Packers sign cb Beene Benwikere

[Poppa San]

The question isn't whether TT could have found a Rison at cb, the way Randall has played, anybody would have been an improvement with the exception of Rollins. Randall had the third worst qb rating out of 119 cb's in the league. Let that sink in. Throwing at him is nearly a guaranteed first down. Next man up is ok as long as the guy holds his own like Taylor. When players suck, they can't be allowed to destroy another season.

Is there a way to get his scores weekly? How bad was Randall after week 2? 5? 9? etc. Rollins too. Also Goodson was due back after week 4. I think TT was trusting the process until injuries overwhelmed the one spot. But they were always 1-2 weeks away from health and full strength less Shields. Injuries to the same players every 3-4 weeks set them back. This is why I think TT stood pat and didn't aggressively pursue someone. In hindsight, probably should have made a move. At the time, it was give it another week or two and we'll be OK.

 

[rodell330]

Is there a way to get his scores weekly? How bad was Randall after week 2? 5? 9? etc. Rollins too. Also Goodson was due back after week 4. I think TT was trusting the process until injuries overwhelmed the one spot. But they were always 1-2 weeks away from health and full strength less Shields. Injuries to the same players every 3-4 weeks set them back. This is why I think TT stood pat and didn't aggressively pursue someone. In hindsight, probably should have made a move. At the time, it was give it another week or two and we'll be OK.

Even semi healthy these guys have looked bad though. Gunter is one of the slowest corners I've ever seen in the NFL, and Randall is one of the softest. Ppl forget how bad Rollins was post injury but he's a combination of the two. And none of these guys can tackle!!

 

[Mondio]

The question isn't whether TT could have found a Rison at cb, the way Randall has played, anybody would have been an improvement with the exception of Rollins. Randall had the third worst qb rating out of 119 cb's in the league. Let that sink in. Throwing at him is nearly a guaranteed first down. Next man up is ok as long as the guy holds his own like Taylor. When players suck, they can't be allowed to destroy another season.

And what was he rated last year? Does he suck? Are there reasons he "sucks"? No ability? A season of repeated injuries with in season surgery? You feel the staff had no reason to believe in their 2 young corners?

For the same reason everyone was wrong in Adams last year, there's a good chance they're wrong about these guys for the same reason.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think I sit somewhere in the middle of these two positions. However, I think that when a team is sitting on the verge of a chance at another championship, that is the time to make a move. Consider How great the overall roster was back in 1996... that did not stop Wolf from going out and grabbing Andre Rison to shore up the wide receiver position for the final stretch. Sometimes it only takes a short term player to make the difference.

OK, easy to say that. What players were actually available that would have helped the team?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I know it´s blasphemy even talking about it with Thompson supporters but go figure it´s possible to trade draft picks. If the Packers had decided to acquire a rental player they would have even been able to get a compensatory pick in return. I´m absolutely convinced some teams out of the playoff picture by the time the deadline rolled around would have been interested in a trade with the Packers.

Which corners should have been traded for? What caliber draft pick are you giving up? You say these things like it's an absolute certainty and yet I don't recall a single starting corner being traded during the season for a draft pick in quite some time. You don't think the Falcons would like to have a starting corner to replace the guy they lost?

You say absolutely convinced but I don't see any historical evidence that would make me believe that's the case.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Which corners should have been traded for? What caliber draft pick are you giving up? You say these things like it's an absolute certainty and yet I don't recall a single starting corner being traded during the season for a draft pick in quite some time. You don't think the Falcons would like to have a starting corner to replace the guy they lost?

You say absolutely convinced but I don't see any historical evidence that would make me believe that's the case.

Joe Haden was one possibility.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...e-haden-sheldon-richardson-on-the-trade-block

Telling Captain, myself or anyone that because you think it couldn't happen or it didn't happen isn't really proving that it couldn't have or shouldn't have. Trades are not as common in the NFL as they once were, but they still occur.

BTW.....here is a list of 2016 Trades that occurred.

http://nfltraderumors.co/list-completed-2016-nfl-trades/

 

[Deleted member 6794]

In hindsight, probably should have made a move. At the time, it was give it another week or two and we'll be OK.

Once the trade deadline rolled around it was pretty obvious to everybody that the cornerbacks on the Packers roster would struggle for the rest of the season. Therefore a move should have been made.

And what was he rated last year? Does he suck? Are there reasons he "sucks"? No ability? A season of repeated injuries with in season surgery? You feel the staff had no reason to believe in their 2 young corners?

For the same reason everyone was wrong in Adams last year, there's a good chance they're wrong about these guys for the same reason.

PFF graded Randall at 69.4 during his rookie season which would have ranked him 74th among 115 qualifying cornerbacks this season. According to them he wasn´t that impressive in 2015 as some here might want us to believe.

 

[Sky King]

...Interestingly I haven't seen the same sentiment for players who tried to tackle a runner or catch a ball but failed to do so. Maybe we should praise them for attempting to make a play as well. ...

They give participation trophies for that nowadays.

 

[El Guapo]

Geez, Rollins and Randall must have sucked their first year in the NFL.

I think what you're seeing are two guys with talent, going through a terrible sophomore slump combined with injuries, and a GM that sees enough upside that he would rather force them to learn instead of throwing two players in the garbage heap. Capers has worked some miracles to hold the defense together, and no matter what your stance on all of this the simple fact remains that this team as a whole is good enough to play in the NFCCG.

 

[Mondio]

Once the trade deadline rolled around it was pretty obvious to everybody that the cornerbacks on the Packers roster would struggle for the rest of the season. Therefore a move should have been made.



PFF graded Randall at 69.4 during his rookie season which would have ranked him 74th among 115 qualifying cornerbacks this season. According to them he wasn´t that impressive in 2015 as some here might want us to believe.

you know when the Capt. goes searching for states, he only looks for the ones he likes

What did Rollins rate? What did PFF rate the packers going into the season, Rollins and Randall included? What was his 69.4 ranking last season, the same season he was given it for. According to PFF they rather liked them, despite your taking last years ranking and applying it to this years stats. and besides that was his ROOKIE season. no reason to think he'd get better I guess. Probably topped out.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-cornerback-groups/

7. Green Bay Packers
Top CBs: Sam Shields, Damarious Randall, Quinten Rollins

Key stat: Rollins posted a 58.4 passer rating allowed last season, fourth-best in the NFL.

Not many teams could lose their best cornerback and still boast a top-10 trio of CBs in the NFL. Such is the Packers’ outstanding turnover of cornerback talent that they should be able to sustain the loss of Casey Hayward to the Chargers and not miss a beat. All three of these corners went, on average, more than 10 snaps in coverage between receptions allowed; the Packers were one of only six teams to see their corners surrender completions so infrequently.

and last year PFF had Haden as one of the WORST corners in the league when he played.

Haden hasn’t played in many games this year, but when he has, the Browns would have been better off with him not suiting up. Haden is averaging just 6.2 cover snaps per reception, which is the fourth-lowest in the NFL. What’s more, his 2.60 yards per cover snaps allowed is the most in the NFL. Quarterbacks targeting Haden are 24-for-31 for 387 yards and four touchdowns. That’s a QB rating of 158.2. Quarterbacks in the NFL this season have been 0.1 point off of being absolutely perfect throwing at Joe Haden.

ESPN has Haden listed as one of the top 10 biggest disappointments of THIS year. but he's the guy we keep seeing we should have traded for. I have no opinion, I can't say the Browns are a team i watched once this year. But he doesn't sound like a guy i even want to take on the salary for, let alone give up draft picks.

But I get it, things should just happen, just because.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

you know when the Capt. goes searching for states, he only looks for the ones he likes

What did Rollins rate? What did PFF rate the packers going into the season, Rollins and Randall included? What was his 69.4 ranking last season, the same season he was given it for. According to PFF they rather liked them, despite your taking last years ranking and applying it to this years stats. and besides that was his ROOKIE season. no reason to think he'd get better I guess. Probably topped out.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-ranking-all-32-nfl-cornerback-groups/


and last year PFF had Haden as one of the WORST corners in the league when he played.



ESPN has Haden listed as one of the top 10 biggest disappointments of THIS year. but he's the guy we keep seeing we should have traded for. I have no opinion, I can't say the Browns are a team i watched once this year. But he doesn't sound like a guy i even want to take on the salary for, let alone give up draft picks.

But I get it, things should just happen, just because.

Good homework. Since I was also one of the posters mentioning Haden, I will respond as well. People like yourself were asking "who was out there to trade for?" Haden was a name I threw out, because it was an obvious name, a player that was publically on the trading block. If your information is correct and he wouldn't have been a good fit, then kudos to TT for not making a trade. However, that doesn't mean that there weren't others available that would have improved the Packers CB situation. Saying "nothing can be done" is saying you accept the current situation as it is. I found the situation the Packers found themselves to be in with their CB's unacceptable and still think it could ultimately cost us a SB. So whether it was Joe Haden, Tramon Williams, or Joe Schmo, I still firmly believe that TT could have gone out and found a player to improve our CB situation.

I will also acknowledge, that for all I know, TT was on the phone day and night for weeks trying to find a CB and just didn't find one. But given TT's MO, that seems unlikely.

Edit and Sidenote: Also, I would gladly be sitting here today without a 2017 2nd round pick, if it meant we had a CB that not only made our defense better, but we wouldn't have to use that 2nd round pick next year to try and find one.

 

[Mondio]

I would too, i would have gladly given a 1st and 3rd for that DB. Saying something should be done, or could have been done and making it likely are very different. I am not in the camp that Ted doesn't work hard. I'll go on record again as saying I think he works harder than most. So I don't believe that he just said, i'm not looking. I think it's disingenuous to suggest he is and doesn't take into account what this team is from top to bottom.

They believe in their work. They wouldn't still be playing if they didn't. Even with Rodgers we were staring at an 8 win season at best, yet here we are. I think injuries have made it very difficult, in terms of how severe some have been, and some just not severe enough to force change. It's hard when you have real roster spots in question and guys that are likely to play and develop. Guys that had a pretty dang good rookie year.

 

[PackerDNA]

I gave you an agree, as I do with most of your post.
The bolded part, I'm not so sure; maybe from the day after the season till the day after the draft, minus a nap during free agency.

I would too, i would have gladly given a 1st and 3rd for that DB. Saying something should be done, or could have been done and making it likely are very different. I am not in the camp that Ted doesn't work hard. I'll go on record again as saying I think he works harder than most. So I don't believe that he just said, i'm not looking. I think it's disingenuous to suggest he is and doesn't take into account what this team is from top to bottom.

They believe in their work. They wouldn't still be playing if they didn't. Even with Rodgers we were staring at an 8 win season at best, yet here we are. I think injuries have made it very difficult, in terms of how severe some have been, and some just not severe enough to force change. It's hard when you have real roster spots in question and guys that are likely to play and develop. Guys that had a pretty dang good rookie year.

 

[PikeBadger]

Good homework. Since I was also one of the posters mentioning Haden, I will respond as well. People like yourself were asking "who was out there to trade for?" Haden was a name I threw out, because it was an obvious name, a player that was publically on the trading block. If your information is correct and he wouldn't have been a good fit, then kudos to TT for not making a trade. However, that doesn't mean that there weren't others available that would have improved the Packers CB situation. Saying "nothing can be done" is saying you accept the current situation as it is. I found the situation the Packers found themselves to be in with their CB's unacceptable and still think it could ultimately cost us a SB. So whether it was Joe Haden, Tramon Williams, or Joe Schmo, I still firmly believe that TT could have gone out and found a player to improve our CB situation.

I will also acknowledge, that for all I know, TT was on the phone day and night for weeks trying to find a CB and just didn't find one. But given TT's MO, that seems unlikely.

Edit and Sidenote: Also, I would gladly be sitting here today without a 2017 2nd round pick, if it meant we had a CB that not only made our defense better, but we wouldn't have to use that 2nd round pick next year to try and find one.

I've never realized that Thompson's MO was to not work at improving the team. He must have had weak moments when he picked up Cook, Schum, Davis and Michael.

 

[Sanguine camper]

And what was he rated last year? Does he suck? Are there reasons he "sucks"? No ability? A season of repeated injuries with in season surgery? You feel the staff had no reason to believe in their 2 young corners?

For the same reason everyone was wrong in Adams last year, there's a good chance they're wrong about these guys for the same reason.

Im not saying cut Randall just yet but when you are 116th out if 119 cb's in the league, you have not performed well enough to keep playing and potentially destroy a super bowl run. Maybe he's hurt and will improve next year. Right now I'm concerned about the next two weeks and it doesn't bode well when you have to face Julio Jones with a putrid track record at cb.

 

[Mondio]

He hasn't played well. At times he's looked pretty good, and others he looks as bad as the ratings he's had. I can't argue that he's been good. I think he's got an attitude that needs to be coached thru, and I think he has had some injuries he needs to heal from. Not a good year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he made a big play yet this year yet either.

 

[PikeBadger]

I would too, i would have gladly given a 1st and 3rd for that DB. Saying something should be done, or could have been done and making it likely are very different. I am not in the camp that Ted doesn't work hard. I'll go on record again as saying I think he works harder than most. So I don't believe that he just said, i'm not looking. I think it's disingenuous to suggest he is and doesn't take into account what this team is from top to bottom.

They believe in their work. They wouldn't still be playing if they didn't. Even with Rodgers we were staring at an 8 win season at best, yet here we are. I think injuries have made it very difficult, in terms of how severe some have been, and some just not severe enough to force change. It's hard when you have real roster spots in question and guys that are likely to play and develop. Guys that had a pretty dang good rookie year.

"They believe in their work"

This is the crux of the matter that essentially divides Packer fanatics into 3 camps.

Those that also believe in their work.
Those that partially believe in their work.
Those that do not believe in their work.

Their = coaching staff and management.

In a nutshell this is how Packernation is currently divided.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I've never realized that Thompson's MO was to not work at improving the team. He must have had weak moments when he picked up Cook, Schum, Davis and Michael.

I think you are taking my statement of "not being TT's MO" out of context. That wasn't a statement about the overall job that TT does. I know TT works hard. If you know me and I know people can't keep track of everyone's viewpoints, I am a TT supporter. However, I am of the opinion, in this situation, TT could have done more. Either he was getting poor information from the trainers on the status of Shields and/or the coaches as to the abilities of current Packer CB's on the active 53 and PS or his hopes for improvement from his own players, never came to fruition. Or simply, he couldn't find a trade partner to improve the position.

So I would ammend my last statement from: "I will also acknowledge, that for all I know, TT was on the phone day and night for weeks trying to find a CB and just didn't find one. But given TT's MO, that seems unlikely." to a simple, "It appears to this fan, that TT did not do enough to address an obvious problem with the CB position."

 

[DMANDTM]

It would have been nice if we had just kept what we had. Casey Hayward could have been kept at a decent price. He had a great year and would have been our number one when Shields went down.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

It would have been nice if we had just kept what we had. Casey Hayward could have been kept at a decent price. He had a great year and would have been our number one when Shields went down.

Hayward hamburgered his hammy a few years ago. GB watched 2 year recovery and im sure that weighed heavy in their decision... Chargers over paid at the time IMO , but the risk definitely paid off.

Im very confident Randall, Rollins, and Gunter will heal up. Regroup, and reflect. Come back strong next year... Along with the couple CBs that will surely be added... It would be nice to have a shut down CB though...

 

[Carl]

Hayward hamburgered his hammy a few years ago. GB watched 2 year recovery and im sure that weighed heavy in their decision... Chargers over paid at the time IMO , but the risk definitely paid off.

Im very confident Randall, Rollins, and Gunter will heal up. Regroup, and reflect. Come back strong next year... Along with the couple CBs that will surely be added... It would be nice to have a shut down CB though...

It's too bad shut down corners are hard to find and now TT has to do it again after Shields went down.

Hopefully, he can find another, but if he does it will likely take a few seasons.

 

[GreenBaySlacker]

I remember both times we spent big on a free agent CB, I was ticked. It seemed like a fortune when Woodson , and Al Harris was signed. Both turned out to be stars on this team. Al Harris is one of my all time favorite players... And in both cases, when each of their contracts expired, they were considered bargains. In that they were at the top of their game, and in the 4 or 5 years since they signed, a dozen dudes signed bigger better deals.

It doesn't always turn out that way. But in those two cases, Ted nailed it!

 

[PikeBadger]

I think you are taking my statement of "not being TT's MO" out of context. That wasn't a statement about the overall job that TT does. I know TT works hard. If you know me and I know people can't keep track of everyone's viewpoints, I am a TT supporter. However, I am of the opinion, in this situation, TT could have done more. Either he was getting poor information from the trainers on the status of Shields and/or the coaches as to the abilities of current Packer CB's on the active 53 and PS or his hopes for improvement from his own players, never came to fruition. Or simply, he couldn't find a trade partner to improve the position.

So I would ammend my last statement from: "I will also acknowledge, that for all I know, TT was on the phone day and night for weeks trying to find a CB and just didn't find one. But given TT's MO, that seems unlikely." to a simple, "It appears to this fan, that TT did not do enough to address an obvious problem with the CB position."

That's fair. Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[PikeBadger]

It would have been nice if we had just kept what we had. Casey Hayward could have been kept at a decent price. He had a great year and would have been our number one when Shields went down.

I don't think Hayward would of made an appreciable difference on this team this year.

 

[swhitset]

I don't think Hayward would of made an appreciable difference on this team this year.

really??