Packers trade CB Lenzy Pipkins to Colts for ILB Antonio Morrison

[7thFloorRA]

He led his team in tackles last year. He may be slow but that should count for something. He isn't going to sit on the bench. He is the new Jake Ryan. 2 down player.

 

[thequick12]

It’s not always the case, but trades can be “win, win.” Pipkins is a talented player with a shot at becoming a role player in an NFL defense. It makes sense from their perspective.

I also ment that perhaps Morrison wasn't gonna make the colts roster somehow. Yeah looked it up sounds like he fell out of favor with the colts new staff and he wasn't gonna make the 53 either

 

[longtimefan]

i have absolutely no idea if this is true; you can do some research if you want to try to verify...
but i read i think on reddit somewhere that he was recovering from a staph infection days before he ran his 40
he was advised not to run but wanted to prove his toughness
again, research if you want to verify, just something related that i read

The Indianapolis Colts’ next boom-or-bust prospect won over his future employers by running the 40-yard dash four days after a catheter was taken out of his chest. Before that, Antonio Morrison spent six weeks on antibiotics, fighting off a staph infection that caused him to miss the NFL Scouting

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.indystar.com/amp/83756874

 

[longtimefan]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles...t-2016-scouting-report-grade-for-colts-rookie

COMBINE RESULTS

Height: 6'3"

Weight: 235 lbs.

40 Time: 4.75s

 

[Dantés]

I also ment that perhaps Morrison wasn't gonna make the colts roster somehow. Yeah looked it up sounds like he fell out of favor with the colts new staff and he wasn't gonna make the 53 either

That makes sense. Their new defense will be a true 4-3 and will require better movement skills from linebackers. It just so happens that the Packers has a need for a base set MIKE since Ryan went down.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Not sure how anyone could dislike this trade. We got a guy who may start for us in exchange for a guy who might have been cut considering he was behind Williams king house jackson and Alexander and maybe others

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

This is an excellent frugal move... Can we do this for a left tackle back up now?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I dont care if he runs a 6.0 40. IF anything, its telling of his instincts if he makes that many tackles. He is the leading tackler of the Colts and some people are upset that we traded for this guy? On the contract that he is on? Because he is a vocal leader?? Im sure he'll take it slow and let other people lead the way on his new team. This trade is an A+ all the way, well done again BG

Not caring if a guy runs 6.0 (or 5.1 for that matter) is not smart. To illustrate, Morrison had 64 solo tackles on 812 defensive snaps. Martinez had 96 solo tackles on 982 defensive snaps. Why the disparity? In a word, "range", and Martinez is not all that fast to begin with. Further, Martinez is not very good in coverage. If you don't believe me then ask the Packer personnel guys who invested some decent draft capital in Jones and then Burks to play with Martinez , guys with speed who played a lot or some college safety. Even Ahmad Thomas is an ex-safety.

So, how are you going to put Martinez and Morrison on the field at the same time? You're not, unless you expect a run. Again, base and short yardage. More snaps against teams that run the ball a lot between the tackles. Few or none against pass happy teams with speedy backs who catch a lot of balls.

I don't see a single post where anybody expressed upset over making this trade. What I do see is some individuals overhyping it with grades like A+.

A+ is reserved for drafting an LT in the 4th. round who becomes an immediate quality starter and eventual Pro Bowler. If Alexander becomes a quality starter and eventual Pro Bowler that gets an A. The first round pick that came in the swap would bump it to A+.

Trading a guy you're going to cut for a rotational player at this price who's better than what you have is a good trade. It is not a game changer. It is not an A+. It's the kind of move I would not assign a grade. It's better than not making the trade.

So, I'm not complaining. I'm an advocate of having some physicality off the line in the middle of the field, be a LB or a S. I would have liked to see the Packers pick up Brandon Spikes a couple years back for the same role. But make no mistake...this player in today's game is role player.

 

[mradtke66]

This is an excellent frugal move... Can we do this for a left tackle back up now?

Problem: OTs are in such sort supply, (really, functional OL in general) that if we were to cut Spriggs or Murphy, they are unlikely to clear waviers.

In other words, ain't nobody trading anything resembling a good LT with a pulse for anything less than a 4th.

 

[rodell330]

I am thinking of Desmond Biship when I read about Morrison

I was thinking Brad Jones myself

 

[elcid]

Not caring if a guy runs 6.0 (or 5.1 for that matter) is not smart. To illustrate, Morrison had 64 solo tackles on 812 defensive snaps. Martinez had 96 solo tackles on 982 defensive snaps. Why the disparity? In a word, "range", and Martinez is not all that fast to begin with. Further, Martinez is not very good in coverage. If you don't believe me then ask the Packer personnel guys who invested some decent draft capital in Jones and then Burks to play with Martinez , guys with speed who played a lot or some college safety. Even Ahmad Thomas is an ex-safety.

So, how are you going to put Martinez and Morrison on the field at the same time? You're not, unless you expect a run. Again, base and short yardage. More snaps against teams that run the ball a lot between the tackles. Few or none against pass happy teams with speedy backs who catch a lot of balls.

I don't see a single post where anybody expressed upset over making this trade. What I do see is some individuals overhyping it with grades like A+.

A+ is reserved for drafting an LT in the 4th. round who becomes an immediate quality starter and eventual Pro Bowler. If Alexander becomes a quality starter and eventual Pro Bowler that gets an A. The first round pick that came in the swap would bump it to A+.

Trading a guy you're going to cut for a rotational player at this price who's better than what you have is a good trade. It is not a game changer. It is not an A+. It's the kind of move I would not assign a grade. It's better than not making the trade.

So, I'm not complaining. I'm an advocate of having some physicality off the line in the middle of the field, be a LB or a S. I would have liked to see the Packers pick up Brandon Spikes a couple years back for the same role. But make no mistake...this player in today's game is role player.

I see your point, and it sure doesnt hurt being critical of Morrisson's flaws. But imo an A+ is reserved for trades where we gain waaaaaay more value than we have lost. Sure, time will tell how good these guys actually will be. But Pipkins was probably already on the out, and we got a more experienced, cheap tackler for him in return, who could even potentially start for us. There was no way BG was able to squeeze more value out of Pip.

 

[Curly Calhoun]

This one was a slam-dunk - Shoring up an area of weakness (due in part to injury) by dealing from an area of relative strength (Pipkins was, at best, GB's sixth corner). Morrison is not the next Ray Nitsckke, but he's likely an upgrade over Greer Martini.

I'm starting to be impressed with Gute - These seemingly little moves are the ones that can make the difference.

 

[Poppa San]

Not sure how anyone could dislike this trade. We got a guy who may start for us in exchange for a guy who might have been cut considering he was behind Williams king house jackson and Alexander and maybe others

Interesting that the few Colts boards I've visited have said the same thing the other way. Borderline starter or definite step up in depth for someone getting cut anyway. TBT I think Pipkins will develop into a decent CB but was just caught in the numbers game in GB. If he were two seasons sooner, he'd be a penciled in starter now and Gute wouldn't have had to draft any CBs last spring.

 

[Mondio]

This was one of those trades where both sides get what they want/need. Had we not had so much investement and guys ahead of pipkins he makes this team. Had Ryan not got hurt, we don't need the trade. We got a role player, the Colts got one too. Nobody fleeced anybody and I don't think either got "more" value out of this. Both teams got what they wanted

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I think we can thank the Lions for this one. Much like Matt Flynns career game against the Lions, Pipkins saw almost half of his NFL snaps (52 of 122) at CB in the Lions game last January. He was credited with 5 tackles and 2 pass breaks ups, but was beat on 2 plays as well.

I can see where Colts fans are optimistic about Pipkins potential, maybe he turns into the next Casey Hayward, or not. However, I think we know more of what we got in Morrison, last year alone he played defense for 811 snaps and special teams 165. In 2017 he had 332/265 snaps.

 

[Dantés]

I think we can thank the Lions for this one. Much like Matt Flynns career game against the Lions, Pipkins saw almost half of his NFL snaps (52 of 122) at CB in the Lions game last January. He was credited with 5 tackles and 2 pass breaks ups, but was beat on 2 plays as well.

I can see where Colts fans are optimistic about Pipkins potential, maybe he turns into the next Casey Hayward, or not. However, I think we know more of what we got in Morrison, last year alone he played defense for 811 snaps and special teams 165. In 2017 he had 332/265 snaps.

The balance is that while Morrison is more proven and straightforward as a player, Pipkins is more talented and players a more important position. So I can kind of see how the values leveled out. And of course most importantly, as many have pointed out, both teams exchanged players who either didn't fit or they didn't have room for to address a need.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The balance is that while Morrison is more proven and straightforward as a player, Pipkins is more talented and players a more important position. So I can kind of see how the values leveled out. And of course most importantly, as many have pointed out, both teams exchanged players who either didn't fit or they didn't have room for to address a need.

I get what you are saying on potential upside of a CB over an ILB, but I have a hard time agreeing that Pipkins is more talented using the limited data on him. How do we know Morrison won't get better?

Any teams wanting to trade an O-lineman for Herb Waters?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Interesting that the few Colts boards I've visited have said the same thing the other way. Borderline starter or definite step up in depth for someone getting cut anyway. TBT I think Pipkins will develop into a decent CB but was just caught in the numbers game in GB. If he were two seasons sooner, he'd be a penciled in starter now and Gute wouldn't have had to draft any CBs last spring.

Morrison is an endangered species in the NFL, not unlike the fullback position...a downhill, smash mouth ILB with limited range. His place is the tackle box and out to the numbers on a slowly developing stretch run. You do not want him in pass coverage. Of course that's better than Martini who is not smash mouth while also having limited range. While that smash mouth guy has some utility in a 3-4 base defense, the fit is poor in the Colts switch to 4-3.

Your assessment of Pipkins is pretty rosy. In the final analysis, I would characterize him as a box safety in a cornerback's body.

Will Morrison be the "starter" week 1, snap 1? Given it's Chicago, a team that likes to run the ball a lot while Mitchell Trubisky does not exactly strike fear in anybody's heart, that's not unreasonable. If he does his job and it's 2nd. and 8, he'll be quickly off the field. If he doesn't and it's 2nd. and 2, he might get the next snap.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I just ran across this which hits the nail on the head:

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/08/26/what-the-packers-are-getting-in-new-lb-antonio-morrison/

However, the statement, "he’s not here to supplement Burks," is a little odd since that is exactly what they describe situationally. Maybe they meant "supplement" in the sense that he would not take Burks snaps if Burks shoulder injury keeps him out which would be the clear assessment. Somebody else would be the nickel guy, and that's going to be Thomas, or Jones back in that role.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The news on Burks is positive! With the trade for Morrison and if Burks can get back fast, I am much more confident in the position.

https://www.packers.com/news/news-not-bad-on-oren-burks-injury

 

[Sunshinepacker]

As a Gators fan, I have two things to say. One, it's nice to finally have a Gator on the team to root for (and Zook does NOT count). Two, I hope I never have the chance to root for him in a game because he might be a good backup but I certainly don't want him starting.

 

[gbgary]

trade makes sense. a guy from a position of depth for a guy to add to a position of very little depth. ted signed off on it. low risk as even if he doesn't make the team there's nothing really lost.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

As a Gators fan, I have two things to say. One, it's nice to finally have a Gator on the team to root for (and Zook does NOT count). Two, I hope I never have the chance to root for him in a game because he might be a good backup but I certainly don't want him starting.

Given the Packers current depth at CB, I would say the same thing about seeing Pipkins starting.

 

[XPack]

Morrison is an endangered species in the NFL, not unlike the fullback position...a downhill, smash mouth ILB with limited range. His place is the tackle box and out to the numbers on a slowly developing stretch run. You do not want him in pass coverage. Of course that's better than Martini who is not smash mouth while also having limited range. While that smash mouth guy has some utility in a 3-4 base defense, the fit is poor in the Colts switch to 4-3.

Does any team play a smash mouth offence in 2018? Titans maybe?

He's a good run stopper and I reckon that's good enough for me.

Might leave us a bit vulnerable against a screen, but nothing much can be done about it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Does any team play a smash mouth offence in 2018? Titans maybe?


He's a good run stopper and I reckon that's good enough for me.
Might leave us a bit vulnerable against a screen, but nothing much can be done about it.

If by "smash mouth offense" you mean pounding the ball with Csonka and Kiick, obviously not. But the sweep with Mercury Morris is endangered as well.

Even teams that like to run a lot run between the tackles or off tackle. Defenses have gotten too fast to pitch it out and expect the guy to round the corner. It's fairly common to see even attempted stretch plays get blown up for a loss so they're not run very often. Runners getting around the edge these days is pretty much a function of sucking defenders inside with the intial move, setting up the blocks, and then bouncing the run outside.

A classic run stuffer like Morrison is not an especial liability on the perimenter in the run game if the read-and-react is there. He can ball up a lane, get off a block, and force or stretch out a bounce to the numbers where somebody else can come in to clean up.

The problem is in other areas. You mentioned the screen pass. The RB swing pass is the modern replacement of the Morris sweep where the intent is to freeze the LBs for a beat as the QB looks off to the middle before the toss. But it goes deeper than that. The evolution of the passing game in the last decade or so has been precisely to attack the middle against guys like Morrison. The slot receiver became a 3 down staple in place of the fullback. Speedier TEs, often tall, bulked up WRs who may not block that well are found on nearly every roster.

And it's not like teams never pass on first down or short yardage. They can find pass game matchup advantages against a base defense.

So, is there "nothing much you can do about it"? There is one thing you can do. Win the sub matchup and defensive call chess game. Limit the instances where Morrison gets caught chasing a cross or up the seam or isolated on a RB.