Packers V Bills Game Thread: Home is NOT on the Range Edition

[Heyjoe4]

So what is the preferred OL lineup
Bahktiari, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Tom/FA???

I'm assuming Yosh backs up Bahktiari

We definitely need another WR, Sammy has been a disappointment. Jeudy would be REALLY nice to pair with Doubs and Toure

Interesting - Jeudy, Doubs, and Toure. Toure certainly showed some spark last night. Doubs is figuring out how to catch balls that aren't at the numbers. That TD reception was special. Anyway I like your WR lineup. And it would be that much better with a healthy Cobb. I think Lazard is forever stuck as a very good #3, just injured too much. Watson looks terrible, when he's healthy that is.......

It could be Jeudy, or Cooks (although the Pack probably can't afford him) and I'd be happy. But they also need an OL to protect #12. Anyway, among all the dismal feelings here today (and justified), thanks for a little optimism.

3-5 is pretty dismal. But I don't want them to give up yet. If Gluten hadn't ****** up and traded up for Love (sitting on the bench with a clipboard), it could be Tee Higgins' third year. Well, that thinking won't help. Go get Jeudy.

 

[Pkrjones]

You both do realize picking up his 5th year option already cutting him is not a smart option? Replacing him or seeing if someone can play just as bad or slightly better I am all for - Savage has been worthless on far too many plays....however we have to pay him next year regardless. He will cost us $7,901,000 to the 2023 cap whether we cut him by noon today, or next year.

Agreed. Gute had to make that decision by May 2, 2022, and probably did so hesitantly. $7.9Mil 5th year option would make Savage the 24th highest paid Safety as of right now. He'd also be the 4th youngest Safety on that top-24 list so I'm guessing Gute "rolled the dice" that Savage's '21 down-year was an anomaly and that he'd turn things around in '22. In hindsight not the right move, but can't really fault Gute for taking a chance on a young guy who flashed skills & had a down-year under a new defensive coordinator.

 

[David Ciembronowicz]

Packers fans need to understand this is a pretty bad offensive football team; a patchwork offensive line that maybe has 1 really good player (and that is NOT the guy who got $60+ Million), the rest are consistently getting pushed around, gone around and fail to execute. This is a WR group that is beaten up and are missing a #1 and #2 level player compared to the top teams in this league. The TE group is OK, nothing to write home about. A. Jones is THE best player on the offense, Dillon is ok but makes too many mistakes in execution and frankly has been not up to last years season. Rodgers, well when your line does not block, when you have a thumb injury, when you are older and can't seem to get out of the pocket quick enough and the Defense knows it- you are in trouble as he has been at times for all 8 games this season. This is frankly on management for not getting players who actually can make a difference on Offense. On Defense, they have played good in general but also have let downs and are undisciplined at times that results in huge plays and points. Their stats may be good in terms of ranking but when you are 3-5 and have given up points that you should not, that is the sign of a fair at best defense. Management has failed the team, the fans by frankly being stubborn and not getting the players who would make a difference. They won 2 games by a total of 5 points that could/should have been losses. They lost the last 4 and 3 of them were not that close. Final season IMO 7-10, wonder who gets the "ax", the GM would be first in my list and some of the coaches next up- then get some linemen that can block and WR that can get open.... Rodgers has to wonder why he ever came back.

 

[tynimiller]

Packers fans need to understand this is a pretty bad offensive football team; a patchwork offensive line that maybe has 1 really good player (and that is NOT the guy who got $60+ Million), the rest are consistently getting pushed around, gone around and fail to execute. This is a WR group that is beaten up and are missing a #1 and #2 level player compared to the top teams in this league. The TE group is OK, nothing to write home about. A. Jones is THE best player on the offense, Dillon is ok but makes too many mistakes in execution and frankly has been not up to last years season. Rodgers, well when your line does not block, when you have a thumb injury, when you are older and can't seem to get out of the pocket quick enough and the Defense knows it- you are in trouble as he has been at times for all 8 games this season. This is frankly on management for not getting players who actually can make a difference on Offense. On Defense, they have played good in general but also have let downs and are undisciplined at times that results in huge plays and points. Their stats may be good in terms of ranking but when you are 3-5 and have given up points that you should not, that is the sign of a fair at best defense. Management has failed the team, the fans by frankly being stubborn and not getting the players who would make a difference. They won 2 games by a total of 5 points that could/should have been losses. They lost the last 4 and 3 of them were not that close. Final season IMO 7-10, wonder who gets the "ax", the GM would be first in my list and some of the coaches next up- then get some linemen that can block and WR that can get open.... Rodgers has to wonder why he ever came back.

That bad offensive football team just outproduced one of the most lethal, put up nearly 200 yards rushing against what was the #1 run defense in the league....there is no way someone can argue we are a good offensive team but you sound like you're describing a team unable to do anything or is worthless and should most likely be winless.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Packers fans need to understand this is a pretty bad offensive football team; a patchwork offensive line that maybe has 1 really good player (and that is NOT the guy who got $60+ Million), the rest are consistently getting pushed around, gone around and fail to execute. This is a WR group that is beaten up and are missing a #1 and #2 level player compared to the top teams in this league. The TE group is OK, nothing to write home about. A. Jones is THE best player on the offense, Dillon is ok but makes too many mistakes in execution and frankly has been not up to last years season. Rodgers, well when your line does not block, when you have a thumb injury, when you are older and can't seem to get out of the pocket quick enough and the Defense knows it- you are in trouble as he has been at times for all 8 games this season. This is frankly on management for not getting players who actually can make a difference on Offense. On Defense, they have played good in general but also have let downs and are undisciplined at times that results in huge plays and points. Their stats may be good in terms of ranking but when you are 3-5 and have given up points that you should not, that is the sign of a fair at best defense. Management has failed the team, the fans by frankly being stubborn and not getting the players who would make a difference. They won 2 games by a total of 5 points that could/should have been losses. They lost the last 4 and 3 of them were not that close. Final season IMO 7-10, wonder who gets the "ax", the GM would be first in my list and some of the coaches next up- then get some linemen that can block and WR that can get open.... Rodgers has to wonder why he ever came back.

Good points, and I think most Packer fans by now realize all of this to be true. I'd like to see a new president with some serious NFL experience, and then let that person decide what to do about GM, and then let the GM decide what to do about coaching. Murphy is the weakest president the Packers have had in a long time - well since Bob Harlan, who took his job seriously.

What is stunning is the speed of the collapse. But going back over your comments, the collapse makes sense. There are some lean years coming and I'm old enough to know what that feels like. It's not good.

 

[Schultz]

Here are the players I would trade to assemble draft picks: Savage, Watson, Lazard, Lowry, Newman, Preston Smith, Tonyan, Love, and Bakhtiari but nobody would take him with his bad knee and huge salary.

No one will take half of the guys you have listed.

 

[tynimiller]

No one will take half of the guys you have listed.

Eh...I'd argue against that. We moved players like Trevor Davis before...

Preston is probably the one with the highest return value, but start moving guys for early or late Day 3s and Lazard, Lowry, Tonyan all easily IMO would have interest for sure.

Savage and Bakh simply salary wise aren't moveable at the moment for it to make sense...unless someone was drunk and gave you insanely high draft pick for Bakh to make us eat a TON of money....

Newman is probably the only guy on the list that is tradeable from a money perspective that you'd struggle to find a partner with seeing as how he hasn't held onto his starting spot despite having should have taken a second year leap.

 

[OldSchool101]

So what is the preferred OL lineup
Bahktiari, Jenkins, Myers, Runyan, Tom/FA???

I'm assuming Yosh backs up Bahktiari

We definitely need another WR, Sammy has been a disappointment. Jeudy would be REALLY nice to pair with Doubs and Toure

Yeah but between Elgton and Bak you can’t count on both every contest. 1 or the other are out in most games.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Eh...I'd argue against that. We moved players like Trevor Davis before...

Preston is probably the one with the highest return value, but start moving guys for early or late Day 3s and Lazard, Lowry, Tonyan all easily IMO would have interest for sure.

Savage and Bakh simply salary wise aren't moveable at the moment for it to make sense...unless someone was drunk and gave you insanely high draft pick for Bakh to make us eat a TON of money....

Newman is probably the only guy on the list that is tradeable from a money perspective that you'd struggle to find a partner with seeing as how he hasn't held onto his starting spot despite having should have taken a second year leap.

Good points. And considering what might be had in return for these guys (well the guys some team would actually want), it's just not gonna make a big difference.

The Packers are stuck in a strange place. They are maybe three offensive players away from being a formidable team. So they're not like Carolina, a team in full tear down mode. If Rodgers plays next year, and I think he will, it might take sense to try and get a WR and OL this year (well, today actually). And I think Brady will retire this year - and Rodgers won't go into the HOF with him, so Rodgers will play in 2023.

But the team surprised me last night. Arguably it was their best game of the year. MLF stuck with the run and the OL did enough to make it work. Stick with that strategy and they could play .500 ball from here (not enough for a playoff spot).

Does it make sense to try and add a WR and OL, literally today? Only if Gluten thinks it can affect playoff chances. That's hard to see.

So, play out the season, maybe get a decent round 1 pick, grab a WR and/or OL in a trade that wouldn't break the bank. I dunno. The team is just stuck, as are the fans......

 

[tynimiller]

Good points. And considering what might be had in return for these guys (well the guys some team would actually want), it's just not gonna make a big difference.

The Packers are stuck in a strange place. They are maybe three offensive players away from being a formidable team. So they're not like Carolina, a team in full tear down mode. If Rodgers plays next year, and I think he will, it might take sense to try and get a WR and OL this year (well, today actually). And I think Brady will retire this year - and Rodgers won't go into the HOF with him, so Rodgers will play in 2023.

But the team surprised me last night. Arguably it was their best game of the year. MLF stuck with the run and the OL did enough to make it work. Stick with that strategy and they could play .500 ball from here (not enough for a playoff spot).

Does it make sense to try and add a WR and OL, literally today? Only if Gluten thinks it can affect playoff chances. That's hard to see.

So, play out the season, maybe get a decent round 1 pick, grab a WR and/or OL in a trade that wouldn't break the bank. I dunno. The team is just stuck, as are the fans......

I concur, if Gute makes a move now, it is as much for building towards 2023 as it is maybe catching fire this year yet....which is why we won't add a one year guy IMO, it will be a guy with a contract through next season at least.

 

[OldSchool101]

That bad offensive football team just outproduced one of the most lethal, put up nearly 200 yards rushing against what was the #1 run defense in the league....there is no way someone can argue we are a good offensive team but you sound like you're describing a team unable to do anything or is worthless and should most likely be winless.

We are improving you can see that. I’m hoping Matt realizes that he’s got a top 3 RB duo and if he starts running 25+ per game it’ll open things up even against a great Defense. We finally Ran the ball in excess and look what happened? We held Buffalo to their 2nd lowest Yards total (369) and put up a season high (398) yards on the Buffalo Defense.

Realistically? I think we are 1 more good OL and 1 more good WR from scoring 25 points per game imo. The Defense is middling but would win most 24 point games.
We should’ve scored 20 or 21 at Buffalo based on a TD called back (or A missed FG)

 

[tynimiller]

We are improving you can see that. I’m hoping Matt realizes that he’s got a top 3 RB duo and if he starts running 25+ per game it’ll open things up even against a great Defense. We finally Ran the ball in excess and look what happened? We loosened up that Defense as the game wore on. You can’t give up Running after 1 or 2 possessions.

Realistically? I think we are 1 more good OL and 1 more good WR from scoring 25 points per game imo. The Defense is middling but would win most 24 point games.
We should’ve scored 20 or 21 at Buffalo based on a TD called back (or A missed FG) That was on the leagues best Defense and we put up 400 yards of Offense.

We might can score 23-25 average if we get another weapon at Receiver

Honestly, I'd love it if Gute traded for a surefire OL improvement...that arguably might swing the needle quicker than adding a Claypool or a Jeudy.

 

[OldSchool101]

Honestly, I'd love it if Gute traded for a surefire OL improvement...that arguably might swing the needle quicker than adding a Claypool or a Jeudy.

Yes. Particularly if they got a Stud RT (affordable) That would allow us to have Bak or Nijman at LT and keep Elgton inside. LT is too expensive

If we can do that to Buffalo? We can bully our Run game on about 28 teams in this league.

 

[Heyjoe4]

I concur, if Gute makes a move now, it is as much for building towards 2023 as it is maybe catching fire this year yet....which is why we won't add a one year guy IMO, it will be a guy with a contract through next season at least.

That's a good point. Whoever they add (if) will have to be considered part of the team for the long term. I guess we'll find out today.

And on a different subject, I'd be ok replacing Barry with Jerry Gray immediately. I've lost count of how many round 1 picks are on that defense, All Pros and Pro Bowlers..... They need a spark.

 

[tynimiller]

That's a good point. Whoever they add (if) will have to be considered part of the team for the long term. I guess we'll find out today.

And on a different subject, I'd be ok replacing Barry with Jerry Gray immediately. I've lost count of how many round 1 picks are on that defense, All Pros and Pro Bowlers..... They need a spark.

Trades could still happen tomorrow before the deadline, so not necessarily today.

 

[Heyjoe4]

Trades could still happen tomorrow before the deadline, so not necessarily today.

Good to know. Thanks Ty.

 

[OldSchool101]

Good to know. Thanks Ty.

T - 23.5 hrs. and Counting

For trick or treat Packer fans Worldwide would like DJ Moore
Thank you very much!

 

[tynimiller]

T - 23.5 hrs. and Counting

For trick or treat Packer fans Worldwide would like DJ Moore
Thank you very much!

At what cost?

I'll take any of Claypool, Moore and Jeudy for a cost....I just strongly fear each of them are going to take far more than we should give up given our situation.

I for any of them refuse to give up a Day 1 pick...now I'll conditionally offer flipping first rounds if ours ends up higher, but my starting point is Day 2 in a package with others. If I give you a Day 1, you better be sending some Day 2s back to me plus I'll take on some serious otherwise.....like GB sends 2023 1st, 4th, 6th + 2024 5th and we get back so and so's 2023 2nd or 3rd and the WR (perhaps a 6th or 7th Day 3 also in 2024?)

 

[Heyjoe4]

T - 23.5 hrs. and Counting

For trick or treat Packer fans Worldwide would like DJ Moore
Thank you very much!

I'd like DJ Moore as well. Did you see the catch he made yesterday before taking off his helmet and costing the Panthers the game? (I still like him )

 

[Big L]

You know if one finds certain peoples posts so bothersome hmmmmmm… maybe don’t read them? Just spit ballin there LOL

I like reading all of them. Some I agree with, some I don’t, and some I think are hilarious. I am just amazed how some adults can get so worked up about their favorite professional ball club. I love this team or that team and bleed their colors. I don’t understand it or at least not since I was about 10 - lol. Now say negative things about my family and I will get worked up, but my favorite teams?I may counter your point, even tell you that is ridiculous or doesn’t make any sense, but anything more - that ship sailed along time ago.

Go Packers - Brewers - Bucks and Badgers

 

[Big L]

You both do realize picking up his 5th year option already cutting him is not a smart option? Replacing him or seeing if someone can play just as bad or slightly better I am all for - Savage has been worthless on far too many plays....however we have to pay him next year regardless. He will cost us $7,901,000 to the 2023 cap whether we cut him by noon today, or next year.

Just speaking as to what I believe his worth is as an NFL player, not considering any cap implications

 

[Sanguine camper]

No one will take half of the guys you have listed.

Those guys would bring mid to late round picks. If a team is desperate because of injuries, you might get a second for P. Smith and a fourth for Savage. The rest of the guys would bring in fifth and sixth round picks.

 

[Schultz]

If you think loading up on 6th and 7th round picks is the way to rebuild have at it. IMO.
GB will not trade Love or Watson (maybe you meant Watkins) who no-one would take.
List one. No one would take them.
1. Savage- no one not even the Pack want him on that 5th year option. GB is stuck with him.
2. Bakh- contract makes him untradeable.
List 2. If injuries made a team desperate you could get a 7th.
1. Lowry
2. Tonyan
List 3. Guys you could get a 6th for.
1. Newman
2. Lazard
List 4 - could probably get a 4th rounder for P. Smith
IMO.

 

[AKCheese]

Even without his contract you’d get nothing got Bahk, not in his current fragile state

 

[tynimiller]

If you think loading up on 6th and 7th round picks is the way to rebuild have at it. IMO.
GB will not trade Love or Watson (maybe you meant Watkins) who no-one would take.
List one. No one would take them.
1. Savage- no one not even the Pack want him on that 5th year option. GB is stuck with him.
2. Bakh- contract makes him untradeable.
List 2. If injuries made a team desperate you could get a 7th.
1. Lowry
2. Tonyan
List 3. Guys you could get a 6th for.
1. Newman
2. Lazard
List 4 - could probably get a 4th rounder for P. Smith
IMO.

Strongly disagree in saying Lazard and Newman have same value. Lazard is a $8M a year minimum WR in this league if not more like $10M/yr given the market being set the last year or so for them.

No if we were looking to rebuild you're most likely somehow moving Rodgers, Aaron Jones and Preston Smith. P Smith IMO is worth more than Roquan or close given his level of play at a premiere position with an incredibly team friend contract through 2026 and easily cuttable any point before then, Roquan whom Bears got a 2nd and a 5th (plus a vet depth ILB) isn't a rusher and is a one year rental guy. IF we truly wanted to move Preston I could easily see us get a similar package to some extent.

Tonyan is an excellent one year rental type guy IMO for a team looking for now...Lowry a 6th or 7th for a team with up front injuries I could see for sure. Maybe a swap of picks their 5th for Lowry and our 7th type deal at most.

Unless Rodgers is done here we aren't rebuilding though and won't be sellers so our disagreements of value will never been known LOL