Lang calls out Rodgers

[Sunshinepacker]

you tell me what scheme is going to work when he continuously is passing up open receivers to go for the big play. and to go back to last year, you tell me what scheme gets him to see a wide open Randall Cobb in the endzone on a perfectly run play, right up to the point Rodgers didn't throw it to him? Tell us, we're all waiting

How about a scheme in which the receivers do something innovative? Like a stacked set, or consistent use of crossing route to rub corners? He could, and this is I admit a CRAZY idea, mix in a little more imagination than using 1/1 sets 80% of the time. Or, apparently in your version, Rodgers is actually playing far worse right now than Garropolo since the Pats managed to run a WAY better offense with much less talent. I happen to believe that the coaches job is to coach the team. So if you're right, and Rodgers has suddenly become a bad QB, then why isn't McCarthy coaching around that fact?

 

[Mondio]

I would t know, I haven't watched the Pats yet this year. I can't name the 2 teams they've played, and a lot of other things. I will say, if their qb isn't putting the ball on the ground 3-4 times a game, isn't throwing picks, and isn't continually overlooking open receivers and throwing incompletions to centered receivers, I would have to say whoever their qb was , played better than Rodgers last week.

Again, it's week 2 and this years issues are not last years. It's yet to be seen if they work thru them or not. I believe they can.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I would t know, I haven't watched the Pats yet this year. I can't name the 2 teams they've played, and a lot of other things. I will say, if their qb isn't putting the ball on the ground 3-4 times a game, isn't throwing picks, and isn't continually overlooking open receivers and throwing incompletions to centered receivers, I would have to say whoever their qb was , played better than Rodgers last week.

Again, it's week 2 and this years issues are not last years. It's yet to be seen if they work thru them or not. I believe they can.

Perhaps watching some other teams play football might help illustrate some of the offensive concepts that are used in the NFL today.

 

[Mondio]

Why? I can see things GB can do within their own to get much better. You do know the rest of the league plays against rub routes and stacked receivers and guys in motion every week right, and even with all of these other teams being so much better schematically than a perennial leader on offense, still only one team wins the super bowl every year.

 

[JK64]

I would t know, I haven't watched the Pats yet this year. I can't name the 2 teams they've played, and a lot of other things. I will say, if their qb isn't putting the ball on the ground 3-4 times a game, isn't throwing picks, and isn't continually overlooking open receivers and throwing incompletions to centered receivers, I would have to say whoever their qb was , played better than Rodgers last week.

Again, it's week 2 and this years issues are not last years. It's yet to be seen if they work thru them or not. I believe they can.

Not to mention no Gronk.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Why? I can see things GB can do within their own to get much better. You do know the rest of the league plays against rub routes and stacked receivers and guys in motion every week right, and even with all of these other teams being so much better schematically than a perennial leader on offense, still only one team wins the super bowl every year.

Because if you don't watch other teams, then how do you know how well the coaching staff is adapting? That's tantamount to only ever having eaten a peach and declaring it a terrific fruit...How do you know if you've never eaten a different fruit?

And the "only one team wins the Super Bowl" is one of the biggest cop outs in the NFL.

 

[Mondio]

Because if you don't watch other teams, then how do you know how well the coaching staff is adapting? That's tantamount to only ever having eaten a peach and declaring it a terrific fruit...How do you know if you've never eaten a different fruit?

And the "only one team wins the Super Bowl" is one of the biggest cop outs in the NFL.

You're right, because I don't make sure to watch steelers Patriots and packers every week to compare and contrast, I've never watched any other NFL game before. Stacking receivers is t new. Neither is a bunch formation. Pick plays have been around since I can remember. What should they run? WR screens, TE screens, RB screens? How about a jet sweep? And you're probably right, scrapping the offensive philosophy they've been working in, in favor of what every other team in the league is already doing will reply surprise people. GBs offense could never work, and yet the same players, in the same offense, coached by the same coaches playing against the same defense running plays from the same playbook put up 200 yards in a half compared to 60 in the prior. Offensive overhaul? Or better play within that system was the cause?

 

[OldSchool101]

I think that's an ill remark for an offensive lineman to make out of frustration. I think TJ Lang needs to work on TJ Lang. Then when he's done with that he can modify the QB position
I'm starting to get a picture of why this program has regressed

 

[HardRightEdge]

There's absolutely no doubt Rodgers play has regressed over the last 14 games.

Receivers are getting open but for some reason Rodgers doesn't throw their way. Here's a link to a story in which Eric Baranczyk analyzed several examples.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/baranczyk /2016/09/20/baranczyk-erratic-rodgers-far-mvp-form/90720516/



Absolutely true that Rodgers' mobility benefits the offensive line as well. Lang complained about the quarterback holding on to the ball too long making it tough for the OL to block for an eternity though. McCarthy and the coaching staff tried to force Rodgers to theow the ball within 2.5 seconds of the snap more often several camps ago to take pressure off the line. Only one of the sacks happened within that time frame on Sunday.



If only the coaching staff could get Rodgers to throw to those open receivers.

One minute it's that the receivers are not getting separation and Packers don't run enough combo routes to spring them. The next minute they are getting open because one guy writes a story about it.

Throwing off the back foot, passing up the easy throw for the big play, blowing through the 2.5 second bell, putting pressure on the O-Line are Rogers staples, always have been. If Nelson doesn't run the slant and Rodgers is not looking at him it's likely because Nelson is still working off the rust and they don't want to risk him in the danger zone quite yet.

By all appearances there is little doubt Rodgers is carrying a concerned look and lack of confidence on the field. He is not working through the progressions fast enough. He's staying with a target too long and missing a secondary opportunity.

Maybe his mind is on other things. His interview with Hawk displayed a wide-ranging numbers of interests including the infamous UFO incident. Maybe he's sensing his football mortality in the back half of his career and is thereby distracted. Maybe he's thinking more and doing more in preparation for his life after football and is thereby distracted. Maybe the pressure to get to a Super Bowl has him stuck in his own head.

Or maybe he just doesn't trust his receivers to be where he thinks they need to be. Or maybe despite an upgrade over sub-standard receiver performance last season he is just plain rusty. Practice is nice, but there's no substitute for game play against strangers to sharpen one's game.

Baranczyk doesn't know what the problem might be. Neither do you. Neither do I. We'll see where this little adventure takes us.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Perhaps watching some other teams play football might help illustrate some of the offensive concepts that are used in the NFL today.

Conveniently enough you get to watch other teams play football every week. They're the Packer's opponents.

 

[Packerlifer]

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...-vikings-playing-scared-reads-pocket-presence

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Very informative, but the article in itself claims it doesn't tell the full picture.

I still think the problems is not in Rodgers ability, but in the dynamic with O-Line and receivers....more importantly the game plan.

I guess Baranczyk meamt there were most likely other examples of Rodgers ignoring open receivers but because of not having access to the coaches film he can't be sure about it.

There's no doubt in my mond Rodgers still has the ability to be the best quarterback in the league. But for some reason only the coaches and players know about he has struggled for nearly an entire year. Hopefully the Packers figure out a way to get him out of his slump.

One minute it's that the receivers are not getting separation and Packers don't run enough combo routes to spring them. The next minute they are getting open because one guy writes a story about it.

There's no doubt receivers are getting more separation from defensive backs than last season. Unfortunateky Rodgers often doesn't throw their way.

That doesn't mean the coaching staff shouldn't incorporate combination routes to get the passing game back on track.

 

[Half Empty]

I think that's an ill remark for an offensive lineman to make out of frustration. I think TJ Lang needs to work on TJ Lang. Then when he's done with that he can modify the QB position
I'm starting to get a picture of why this program has regressed

I admit I don't follow all the guys to the same degree. What does Lang need to improve on?

 

[HardRightEdge]

I guess Baranczyk meamt there were most likely other examples of Rodgers ignoring open receivers but because of not having access to the coaches film he can't be sure about it.

Do you really want to make that rationalization? Assuming something you cannot see?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Conveniently enough you get to watch other teams play football every week. They're the Packer's opponents.

Touche. The Jaguars and Vikings are stellar examples of good offensive coaching...and up next is the well-coached Lions team!...with those comparisons it's no wonder some are convinced that McCarthy is Bill Walsh reborn...

 

[Sunshinepacker]

You're right, because I don't make sure to watch steelers Patriots and packers every week to compare and contrast, I've never watched any other NFL game before. Stacking receivers is t new. Neither is a bunch formation. Pick plays have been around since I can remember. What should they run? WR screens, TE screens, RB screens? How about a jet sweep? And you're probably right, scrapping the offensive philosophy they've been working in, in favor of what every other team in the league is already doing will reply surprise people. GBs offense could never work, and yet the same players, in the same offense, coached by the same coaches playing against the same defense running plays from the same playbook put up 200 yards in a half compared to 60 in the prior. Offensive overhaul? Or better play within that system was the cause?

You point to a half of football as a great indicator of the offense working...I point to a year of offensive disappointment. I think one of those samples is more indicative but to each his/her own I guess.

Don't worry though, the Packers get to play the Lions who are bad defensively in the best of times and are now missing some of their best defensive players. So it won't be long before all the stories come out about how the Packers have fixed everything by beating a terrible defense...mind you, it turns out the Jags have a terrible defense and the Packers didn't do much to them either.

 

[Mondio]

And that goes back to points I've been making all along. This season has started slowly for a lot of different reasons than last year. I also said if they don't start working within the offense instead of looking. To score every play, they'll destroy poor teams and struggle mightily against the good ones.

But still, the same coaches, with the same playbook, using the same players, against the same great defense showed they can be pretty effective when they start using the field and throwing to open receivers. They still have stuff to clean up, but this offense can be better than just good and it is with the same system and philosophy they've been playing under for a long time

 

[HardRightEdge]

Touche. The Jaguars and Vikings are stellar examples of good offensive coaching...and up next is the well-coached Lions team!...with those comparisons it's no wonder some are convinced that McCarthy is Bill Walsh reborn...

While I don't think many folks see McCarthy as Bill Walsh reborn given recent performance, it's probably worth noting that the Packers offense has evolved so far from West Coast principles as to be unrecognizable as such. While they may retain West Coast terminology, they sure don't look like a West Coast offense if Walsh's 49er's are the benchmark. I'm not sure anybody does anymore.

 

[HardRightEdge]

http://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2...-vikings-playing-scared-reads-pocket-presence

I see these guys borrowed my phrase "stuck in his own head". For me it's a possibility; for these guys it seems to be a certainty. But if you want to pick out a play to illustrate "stuckness" this would not be it.

On this play, Rodgers has his feet set left and he's looking left for the first read(s) in the progression. He appears to be spot checking Davis before he clears, but the set is to go left. More likely he's not looking so much at Davis as whether Davis has frozen the ILB or taken him out entirely from the center crossing target zone. Davis may not even be in the progression, serving only to take the ILB out of the play.

Please, please note that the two receivers (who are first in the progression) are crossing inside stacked 5 yards apart. In case anybody is not aware, a 5 yard stack that far down the field is messed up. That's bad field spacing; it invites the convergence of multiple defenders to the ball where many bad things can happen. Since it would be impossible to believe those stacked routes were by design, we must conclude the options the 2 receivers chose were not complementary, to put it politely.

Now get out your stop watch and see where this play is at 2.0 seconds. Rodgers is having guys pushed back in his face. He may have glanced Davis after he went off that hot mess on the left side, but didn't have the passing lane, wanted to avoid having his arm hit or bouncing his passing hand off somebody's helmet, and/or reckoned he'd get out while the getting is good since the prospects at 2.5 seconds were not favorable.

I've been noticing a similar phenomenon over the past couple of years. While the O-Line often provides a clean pocket, it's often a small pocket. That is not helpful. Neither is screwed up route running.

 

[El Guapo]

I'm calling out Aaron Rodgers now too. I still like him as a player, but I've now read two things in the past day that have dribbled out of his mouth that have ruffled my feathers. The first:

He also accepted blame for Sunday’s loss. "I have to,” Rodgers said. “I have to lead by example. As a leader, you have to take the blame when it’s necessary, and even sometimes when it's not your fault. I think it's important to let those guys know that you're going to stick your body on the line, but also you're going to stand up for them when you need to in the locker room, the meeting room and the media, and take your responsibility for the way you played.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2016/09/21/rodgers-ve-got-play-better/90783238/
He goes on to say that he needs to play better, but it sure sounds like he thinks that he's the fall guy for the rest of the team. It sounds like he's saying that it's his fault, but he's really hinting that it's not his fault and a "good leader" is supposed to take the heat.


His second statement that angered me is while speaking about the wet ball drill:

“It’s a silly drill,” Rodgers said. “It’s one of my least favorite drills in the game. I did it today as a favor to the coaches because I don’t like that drill because it’s unrealistic.

http://www.scout.com/nfl/packers/story/1709588-rodgers-calls-wet-ball-drill-silly
He's participating in drills as a favor to the coaches!?! WTF. He sounds like he's going through the motions of being a QB without the fervor required of the team leader. I think that he's finally getting a little full of himself. I don't care if you think the drill is silly. You're the leader of the damn team! If the coach thinks that it's important, you do it, not as a favor but as your obligation to your employer and teammates. It doesn't sound like he's trying to be the best anymore, and that seems to be reflecting on the field.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Do you really want to make that rationalization? Assuming something you cannot see?

Baranczyk assumed there might have been other instances of receivers being open with Rodgers throwing the ball somewhere else.

After taking a look at the coaches film of the Vikings game (you get access to it with a Game Pass subscription in Europe) he was right about it.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Rodgers finally has to stop looking for the big play on every single attempt but throw short passes to receivers running underneath routes. That will allow him to get the ball out faster and set up the opportunity to hit on some long balls as well.

I was saying this going back several years, with a return to some West Coast principles. I've given up on that. This is a big play QB in a big play passing game. It's hard to see how that's going to change.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I was saying this going back several years, with a return to some West Coast principles. I've given up on that. This is a big play QB in a big play passing game. It's hard to see how that's going to change.

Well, if Rodgers continues to struggle on hitting any big plays he better be able to adjust. Otherwise the Packers offense could be in for a long season.

In addition it seems the coaching staff and quarterback have forgotten that success on short to intermediate plays set up the long ones.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Well, if Rodgers continues to struggle on hitting any big plays he better be able to adjust. Otherwise the Packers offense could be in for a long season.

In addition it seems the coaching staff and quarterback have forgotten that success on short to intermediate plays set up the long ones.

There are a couple of other alternatives. The rest of the offense executes better. Or the defense actually wins some games from time to time.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

There are a couple of other alternatives. The rest of the offense executes better. Or the defense actually wins some games from time to time.

Currently I believe the defense is the unit more capable of overcoming their shortcomings in the secondary than the offense as long as Rodgers and the coaching staff don't change their approach.