +3.1
Matthews: +0.7, 0, difference of -0.7
Perry: +2.9, -5.3, difference of -8.2
Hawk: -2.6, -6.3, difference of -3.7
B. Jones: +5, -9.1, difference of -14.1
Shields: -1.4, +2.2, difference of +3.6
T. Williams: +0.3, +6.6, difference of +6.3
Burnett: +3.4, -6.6, difference of -10
MD Jennings: -0.4, -4.6, difference of -4.2

PFF is just one measurement, but according to them, literally no one else on the defense was even half as bad as Raji in the second half of 2013. The only one who came close to as big of a crash from 1st half to 2nd was Brad Jones. If you want to compare Raji to Brad Jones, have at it.

 

[PackerDNA]

For me, the bottom line with Raji is outside of one season, and the potential that goes with being a #9 overall pick, there's been nothing to get excited about. Couple that with missing an entire season due to a serious injury- the kind that can re occur- and I'm not interested in bringing him back.
I think he will be back though, because of the need at the position and lack of options to fix it. IMO, he'll be back on a "what the hell, we've got nothing to lose" deal.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I don't think anyone said anything about christening him the starting NT. That has to be earned and if he earns it, so be it.

I never said he should be given the starting job. I was replying to someone asking about the Raji angst. Pretty sure everyone is fine with him as a low priced guy with potential. I don't think most are looking forward to him being the team's plan at NT. Because right now if they re-sign Raji, you'd have to assume he's the team's plan at NT since he'd be the only NT on the roster.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Time to lock this up.