Overall Graft Grades, PF "experts"

[Dantés]

I gave you an “agree” so you wouldn’t think I was picking at you. For a WR at the NFL level that should be a red flag

I also think J’mon was just dealing with the nuances of a new system and maybe some nerves. I think he will come around this year

Concentration drops were an issue for Moore coming out of college, but never to the point that we saw in TC/PS last year. If it's a similarly severe problem this year, then they might need to move on.

He's a funny proposition for me, because if he can catch the ball, I think he may have quite a significant impact. But if he can't, I think he could be cut. So the range of possibilities is about as wide as it gets.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Concentration drops were an issue for Moore coming out of college, but never to the point that we saw in TC/PS last year. If it's a similarly severe problem this year, then they might need to move on.

He's a funny proposition for me, because if he can catch the ball, I think he may have quite a significant impact. But if he can't, I think he could be cut. So the range of possibilities is about as wide as it gets.

This was a pretty good article on the "too many dropped balls perception". Now its much easier to apply this theory to WR's that have an established NFL career and not as easy with a noobie like J'Mon. He was a player that IMO should have gotten a lot more work once the Packers were eliminated. Not sure why he didn't. In total, he only had 74 snaps on offense and 3 targets, not really how I would want to work a rookie through his drop issues and get him confidence as well as experience for the next season.

https://www.thebackyardbanter.com/fighting-through-negativity-bias-and-a-wide-receivers-drops.html

 

[Dantés]

This was a pretty good article on the "too many dropped balls perception". Now its much easier to apply this theory to WR's that have an established NFL career and not as easy with a noobie like J'Mon. He was a player that IMO should have gotten a lot more work once the Packers were eliminated. Not sure why he didn't. In total, he only had 74 snaps on offense and 3 targets, not really how I would want to work a rookie through his drop issues and get him confidence as well as experience for the next season.

https://www.thebackyardbanter.com/fighting-through-negativity-bias-and-a-wide-receivers-drops.html

I think Philbin thought he might legitimately have a shot to keep the job, so he was coaching to win, not to give developmental snaps to guys further down the depth chart.

I generally agree with the premise that drops are overblown in their level of importance, but Moore wasn't dealing with a normal case. His hands were so bad that he was rendered basically ineffective.

 

[Dantés]

Not sure where I heard this, but apparently the Packers are very pleased with JMons off season. He has been training hard and is in the best shape if his life. Let's hope training includes 2 hrs per day on the ***** machine.

I've seen some clips of him working out and he's looked very impressive.

 

[GleefulGary]

Sherrod was selected in the first round (32nd overall) of the 2011 NFL Draft by the Green Bay Packers.[2][3] He was the first Mississippi State Bulldog selected in the first round since Walt Harris and Eric Moulds in 1996.

Yeah, but was he ever in the starting lineup with Rodgers?

 

[longtimefan]

Yeah, but was he ever in the starting lineup with Rodgers?

Question was lined up with .. Not starting

You don't recall?

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[Half Empty]

Had to chuckle at the Rogers/1st round discussion. Microcosm of most points, i.e., (1) I know what I'm talking about, why don't you? and (2) if my accuracy is challenged, I'll change the question.

 

[longtimefan]

Had to chuckle at the Rogers/1st round discussion. Microcosm of most points, i.e., (1) I know what I'm talking about, why don't you? and (2) if my accuracy is challenged, I'll change the question.

Question was lined up with. Correct? Yes.. If Amish wanted to say start, he should have stated it

But he did start one game with Rodgers. So challenged was accepted and proven.

So I'll chuckle along with you as I was right.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Welcome to Green Bay! Rookie class 2019!

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[longtimefan]

If true, that was a miscalculation on Philbins part as well as a waste of a good opportunity by the Packer organization to get some valuable real game reps in for players that not only needed it, but could benefit the team in the future from it.

Sure, I know, nobody wants to see backups play in regular season games, even when their team has been eliminated. However, as a fan, I would have totally welcomed giving the backups more real time work, to better the team in the future. For some reason its fine in sports like baseball, basketball and hockey, but not in the NFL. Maybe due to having just 16 game seasons?

Maybe those sports rely on more individual talents?

Baseball backups, hitting, fielding and catching for the most part at major league level is prob pretty good.

Basketball, the basics should be good to..

Where in football you need to grasp the pkaybook, timing with qb, OL, other Def players etc.

Way to much going on in football then others?

If that makes sense?

 

[OldSchool101]

Trivia time.

How many 1st round draft picks has Rodgers lined up with on offense?


Got this on local sports radio.

I’m going to guess 1. Brian Bulaga. I didn’t look up before his tenure but I did the math last year on all 1st and 2nd day picks since 2008. I think it was 1?
I didn’t cheat though



Oh yeah I’m seeing now Sherrod forgot about him.
Is it 2? I’m too lazy and if I go that far my OCDness will make me go all the way

 

[GleefulGary]

Question was lined up with .. Not starting

You don't recall?

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Oh my bad! Thought it was starting.

I've pretty much blocked Sherrod's career from my memory.

 

[AmishMafia]

WRONG!!!


Its 5.



Sherrod
Bulaga
Benson (thanks I forgot this one)

And


BJ Raji and Julius Peppers.

I remember Raji but do not recall Peppers taking an offensive snap.

 

[longtimefan]

WRONG!!!


Its 5.



Sherrod
Bulaga
Benson (thanks I forgot this one)

And


BJ Raji and Julius Peppers.

I remember Raji but do not recall Peppers taking an offensive snap.

U trickster!

 

[OldSchool101]

WRONG!!!


Its 5.



Sherrod
Bulaga
Benson (thanks I forgot this one)

And


BJ Raji and Julius Peppers.

I remember Raji but do not recall Peppers.

Wow. I can’t believe I forgot Raji

Using recent draft calculator by “CalculatorSoup”
Starting in 2008-2019 (Rodgers 1st year as a starter)

the GB Packers have spent 11,022 Draft Points on the Defensive side

the GB Packers have spent 5595 Draft Points on Offense.

There was a special teams or two (JK Scott) I didn’t include and rounded those late rounder points so it’s approximate within 20 points or so

Almost exactly double the resources were spent on Defense vs Offense going back 12 drafts

 

[AmishMafia]

Wow. I can’t believe I forgot Raji

Using recent draft calculator by “CalculatorSoup”
Starting in 2008-2019 (Rodgers 1st year as a starter)

the GB Packers have spent 11,022 Draft Points on the Defensive side

the GB Packers have spent 5595 Draft Points on Offense.

There was a special teams or two (JK Scott) I didn’t include and rounded those late rounder points so it’s approximate within 20 points or so

Almost exactly double the resources were spent on Defense vs Offense going back 12 drafts

Well, as there are 2 defensive and 2 offensive Packer 1st rounders to play with Rodgers, there is really no point in targeting offensive players in the first.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Maybe those sports rely on more individual talents?

Baseball backups, hitting, fielding and catching for the most part at major league level is prob pretty good.

Basketball, the basics should be good to..

Where in football you need to grasp the pkaybook, timing with qb, OL, other Def players etc.

Way to much going on in football then others?

If that makes sense?

Well considering Rookies get a lot of playing time in the preseason, I doubt the above factors that much into giving them an equal amount of time at the end of a season when your team has been eliminated from the playoffs. I still think some of it has to do with the number of games on the schedule. With the NFL having so few in comparison to the other major sports, fans might take offense to "preseason like" play at the end of the season.

 

[rmontro]

Rodgers was the last offensive player, non-lineman, that the Packers selected in Round 1.

Wow, that's amazing. We must have had a lot of frigging spectacular defenses since then, probably the best in the league! Right? ....Right, guys?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Wow, that's amazing. We must have had a lot of frigging spectacular defenses since then, probably the best in the league! Right? ....Right, guys?

Well yes, we did, except for the fact that TT was picking the talent in the last half of that time period and Capers was coaching them, so they were able to effectively neutralize all of that draft capital pumped into the defense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I remember Raji but do not recall Peppers taking an offensive snap.

How is it possible to forget about that dandy???

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000418299/Rodgers-throws-to-Julius-Peppers

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

How is it possible to forget about that dandy???

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000418299/Rodgers-throws-to-Julius-Peppers

Yup and I still pretty much consider Bulaga the only #1 pick on offense that Rodgers has spent any significant time playing with since he was drafted in 2005.

I could be wrong, but you might have to also include Javon Walker and Bubba Franks as first round picks that Rodgers "lined up with". They were both Packers during Rodgers time, just not sure if they had any snaps with Rodgers in a regular season game.

 

[Mondio]

I get the draft capital argument. but using our situation is also all the ammo you need to argue that it doesn't matter a whole lot. All these 1st round picks on defense vs offense and what has it done for our defense? This idea that spending those picks on offense would mean Rodgers had more to work with is everything but a guarantee as we've found out with the defense.

On the flip side, though high picks weren't used, outside of last year and this, you're going to be very hard pressed to try and make an argument that Rodgers didn't have plenty of quality offensive guys to line up with. From the linemen protecting him to the guys catching passes, no matter the round, there has been plenty to work with in the past decade plus on that side of the ball and most were 2nd round or much later. once your drafted, the slotting means nothing in the NFL, and many of those guys could play and did very well. a couple still are for us.

 

[longtimefan]

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"Grading" starts at 40:47.
I respect a lot of this guy's work, and for those upset about the Gary pick (I was one til I gave it more thought) he nails how GB should and probably will use him to make him a star.

@Sunshinepacker

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Ever since Rodgers was drafted, the Packers have been pretty fortunate with their draft selections on the offensive side of the ball. Besides Bulaga, they have basically built and maintained their offensive line with mid picks, FA's and UDFA's. Solid to great wide receivers with 2nd and 3rd round picks. Running backs and TE's have been all over the board.

While I haven't put a chart together, my gut reaction would be to say that the offense has been able to do more with the limited draft and F/A capital spent on it, than the defense has with a lot more resources being pumped into it. This could be attributed to a number of things and probably a combination of all of them:

• Luck
• Scouting
• Aaron Rodgers
• Coaching
• TT

 

[Sunshinepacker]

@Sunshinepacker

Haven't had time to listen to the whole thing but my initial thought is that the 12th overall pick in the NFL draft's value shouldn't be that a guy can line up at end, slant into a guard, not get pressure, and open a hole for a blitzing linebacker. The 12th pick should be a guy that can rush the passer, demand a double team (while still pressuring the QB) and open a hole in the oline for the blitzing linebacker solely by being so dominant that there isn't anyone left to block the linebacker.

And the "F up the play" stat is always brought up for guys trying to defend lack of production. The problem with that is that ALL of the first round edge rushers accomplished that same thing but with the added value of pressuring the QB. You don't think Jerry Tillery F'd up a lot of plays? Or Montez Sweat? Brian Burns? Jeffrey Simmons?

The Packers drafted Gary based on his ceiling which is really, really high. I'm not personally a fan of drafting based on physical ability (at least that high in the draft), I can at least understand their reasoning. Much of the recent analysis smacks of mental gymnastics as people try to justify the pick with other reasons; just admit it's a bet that the team thinks their coaches can finally teach Gary to better use his physical skills.

As for the rest of the draft, I love the Savage pick and the Jace pick, the rest all seem to address needs or add overall talent. Overall I thought it was a good draft, I just think Gary was a bit of a reach.