Jason Edens
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If Miami would let him go I think that is a great idea, Arizona already ate the majority of his cap hit so he would be a cheap pick up and has a 5th year option.
Next QB?
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If Miami would let him go I think that is a great idea, Arizona already ate the majority of his cap hit so he would be a cheap pick up and has a 5th year option.
I agree, although I imagine the CBA contract limiting practice time is a factor in this. Still, other teams have had backups come in and perform at a decent level. I suppose those teams are not as reliant on their quarterback as we are, but we're probably less vulnerable in that respect under MLF than we were under McCarthy.
With the talent on this team (and some gaps), the focus should remain winning another SB (or two?) while #12 is still playing. Best not to waste even a late draft pick on a QB. Truth is, if Rodgers goes down so does the team. We’re not as lucky as NO was this year to have Teddy Bridgewater as a backup, and that’ll probably change this year anyway. Nick Foles didn’t last long in Philly.
No I’d rather see Gluten address the obvious needs at #2 WR and ILB first. The DL needs some depth to keep bringing in fresh guys and hopefully improve the dreadful run D. These would be my priorities, for what that’s worth.
Jason Edens
Cheesehead
I agree with you for the most part, but it wasn't luck that Teddy Bridgewater was there as a backup. It was a shrewd move to back up an aging Drew Brees and not have a whole season go down the drain if he gets injured. If Hundly was NO backup, they would have lost 4 of the 5 games they won I suspect. I suspect his cash value increases to the point where he doesn't stay in NO. We may have made a good move getting Kizer, hopefully we don't find out for several more years.
I completely agree that this is not the year to find a replacement QB in the draft, we are in win now mode, but if someone slips like Rodgers did while we were in win now mode I think you take the QB. That isn't going to happen in today's NFL. ILB and WR need adressed and this draft is really good for WRs. Taking a flier with a 6th round pick on a QB wouldn't upset me, but I think we need to address the Special Teams and the late rounds are good for that.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Kizer was cut before the season started, the Raiders picked him up. Tim Boyle is our current #2 QB.
I agree with HeyJoe4, the Packers will live or die by Rodgers. That is unless they really improve the offense. While I would love to have a vet QB with starting experience behind Rodgers, given their other more pressing needs, I don't think that is a luxury that the Packers can afford.
Jason Edens
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Jeez, I didn't even notice that. Shows how much attention I pay to the preseason cuts. I normally just watch for major injuries during the preseason of football, and prepare for fantasy football. His stats were certainly horrible playing in relief for us but I thought maybe he could develop since he was so young at the time. Yeah we don't have the luxury of signing a veteran back up for the forseeable future. I guess the staff sees something in Boyle they like.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Kizer is a good example of how hard it can be to find a quality starting QB in the draft in any given year. Despite being thought of by some as the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the 2017 draft, he lasted until pick #52 in the 2nd round. Trubisky (#2), Mahomes (#10) and Watson (#12) were drafted ahead of him. I would say that the Browns wasted a 2nd round pick, the good news for them, none of the other QB's selected after him amounted to much. It would appear that Mahomes and Watson are the only 2 really good QB's to come out of that draft.
Of course in all fairness to the Browns, the Packers pretty much wasted one of their 2nd round picks that draft too, by choosing Josh Jones with the 61st pick of the draft.
Of course in all fairness to the Browns, the Packers pretty much wasted one of their 2nd round picks that draft too, by choosing Josh Jones with the 61st pick of the draft.
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melvin dangerr
In it to Win it All
Let’s see what happens at the end of this season, if Rodgers has the weapons and he does poorly with them OK, let’s have this discussion, but until then Pffft this...
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Deleted member 6794
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The Packers should focus on improving the team around Rodgers to have a realistic chance on winning another Super Bowl while still having the benefit of a future HOF quarterback starting. They can shift to finding his successor once it becomes obvious the championship window is closed.
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HardRightEdge
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I would strike the word "only" from that sentence. If two "really good" QBs came out of each draft, there would be 19 really good QBs + Luck with 10 or less years of experience in the league. Pointing to 10 from the last 10 drafts, guys you'd be comfortable in saying they could get to a Super Bowl under the right conditions, would be stretch.
In short, it is not just hard to find a winning QB. It is very, very hard.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
I guess it depends on how you define "really good" and how that stands up over their career. Who knows how either of those QB's will be playing in 5 years.
Also, not sure if i would use "could get to a Super Bowl under the right conditions" as a measuring stick of defining just how good a QB is. There have been great QB's that only have gotten to one or none.
All semantics and at the end of it, I think we are both on the same page. That page being, Packer fans need to prepare themselves for the possibility that it may take years to find another QB like the 2 that we have seen over the last 23 or so years.
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HardRightEdge
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It's concerning when a team bails on their QB of the future after one season. You could stretch and chalk it up to a bad fit, bad chemistry with the coaches, impatience. When a second team going nowhere chooses to bench that guy in favor of Ryan Fitzpatrick rather than keep playing him in developmental mode you should conclude that something is seriously wrong.
Just about any QB that makes a roster, and certainly any first rounder, has sufficient physical tools to succeed. What separates them is they're ability to absorb concepts and quickly process the field. The college game is simpler and slower. It's reasonable to believe that Rosen's mind us not up to the more complex, and especially the faster, NFL game.
I wouldn't give up a 4th. round pick for him. I wouldn't give up anything for him. I wouldn't assume his $2 mil cap number. I'd regard him as bust and a camp body with an far outside chance to prove those first two teams wrong.
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GreenNGold_81
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Rosen was passed over in Arizona because they had the unique opportunity to take the best qb prospect in college football. They were also a complete dumpster fire of a team his first year with them with an incompetent offensive coordinator who was fired well into the season. What's happened in Miami? That I don't know. Rosens wonderlic score was above average so you'd have to assume that with time the game should slow down for him. That could be the team slow playing his development with another new playbook in front of him (they also were a dumpster fire to start the season). Miami also has an opportunity to take a bluechip qb prospect this year (and probably should). Giving up a 4th for a roll of the dice on a kid who had 1st round pedigree I think is reasonable.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
I think it was more than that. If they thought Rosen was a future solid starter, they would have been smarter to pass on Murray, traded back to a team that wanted him or just taken Bosa.
Rosen reminds me a bit of DeShon Kizer, gets drafted by an organization that is in a "we need you to play well now" mode, gets rushed into surviving the system instead of learning it and fails. Then he gets traded to the Dolphins and the same story.
Maybe Rosen has no future in the NFL, maybe he does. But if the Dolphins are wiling to dump him for a mid to late round pick, that is 2 consecutive teams that invested in him and dropped him like a hot potato, major red flag.
As far as the Packers trading a pick for him, as well as investing $5M over the next 2 years, they would have to really like the potential of him. However, I doubt they know half of what the 2 teams that have worked with him know about him and are 2 teams that wrong on a guy taken top 10 in the draft?
This article is a pretty decent read on it, not that it answers any questions on his future.
https://dolphinswire.usatoday.com/2...olphins-do-with-qb-josh-rosen-this-offseason/
GreenNGold_81
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Good read. Again, we're talking about a 4th rounder. If it pans out it's a steal, nobody would be expecting him to start for two+ years unless Rodgers gets injured.
Getting back to Arizona trading Rosen, it was pretty well established that Kingsbury wanted Kyler to run his system (which they didn't end up successfully implementing).
https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/...y-seven-year-recruitment-kyler-murray-pay-off
Sunshinepacker
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Just as a follow up to what you've said, yes, he's played on really bad teams but you also have to take into account that he's been historically bad on those two teams and that while MLF is supposed to be an offensive genius, his ability to mold QBs is, at best, indeterminate.
I mean, looking at Rosen's rookie season, his numbers were just awful. Of rookies who attempted at least 100 passes in the last decade, Rosen was, 7th worst in net yards per attempt and only Blake Bortles took more sacks (link to that data is at the end). He's about as mobile as Tom Brady.
I'm not saying that the guy will certainly be a bust (but it's looking that way) but I am saying that trading anything other than a 6th/7th round pick would probably be a waste of a pick and cap space.
https://www.pro-football-reference....er_by=pass_adj_net_yds_per_att&order_by_asc=Y
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
When you look at the draft pick it would take to acquire him (if it was a 4th or later), that wouldn't bother me so much. What would bother me is the $5M over 2 years and the high probability that you waste a lot of time and coaching effort trying to coach the guy up. Which was why I mentioned Kizer. The Packers thought maybe they could coach him up, after he had been thrown into a bad situation in Cleveland. Turns out he just wasn't all that good/coachable.
If the Dolphins use their first pick on a QB, we know exactly what they think of Rosen and they might be lucky to get a 7th for him.
GreenNGold_81
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Even in that case if the Dolphins take a QB it could be them taking a flyer on a 5-year contract, getting two more years out of a (probably) better prospect. And just because we couldn't develop Kizer doesn't mean we should stop trying. Unless our team thinks they have the answer with Boyle. It's like, spend a 4th (or later) now and develop a guy who can maybe pan out. Or spend a 1st in a few years.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
There is your answer....in my opinion.
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HardRightEdge
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A bad Wonderlic score may be a disqualifier but a good one is no indication of how quickly and effectively an QB will process the field. It's a matter of spacial perception as much as the IQ intelligence which is what the Wonderlic tests.
Vince Young reportedly scored a 10. Answering the 50 questions randomly would score better than that more often than not. That kind of score indicates functional illiteracy. You definitely want to avoid guys like that. Lamar Jackson's 13 is something that may well come home to roost once teams figure out how to keep him in the pocket or when he busts up a knee and loses mobility. Of course he is the league MVP, for now. Don't count on it lasting.
On the other end of the spectrum, Josh Allen scored 37 vs. Rosen's 29, both pretty good. If Josh Allen wasn't such a good runner we might put him in the Rosen class. I watched enough Buffalo football to say, after two full seasons, Allen doesn't know what he's looking at way too often.
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HardRightEdge
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I spelled out my defintion of "really good", which was actually a watered down version of yours. As stated, about one QB per year on average comes out of the draft that one would be comfortable saying he could get a team to the Super Bowl under the right conditions. There's fewer than one per year who are true franchise QBs, the kind that carries a team for a few games per year.
Go ahead and scan down the following list and see if you can name a 10th. from the last 10 drafts. I would have said find an 11th. if Luck had not retired.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/player/_/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc
QBs are not like RBs who are usually shot after four or five years. Nearly every QB drafted in the last 20 years would be healthy enough to play. There are a few in the USFL at the moment trying to get back to the show. Quite a few are career backups. Quite a few more are selling insurance or whatnot.
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Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
Yup and you can go back each year and find pretty much the same thing, I went back to 2000, the year Brady was drafted. It's pretty much the same story as you go forward each year after that.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/stats/play...ontype/2/table/passing/sort/QBRating/dir/desc
Bottom line, The Packers made it look pretty easy and seamless getting back to back HOF QB's but really all a Packer fan has to do is look at the long drought between Bart Starr and Brett Favre, to know just what most of the other teams are dealing with. I know its probably coming again soon and I am not looking forward to it.
GreenNGold_81
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https://walterfootball.com/scoutingreport2018jrosen.php
This is an interesting read about Rosen. I've watched his highlight reel on youtube and his arm talent is legit. I do wonder about his personality and ability to lead this team though. I suppose if he really wants to be an NFL starting QB he would have been working on that part of being a teammate. Maybe things got off to a rough start for him in college. I dunno. From a low-risk high reward standpoint though I'd rather spend a late 4th now and see if Rodgers/LaFleur can mould this kid than a 1st later (unless it's a top 5 pick) on a QB. How well do you guys think Rodgers would have done thrown into the fire his first year, then traded to a cellar dweller? Maybe two years in our system gets that kid ready to be a starter. That way our first-round picks down the road can be used to bolster talent at other positions. And hey, maybe having a top college talent on the team will be enough to push Rodgers too.
This is an interesting read about Rosen. I've watched his highlight reel on youtube and his arm talent is legit. I do wonder about his personality and ability to lead this team though. I suppose if he really wants to be an NFL starting QB he would have been working on that part of being a teammate. Maybe things got off to a rough start for him in college. I dunno. From a low-risk high reward standpoint though I'd rather spend a late 4th now and see if Rodgers/LaFleur can mould this kid than a 1st later (unless it's a top 5 pick) on a QB. How well do you guys think Rodgers would have done thrown into the fire his first year, then traded to a cellar dweller? Maybe two years in our system gets that kid ready to be a starter. That way our first-round picks down the road can be used to bolster talent at other positions. And hey, maybe having a top college talent on the team will be enough to push Rodgers too.
Pokerbrat2000
Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.
I saw this and stopped reading.
"Player Comparison: Jay Cutler"
I am pretty sure that the Dolphins thought they were getting a deal, but for the Cardinals to just give up on a #10 pick (one year later) and settle for a #62 and a later year 5th round tells me a lot. Then the Dolphins bench him after 3 games, something besides his poor play is going on for 2 teams in rebuild mode to give up on him. I think those intangibles and locker room chemistry issues, that the scouting report talked about, are going to bite him anywhere he goes, even Green Bay. Sometimes sheer talent doesn't equate to a good player on the field.
Would it be AWESOME if he worked out in Green Bay and was the next Packer FHOF QB, sure, but how much are you willing to risk on Draft stock, cap space and ruining what sounds like great chemistry in the Packer Locker room? If he is toxic, I know one particular QB that probably won't want to have anything to do with him.
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HardRightEdge
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And there was Montana-to-Young. Even going from a pretty decent QB who made a couple of Pro Bowls to another like QB or better is also quite uncommon. There was Smith-to-Mahomes of recent vintage but I can't think of another case off hand going back quite some ways. Maybe Young-to-Garcia or Smith-to-Kaepernick, a lot of Smith and SF in there.
It's why this business of using a high pick to draft a Rodgers successor early is a mugs game. There is a high probability that the guy will either be a bust or end up getting traded away before he hits free agency as in the case of Garoppolo.
If Gutekunst, et. al., like some developmental guy from the 4th. round down I've got no problem with that. He took a punter out of the 5th. round so why the h*ll not?
McCarthy was quite excited about getting Kiser in exchange for a guy they wanted to get rid of. "First round talent" is what McCarthy called him. It's not that McCarthy is a uniquely poor judge of QB talent. The fact is nobody is a good judge of QB talent until they put the guy on an NFL field to find out. It's a crap shoot.
It may not be coming all that soon. It could be 5 years.
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