OFFICIAL Mike McCarthy Took Back Play callin

[PackerfaninCarolina]

To be fair, Mike McCarthy has never been a guy to throw any of his players under the bus that I've ever seen. Never did it before and likely not going to do it now.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid this year he's been a little bit too patient with Clements running the show, probably hopes he starts to latch on to a better way of doing it. I'm afraid that's going to doom this team badly though if it's not righted.

It sucks, I have not come into a week of football feeling this pessimistic about an upcoming game in a long time. Just about any year I can remember especially since our superbowl year, always felt this team had the competitiveness to whoop on anyone and everyone. But I have absolutely no faith in Clements's play calling abilities at all. He just reaks to high heaven and is ruining this team.

 

[Dieseljunkie12]

Will a new OC prevent Rodgers from over throwing, or tossing ion the ground?

Been a while since I have posted because my opinions get ridiculed but perhaps our leader who is supposed to......i dont know be a leader shouldn't have such a puppet attutide. his quote of everything is fine with the offense just aggravates me. im thinking if our mvp qb starts saying that something needs to change mm and tt will perhaps listen

 

[Packerlifer]

6 degrees of separation? what was Rogers talking about?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.co...-prejudiced-comment-during-moment-of-silence/

 

[melvin dangerr]

http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...uestions/bec337c8-6b5e-4f3d-82f0-fa14cb7feb88

Sounded like MM was putting a lot of butter on burnt toast....

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Losing at home against a 1-7 team that defensively has struggled all year. This offense obviously needs a shake-up right and the time is NOW. How do you do that? The norm with many teams is change the QB. Well that isn't an option in GB and would be suicidal and ludicrous. So IMO, the only thing available to try and shock a lifeless pulseless offense is to put MM back in charge of play calling. This is virtually the same offense (less Jordy) that rarely struggled with MM calling the plays. For whatever reasons, they are totally under achieving with Clements in charge. Is it lack of confidence, predictability, or lack of creative play calling that has the offense looking totally disheveled? Not really sure, but this isn't about firing an OC more then it is putting the guy who had success back in charge. A move that just might give the players the confidence that they are so obviously lacking right now.

 

[PackerfaninCarolina]

Losing at home against a 1-7 team that defensively has struggled all year. This offense obviously needs a shake-up right and the time is NOW. How do you do that? The norm with many teams is change the QB. Well that isn't an option in GB and would be suicidal and ludicrous. So IMO, the only thing available to try and shock a lifeless pulseless offense is to put MM back in charge of play calling. This is virtually the same offense (less Jordy) that rarely struggled with MM calling the plays. For whatever reasons, they are totally under achieving with Clements in charge. Is it lack of confidence, predictability, or lack of creative play calling that has the offense looking totally disheveled? Not really sure, but this isn't about firing an OC more then it is putting the guy who had success back in charge. A move that just might give the players the confidence that they are so obviously lacking right now.

Yeah that's exactly it. Players just seem to be in unknown territory right now and don't seem to be answering the bell at all. In the past, hey we always expected losses but it always seemed something was done differently the following week and there was not this element of predictability that just seems to be plaguing this team like lice right now.

I've just always known this team when circumstances got bad out there to answer the bell, this year they have not.

It's one thing to lose 3 in a row because Rodgers is out, like we did in 2013. It's a complete other to see things like this playing out which I have not seen since 2008, Rodgers' first year. And our O did not struggle that year to the degree it has this year. Idk, I just feel like this O has lost its identity and if the running game isn't working, we need to get back to manufacturing a version of it in the passing game.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

TT let the trade deadline pass without trying to upgrade any position of need. So here we are with a talented team spiraling downward after losing at home against a team that was suppose to be "meat" to replenish and invigorate the beast in GB. All we were served was another plate of humble pie and I'm not even sure if the coaches or players are hungry. The team, especially on offense looks like they are playing scared. Playing without confidence and playing not to lose. The opposing defenses, look like they are reading our playbook before each play, knowing where and when to blitz and who the primary receivers will be. Time to drop this "all is fine, we just need to eliminate some mistakes BS" and shake things up with a change of leadership at OC.

 

[yooperpackfan]

I'm sure McCarthy would like to light a fire under this team, but from the looks of him on the sideline he has a pocket full of wet matches.

 

[Vrill]

Its not as simple as Tom Clements play calling. We'd be seeing similar results with Coach McCarthy calling the plays. Its not coaching, its the players. Our OL is having issues pass protecting Rodgers. Defenses are squatting on the short to intermediate routes of our WR's because its now known that our WR's aren't getting any separation. Defenses are pretty much keeping Rodgers in the pocket and playing man to man bump defense against our slow WR's who cannot get open. The last few defenses have played our offense the same exact way.

Couple all of this with a complete lack of run game (Lacy not being Lacy and our OL not opening any run game holes) and the problem only compounds itself.

Its not a coaching issue. Its a personnel issue. We have some players on offense right now that have regressed for whatever reason this year. Lacy is one and then some players along our OL have too. Cobb doesn't even look like Cobb either.

Its always easy to blame coaching in these situations.

In short, we don't have a true #1 WR this season in which defenses need to pay special attention to. You can say well, look at the Patriots. But they have Gronk in which defenses have to gameplan around. We don't even have a TE worth a crap to do that. We have nobody on offense that scares a defense. Randall Cobb is only as good as our #1 target is. Cobb isn't a true #1. Hes a #2 and not to mention, hes a slot guy and not a boundary guy.

So in the offseason, we need to bring in a true #1 playmaker on offense and it doesn't really matter if that guy is a WR or a TE. Jordy is a great player and he is a #1 kind of guy, but even WITH Jordy it would be nice to have another legit threat out there.

 

[longtimefan]

Its not as simple as Tom Clements play calling. We'd be seeing similar results with Coach McCarthy calling the plays. Its not coaching, its the players. Our OL is having issues pass protecting Rodgers. Defenses are squatting on the short to intermediate routes of our WR's because its now known that our WR's aren't getting any separation. Defenses are pretty much keeping Rodgers in the pocket and playing man to man bump defense against our slow WR's who cannot get open. The last few defenses have played our offense the same exact way.

Couple all of this with a complete lack of run game (Lacy not being Lacy and our OL not opening any run game holes) and the problem only compounds itself.

Its not a coaching issue. Its a personnel issue. We have some players on offense right now that have regressed for whatever reason this year. Lacy is one and then some players along our OL have too. Cobb doesn't even look like Cobb either.

Its always easy to blame coaching in these situations.

In short, we don't have a true #1 WR this season in which defenses need to pay special attention to. You can say well, look at the Patriots. But they have Gronk in which defenses have to gameplan around. We don't even have a TE worth a crap to do that. We have nobody on offense that scares a defense. Randall Cobb is only as good as our #1 target is. Cobb isn't a true #1. Hes a #2 and not to mention, hes a slot guy and not a boundary guy.

So in the offseason, we need to bring in a true #1 playmaker on offense and it doesn't really matter if that guy is a WR or a TE. Jordy is a great player and he is a #1 kind of guy, but even WITH Jordy it would be nice to have another legit threat out there.

Finally a common sense, logical approach to the issue..

 

[Mondio]

Its not as simple as Tom Clements play calling. We'd be seeing similar results with Coach McCarthy calling the plays. Its not coaching, its the players. Our OL is having issues pass protecting Rodgers. Defenses are squatting on the short to intermediate routes of our WR's because its now known that our WR's aren't getting any separation. Defenses are pretty much keeping Rodgers in the pocket and playing man to man bump defense against our slow WR's who cannot get open. The last few defenses have played our offense the same exact way.

Couple all of this with a complete lack of run game (Lacy not being Lacy and our OL not opening any run game holes) and the problem only compounds itself.

Its not a coaching issue. Its a personnel issue. We have some players on offense right now that have regressed for whatever reason this year. Lacy is one and then some players along our OL have too. Cobb doesn't even look like Cobb either.

Its always easy to blame coaching in these situations.

In short, we don't have a true #1 WR this season in which defenses need to pay special attention to. You can say well, look at the Patriots. But they have Gronk in which defenses have to gameplan around. We don't even have a TE worth a crap to do that. We have nobody on offense that scares a defense. Randall Cobb is only as good as our #1 target is. Cobb isn't a true #1. Hes a #2 and not to mention, hes a slot guy and not a boundary guy.

So in the offseason, we need to bring in a true #1 playmaker on offense and it doesn't really matter if that guy is a WR or a TE. Jordy is a great player and he is a #1 kind of guy, but even WITH Jordy it would be nice to have another legit threat out there.

Exactly. It starts up front, if you can't block well enough to run on 6 and your previous stud RB has barely seen the field this year, your run game will suffer. and when you can't run on 6 in the box you better be able to pass, but we haven't been able to stop an A gap blitz all year and our tackles haven't stopped an outside rush either. Now our previously very cool and collected QB is now anything but. He used to always move and keep eyes down field, now he doesn't. I can't blame him, he's been getting hammered repreatedly from all over the place. Up the middle from the right and left and every position along the line. I'd probably be wary of it too.

So now we have an Oline, that has greatly affected passing and running game and toss on top of that receivers that aren't catching the ball either. They've had games like this in the past, where things just didn't work right, but now we're looking at like 5 weeks in a row. It's no longer an blip, it's becoming the norm. We are not getting good production from any skill position and everyone says it's coaching, maybe it is, but these are the same guys that had this team playing like a super bowl contender year after year. I guess if our Receivers can forget how to run a route and get open and our QB forgets how to play the position and our RB's just forget how to be a RB our coaches can just forget how to coach, despite being very good for a lot of years.

I've always been critical of our oline and Campen as a coach. They shut me up the 2nd half of last year. It's starting to look like that was just a blip because we've been bad at that group more than we've been good. For a long time, Rodgers made them look far better than they were, at least in my opinion. This year he's not and it really shows how bad they are. Will they get it together? They looked a bit better yesterday in pass blocking, but then again it was the lions and they still couldn't stop the pressure when they sent it up the middle.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I totally agree with your evaluation of the offense at this point in the season Vrill. The loss of Jordy hurt more then most thought it would. Injuries to Adams and Montgomery have not helped to try and establish a suitable replacement. TT's over confidence in Richard Rodgers abilities and his stubbornness to sign a FA TE haven't helped either.

However, I am commenting more on moving ahead, saving this season, not what we need to do to address the personnel issues in the off season, the defense has its share of those as well. So you are correct, the Packer offense is lacking a #1 weapon, but IMO it has also become extremely predictable because of it. That issue falls on the shoulders of the OC. He needs to adjust the schemes more and not stand on the sideline saying "I don't get it, this stuff used to work in the past, we just need to improve". If Clements can't make adjustments to the offense to win with the players he has, then MM should, because right now it looks like the opposing defenses are lining up on each play, knowing exactly what the Packers are about to do.

 

[Vrill]

I feel like if our run game was clicking right now, that we'd be doing fine, but its not. There is a lot of pressure on Rodgers right now because hes trying to do everything alone and maybe a bit too much. Hes being harassed non-stop due to crappy pass protection and couple that with WR's not getting open and dropping balls, and the lack of a run game, and you get what we have been seeing lately.

We are seeing a complete breakdown of our offense.

We MUST use our first rounder this next draft on a TE or a WR. We need a difference maker.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I was so hoping to put our 2 loses behind us as "road games against pumped up undefeated teams" and not a true barometer of where the team is at. Sadly, yesterdays game proved to many of us what we feared, the Defense is average and there is something drastically wrong with the offense. Maybe MM has the same results as play caller, but IMO it's about the only move available at this point in the season to try and light a fire under a team that to a man (especially on offense) is currently playing below their abilities.

 

[Mondio]

I totally agree with your evaluation of the offense at this point in the season Vrill. The loss of Jordy hurt more then most thought it would. Injuries to Adams and Montgomery have not helped to try and establish a suitable replacement. TT's over confidence in Richard Rodgers abilities and his stubbornness to sign a FA TE haven't helped either.

However, I am commenting more on moving ahead, saving this season, not what we need to do to address the personnel issues in the off season, the defense has its share of those as well. So you are correct, the Packer offense is lacking a #1 weapon, but IMO it has also become extremely predictable because of it. That issue falls on the shoulders of the OC. He needs to adjust the schemes more and not stand on the sideline saying "I don't get it, this stuff used to work in the past, we just need to improve". If Clements can't make adjustments to the offense to win with the players he has, then MM should, because right now it looks like the opposing defenses are lining up on each play, knowing exactly what the Packers are about to do.

Like Vernon Davis who has started the world on fire for Denver offense with his 2 catches, so much so, they've lost 2 in a row since they signed him and benched their starting QB

I fully realize i just made a crazy statement that was nothing but a knee jerk reaction and a lot can change by the end of the season, but that seems to be the norm around here

But outside TT's "stubbornness" to sign a FA TE, how is changing the play caller going to make WR catch better? Adams dropped a huge play, HUGE. we would have had the ball inside the 10 I think and it was placed perfectly in his hands. How does changing the play caller keep Cobb's eyes on the ball and he catches that 1st down and probably goes for a TD instead of dropping the easy catch and run and we end up punting? How does the play caller call a better play? How does the play caller keep our MVP QB from throwing it in the dirt at an open receiver?

I wish someone would answer those questions. I haven't seen a single one yet, but pages of "Fire the OC" keep coming. So tell us how it changes that? Those are just a handful of plays, we could dissect it more, or even go back to last week. How does an OC make the offensive line stop an A gap rush and allow Rodgers to see a wide open Cobb in the endzone?

I can plainly see that things aren't working well, now is the time for everyone screaming to fire someone, to tell us why it's going to change everything for the better.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

McCarthy coming back won't fix much. Great article on CNNSI from Doug Farrar mentioned that the Packer's offense isn't much different this year than it was last year. The offense continues to rely on slow-developing, down the field iso routes from receivers and, the worst part, the Packers offense is about as unimaginative as can be. The Packers run 11 personnel (1 TE, 1 RB, 3 WRs) on 76+% of offensive plays and the league average is about 55%. The offensive play calling does nothing that modern offenses (like the Pats) do to help receivers get open and that's not a new thing. Rodgers, Nelson and Cobb have been enough to overcome that in the past but right now the offense is getting exposed.

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/11/10/all-22-aaron-rodgers-packers-mike-mccarthy

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Like Vernon Davis who has started the world on fire for Denver offense with his 2 catches, so much so, they've lost 2 in a row since they signed him and benched their starting QB

I fully realize i just made a crazy statement that was nothing but a knee jerk reaction and a lot can change by the end of the season, but that seems to be the norm around here

But outside TT's "stubbornness" to sign a FA TE, how is changing the play caller going to make WR catch better? Adams dropped a huge play, HUGE. we would have had the ball inside the 10 I think and it was placed perfectly in his hands. How does changing the play caller keep Cobb's eyes on the ball and he catches that 1st down and probably goes for a TD instead of dropping the easy catch and run and we end up punting? How does the play caller call a better play? How does the play caller keep our MVP QB from throwing it in the dirt at an open receiver?

I wish someone would answer those questions. I haven't seen a single one yet, but pages of "Fire the OC" keep coming. So tell us how it changes that? Those are just a handful of plays, we could dissect it more, or even go back to last week. How does an OC make the offensive line stop an A gap rush and allow Rodgers to see a wide open Cobb in the endzone?

I can plainly see that things aren't working well, now is the time for everyone screaming to fire someone, to tell us why it's going to change everything for the better.

Play caller could actually run some routes that involve rubbing a defender or stacking receivers at the snap to make the defense's job harder.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Like Vernon Davis who has started the world on fire for Denver offense with his 2 catches, so much so, they've lost 2 in a row since they signed him and benched their starting QB

I wasn't pointing just to not signing someone like Davis, I was referring more to starting the season with R Rodgers and Quarles as your go to TE's. How Davis would have worked in GB isn't as easy as saying "In Denver he has done this".

I wish someone would answer those questions. I haven't seen a single one yet, but pages of "Fire the OC" keep coming. So tell us how it changes that? .

When your offense as a whole is playing below their collective abilities, something isn't right. As you say, we are seeing missed assignment, dropped passes, etc. When its one or two players, you look at them individually, but in this situation it seems like the whole offense is playing without emotion or intensity. I put that on coaching.

As I said, maybe putting MM back in charge of play calling won't change a thing, but at this point in the season it seems like the only match stick left to ignite a smoldering offense.

 

[Mondio]

it's easy to say coaching, but these are the same guys coaching and the the same guys playing that have lit the league on fire. Did they all just forget how to do it?

and does stacking the receiver keep Rodgers from throwing it in the dirt when he comes open? Does it keep him from overthrowing the receiver that has beaten his man? Does it keep the ball sticking in the hands of Adams who drops as many as he catches? Does it allow a wide open Cobb to actually catch the ball and get that first down and probably TD? How does stacking the WR's do that?

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

it's easy to say coaching, but these are the same guys coaching and the the same guys playing that have lit the league on fire. Did they all just forget how to do it?

Clements wasn't in charge of play calling before this year, so that is the one variable that has changed. So maybe under Clements these same guys (less Jordy) aren't firing on all cylinders. Only MM and TT probably really know if that change could be the key to the equation. On the surface, it doesn't seem logical that it is, since Clements has been in the system and appears to be using the same play book that MM used, but something isn't right. Hard to point the finger at 11 players and easier to point it at one coach I realize, but that coach is in charge of getting those 11 players prepared to play a full game each week and as of now, it doesn't seem like Clements is doing this.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

it's easy to say coaching, but these are the same guys coaching and the the same guys playing that have lit the league on fire. Did they all just forget how to do it?

and does stacking the receiver keep Rodgers from throwing it in the dirt when he comes open? Does it keep him from overthrowing the receiver that has beaten his man? Does it keep the ball sticking in the hands of Adams who drops as many as he catches? Does it allow a wide open Cobb to actually catch the ball and get that first down and probably TD? How does stacking the WR's do that?

Read the article link I posted above. Scheming receivers open allows for easier throws and easier catches. It's harder to catch a ball when the corner can tip the ball just as it gets to the receiver (see two point conversion vs Lions).

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Clements wasn't in charge of play calling before this year, so that is the one variable that has changed. So maybe under Clements these same guys (less Jordy) aren't firing on all cylinders. Only MM and TT probably really know if that change could be the key to the equation. On the surface, it doesn't seem logical that it is, since Clements has been in the system and appears to be using the same play book that MM used, but something isn't right. Hard to point the finger at 11 players and easier to point it at one coach I realize, but that coach is in charge of getting those 11 players prepared to play a full game each week and as of now, it doesn't seem like Clements is doing this.

You missed the Nelson being out for the year variable.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

You missed the Nelson being out for the year variable.

Clements wasn't in charge of play calling before this year, so that is the one variable that has changed. So maybe under Clements these same guys (less Jordy) aren't firing on all cylinders.

Where?

I agree that the loss of Jordy was huge and have said that from day 1, but that doesn't give Clements (or TT) a pass for not adapting.

 

[Mondio]

Read the article link I posted above. Scheming receivers open allows for easier throws and easier catches. It's harder to catch a ball when the corner can tip the ball just as it gets to the receiver (see two point conversion vs Lions).

i saw the 2 point conversion, Rodgers had a guy in his face putting a hit on him, the ball was short by a bit and was still a very, very catchable ball by NFL receivers standards. But beyond that. Cobb was open, as open as you can be for a 1st down minimum and possible scoring play. You can't expect a receiver to get more open than that. He missed it. No DB's tipped it when Rodgers threw it in the dirt to open receivers on at least 2 or 3 occassions yesterday. On a long ball, a step, heck even a half stop is all the receiver needs and all they usually get, and they didn't tip anything when Rodgers over threw them or when Adams had it land right in his hands and drop it

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Short of an undisclosed injury or personal problems, what has a FHOF QB playing so poorly? Why has a fully returning veteran O-line played like rookies? What has caused receivers to look lackluster in their route running and drop balls? Before his injury, why did Eddie Lacy look like a 500 lb man trying to find a hole? These are the answers MM and staff must figure out and the clock is ticking fast on this season. Me, I'm going to go back to my theory of there are only a few matches left in the 2015 season and the one match that may spark things is changing up the Play Caller, because something as a whole isn't right on offense right now.