Packers trade CB Lenzy Pipkins to Colts for ILB Antonio Morrison

[Dantés]

I get what you are saying on potential upside of a CB over an ILB, but I have a hard time agreeing that Pipkins is more talented using the limited data on him. How do we know Morrison won't get better?

Any teams wanting to trade an O-lineman for Herb Waters?

Well we certainly don’t know that Morrison won’t get better, but I’m speaking athletically. Pipkins is a 6’ 200 lb corner who runs a 4.46. Morrison is a ~235 lb linebacker with limited movement skills. If they were to both max out their athletic ability in terms of applying it to the field, the former would be the better player.

 

[RRyder]

Does any team play a smash mouth offence in 2018? Titans maybe?

He's a good run stopper and I reckon that's good enough for me.

Might leave us a bit vulnerable against a screen, but nothing much can be done about it.

cough cough Jaguars cough cough.

Most offenses aren't ground and pound anymore but even when defending the most spread offense theres going to be situations that call for a thumper.

 

[XPack]

The problem is in other areas. You mentioned the screen pass. The RB swing pass is the modern replacement of the Morris sweep where the intent is to freeze the LBs for a beat as the QB looks off to the middle before the toss. But it goes deeper than that. The evolution of the passing game in the last decade or so has been precisely to attack the middle against guys like Morrison. The slot receiver became a 3 down staple in place of the fullback. Speedier TEs, often tall, bulked up WRs who may not block that well are found on nearly every roster.

And it's not like teams never pass on first down or short yardage. They can find pass game matchup advantages against a base defense.

So, is there "nothing much you can do about it"? There is one thing you can do. Win the sub matchup and defensive call chess game. Limit the instances where Morrison gets caught chasing a cross or up the seam or isolated on a RB.

I don't think Jake Ryan was significantly better in pass coverage. Last season we've seen Blake being an excellent run stopper once Clark got into his groove. I'd suspect we'd see Clark managing the routes so Morrison gets big chunk of run blocking while we may see Blake more in pass coverage. Also Josh Jones and Moran Burnett are both comfortable as ILB, esp in short yardage passing situations and may shore it up.

But yeah, I think we'd draft a bit high on linebackers next year.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

If they were to both max out their athletic ability in terms of applying it to the field, the former would be the better player.

Well sadly, as we have seen with a ton of players with great physical attributes, they don't all become good players. Whether Pipkins or Morrison reach their potential, time will tell. Really the only knock I have heard on Morrison is his speed and some questions as to what his true playing speed is, given his pre-draft times were post staph infection. I have watched some of the film on him, I'm impressed and think he is going to see a lot more playing time than Pipkins would have seen as a Packer.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Given the Packers current depth at CB, I would say the same thing about seeing Pipkins starting.

Oh, you'll see no disagreement from me on that. Despite the popular narrative I blame the majority of the past couple years' defensive issues on secondary personnel (not much any coordinator can do with what the Packers were starting). Hopefully this year we won't see the rash of injuries and wasted picks in the secondary we've seen the past two seasons.

ILB, while not in great hands for the Packers right now, is probably the defensive position that is easiest to work around for a defense.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I don't think Jake Ryan was significantly better in pass coverage. Last season we've seen Blake being an excellent run stopper once Clark got into his groove. I'd suspect we'd see Clark managing the routes so Morrison gets big chunk of run blocking while we may see Blake more in pass coverage. Also Josh Jones and Moran Burnett are both comfortable as ILB, esp in short yardage passing situations and may shore it up.

But yeah, I think we'd draft a bit high on linebackers next year.

Ryan was noticeably better in coverage if not significantly so, but that misses the point. The reason Ryan got as many snaps as he did (48% defensive count) was because Jones proved himself clueless enough to find more of the bench as the season wore on.

You're not aware Morgan Burnett went to the Steelers or Josh Jones is a safety now? The hunt for speed at the ILB position has moved on to Burks.

Again, you're not going to see Martinez and Morrison on the field at the same time unless its a running down or injuries necessitate it. If Martinez was good in coverage it might be a different story, but he's not that guy. A key attraction with Morrison is as a backup to Martinez as the primary run stopper. Further, take Martinez out of the picture with an injury and who would call the signals, a job that got kicked around the ballfield last season until it finally landed back with Martinez. There wasn't anybody with a single NFL snap until you picked up a 3-4 ILB with starting experience.

 

[XPack]

If Martinez was good in coverage it might be a different story, but he's not that guy. A key attraction with Morrison is as a backup to Martinez as the primary run stopper. Take Martinez out of the picture with an injury and who would call the signals, a job that got kicked around the ballfield until it finally landed with Martinez. There wasn't anybody with a single NFL snap until you picked up an 3-4 ILB with starting experience.

Yup. Martinez could be the key to our defence this season. Without him, I reckon we are in big trouble.

 

[HardRightEdge]

ILB, while not in great hands for the Packers right now, is probably the defensive position that is easiest to work around for a defense.

It's not that easy of a work around but it is more often than not required around the league. The reality is that quality 3-down ILBs are very hard to find. Finding a guy who can hit, shed blocks, has speed and range, can cover, has solid instincts, and the football intelligence to call the signals and adjustments is a rare commodity. There are a fair number of top drawer players at all other positions who cycle in and out and and back into the Pro Bowl and All Pro ranks from one year to the next, but the ILB ranks tend to be domininated by a small number of players in each generation. If the Brady-Rodgers-Brees triumveate are the dominant QBs for the last decade, consider Lewis-Urlacher-Willis-Bowman-Wagner-Keuchly dominating the position of the last two decades. Maybe Mosely is the leading edge of the next small group.

I think Minnesota demonstrates well the workaround if you can manage it. Kendricks is not a spectacular ILB, but he is a 3-down ILB in a 4-3 defense working a 97% snap count last season. He brings some physical shortcomings but he brings intangibles. He's solid. You can take that and field a top drawer defense if the other pieces are there. In fact, that's pretty much required unless you happen to draft one of those top drawer ILBs that come around once every few years.

Hawk was that reliable guy in 2010, the decline began in 2011, and it got worse from there. Martinez might be that reliable guy. But do you have the other pieces? Not yet I don't believe.

 

[RicFlairoftheNFL]

Makes me think that A. Burks is a bit more banged up than they're saying and B.) Martini isn't gettin the job done.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

Makes me think that A. Burks is a bit more banged up than they're saying and B.) Martini isn't gettin the job done.

Even if Burks was 100%, this trade makes sense. Martini looks like a practice squad guy to me, but we'll see.

 

[Arthur Squires]

Solid trade overall. Pip wasn't making this roster and Morrison has a good chance at playing next to Martinez if Burks isn't panning out right away. Also I have the Colts being one of the worst teams this season. I even have the browns winning more games.

 

[OldSchool101]

Antonio specializes in run stop, particularly in the A and B gaps. I see him being used in short yardage situations particularly in “goal to go” situations. He’ll be a nice compliment as Martinez’ Wing man in that role. It’ll be hard to move the ball on the ground against those 2 ILBs along with Mo the Shmo, Big Mike and Kenny.
I believe this year’s D line has the potential to slow the game down on our opponent. That becomes problematic for them when you have Aaron Rodgers back throwing strikes, chewing up chunks of yardage and keeping that average score around 30pts/gm+
The group that will be tested the most is our secondary and I’m excited for once to see them rise to the occasion.

 

[gbgary]

Does any team play a smash mouth offence in 2018? Titans maybe?

He's a good run stopper and I reckon that's good enough for me.

Might leave us a bit vulnerable against a screen, but nothing much can be done about it.

dallas will be run heavy this season.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

dallas will be run heavy this season.

Last season not a single team run the ball more often than throwing it with the Jaguars (48.9%) being the most run oriented team in the league.