James Starks Must Be Cut TODAY!!!!

[Croak]

A little housekeeping here; this thread is about James Starks. The Janis thread is at this location; https://www.packerforum.com/threads/defending-janis.66902/

 

[HardRightEdge]

This has been true for weeks. MM either doesn't know how to use versatile players or he just doesn't like to use versatile players. Montgomery should be a terrific player on this offense, someone that is not taken off the field that often and yet MM prefers to play Starks because he knows how to use a traditional running back in his 1/1 sets. Put Ty on the Pats and you'd have a potential All-Star. The Pats made Hernandez a focal point on their offense just by moving him around and putting the defense in bad positions. Yeah, Ty can't block at TE but neither could Hernandez, just having a guy that can play WR/RB/FB is an enormous weapon and it's one that MM has NEVER been able to use.

McCarthy hasn't bought into the 2-back set to the extent I suggested though he seems to be warming up to it a bit. To provide the run look, an in-line TE is required with only 2 wide outs. This would typically take Cobb off the field, though in these situations he at times played wide for blocking purposes in the run. McCarthy's playbook is jammed with 3 and 4 wide sets, so it goes against his grain.

However, there's nothing to prevent Montgomery from motioning to the slot for 3-wide + TE. Perhaps he's not comfortable with RIP's pass blocking, but I don't believe that's the issue. It's more likely a case of seeing Montgomery as less polished, and frankly less versatile and talented, than Cobb out of the slot, with my suggestion taking Cobb off the field on a pass call.

However, if McCarthy wants to get some kind of run game going, particularly in situations other than the pat first down and short yardage situations, which he certainly would want, what Montgomery lacks in downfield ability he'd make up for in scheme and audible versatility.

I don't think Montgomery and Hernandez is a valid comparison. Hernandez was a 245 lbs. TE and would often line up at H-back in 2-back sets. Montgomery could never sell that. He's best thought of as primarily a passing down back, but with RIP he could be a run threat in some tweener downs, those 2nd. and 4 or 5 downs while also providing the pass option motioning to the slot or out of the backfield.

Montgomery is just not a guy to run against 7 in the box.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Montgomery is just not a guy to run against 7 in the box.

That point can't be emphasized enough. Same really goes for Starks at this point and I haven't seen enough of Christian to draw any conclusions on him. I know everyone wants to think a Packer RB should be picking up 4+ yards on first down, but the RB that had the best ability to do that for the Packers is currently on IR.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

This has been true for weeks. MM either doesn't know how to use versatile players or he just doesn't like to use versatile players. Montgomery should be a terrific player on this offense, someone that is not taken off the field that often and yet MM prefers to play Starks because he knows how to use a traditional running back in his 1/1 sets. Put Ty on the Pats and you'd have a potential All-Star. The Pats made Hernandez a focal point on their offense just by moving him around and putting the defense in bad positions. Yeah, Ty can't block at TE but neither could Hernandez, just having a guy that can play WR/RB/FB is an enormous weapon and it's one that MM has NEVER been able to use.

While I am not saying your point isn't valid, but you have to recognize that Montgomery and Cobb have very similar skill sets, so I am sure trying to game plan around both being on the field all the time is a challenge.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A little housekeeping here; this thread is about James Starks. The Janis thread is at this location; https://www.packerforum.com/threads/defending-janis.66902/

Maybe every year our site could give out an award for the Packer player that has created the most "angst" for posters during the year. We could call it the "JJ Award", not to be confused with James Jones

That way, one thread could encompass all the players we are disappointed in for that given year.

 

[Half Empty]

Ya, but this year it would mean the forum would only have the one thread.

 

[PeteButter]

Ty Montgomery is the fastest, strongest, most agile, best pass catching runningback on the Packers BY FAR but yet you Packers fans find the most creative ways to discredit him.

"Montgomery is not a guy to run against 7 in the box" lol ok bro. Keep hating on the most talented skill player you got. Ty Montgomery is a bigger, stronger, LeVeon Bell. Per-run Ty is breaking more tackles than anyone in the league. He's averaging like 6 yards a carry and leading the team in yards with limited touches. BUT YET EVERY WEEK...the Packer fanbase is ready to name anyone-but-Ty the starting runningback. Christine Michael is TRASH!! Starks is TRASH! Lacy was JUST OK! Ty Montgomery out-performs them all!!

McCarthy is no more delusional and unwilling to adapt than the antiquated Packer fans watching the games. I hope Ty leaves the Packers and goes somewhere a 225lb rb speedster with elite pass catching ability is appreciated, which is like everywhere else in the NFL.

#rantover

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Ty Montgomery is the fastest, strongest, most agile, best pass catching runningback on the Packers BY FAR but yet you Packers fans find the most creative ways to discredit him.

"Montgomery is not a guy to run against 7 in the box" lol ok bro. Keep hating on the most talented skill player you got. Ty Montgomery is a bigger, stronger, LeVeon Bell. Per-run Ty is breaking more tackles than anyone in the league. He's averaging like 6 yards a carry and leading the team in yards with limited touches. BUT YET EVERY WEEK...the Packer fanbase is ready to name anyone-but-Ty the starting runningback. Christine Michael is TRASH!! Starks is TRASH! Lacy was JUST OK! Ty Montgomery out-performs them all!!

McCarthy is no more delusional and unwilling to adapt than the antiquated Packer fans watching the games. I hope Ty leaves the Packers and goes somewhere a 225lb rb speedster with elite pass catching ability is appreciated, which is like everywhere else in the NFL.

#rantover

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Ty Montgomery is the fastest, strongest, most agile, best pass catching runningback on the Packers BY FAR but yet you Packers fans find the most creative ways to discredit him.

"Montgomery is not a guy to run against 7 in the box" lol ok bro. Keep hating on the most talented skill player you got. Ty Montgomery is a bigger, stronger, LeVeon Bell. Per-run Ty is breaking more tackles than anyone in the league. He's averaging like 6 yards a carry and leading the team in yards with limited touches. BUT YET EVERY WEEK...the Packer fanbase is ready to name anyone-but-Ty the starting runningback. Christine Michael is TRASH!! Starks is TRASH! Lacy was JUST OK! Ty Montgomery out-performs them all!!

McCarthy is no more delusional and unwilling to adapt than the antiquated Packer fans watching the games. I hope Ty leaves the Packers and goes somewhere a 225lb rb speedster with elite pass catching ability is appreciated, which is like everywhere else in the NFL.

#rantover

Montgomery has done a good job rushing the ball this season but it's ridiculous to compare him to Le'Veon Bell or Lacy.

FWIW he doesn't lead the Packers in rushing yards.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Ty Montgomery is the fastest, strongest, most agile, best pass catching runningback on the Packers BY FAR but yet you Packers fans find the most creative ways to discredit him.

"Montgomery is not a guy to run against 7 in the box" lol ok bro. Keep hating on the most talented skill player you got. Ty Montgomery is a bigger, stronger, LeVeon Bell. Per-run Ty is breaking more tackles than anyone in the league. He's averaging like 6 yards a carry and leading the team in yards with limited touches. BUT YET EVERY WEEK...the Packer fanbase is ready to name anyone-but-Ty the starting runningback. Christine Michael is TRASH!! Starks is TRASH! Lacy was JUST OK! Ty Montgomery out-performs them all!!

McCarthy is no more delusional and unwilling to adapt than the antiquated Packer fans watching the games. I hope Ty leaves the Packers and goes somewhere a 225lb rb speedster with elite pass catching ability is appreciated, which is like everywhere else in the NFL.

#rantover

Is this Ty's sister?

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Is this Ty's sister?

behave !

 

[swhitset]

Ty Montgomery is the fastest, strongest, most agile, best pass catching runningback on the Packers BY FAR but yet you Packers fans find the most creative ways to discredit him.

"Montgomery is not a guy to run against 7 in the box" lol ok bro. Keep hating on the most talented skill player you got. Ty Montgomery is a bigger, stronger, LeVeon Bell. Per-run Ty is breaking more tackles than anyone in the league. He's averaging like 6 yards a carry and leading the team in yards with limited touches. BUT YET EVERY WEEK...the Packer fanbase is ready to name anyone-but-Ty the starting runningback. Christine Michael is TRASH!! Starks is TRASH! Lacy was JUST OK! Ty Montgomery out-performs them all!!

McCarthy is no more delusional and unwilling to adapt than the antiquated Packer fans watching the games. I hope Ty leaves the Packers and goes somewhere a 225lb rb speedster with elite pass catching ability is appreciated, which is like everywhere else in the NFL.

#rantover

I find it humorous that you use the word delusional in that post, and are not referring to the post itself. I like Ty btw.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

behave !

Sorry was channeling my inner Greg Jennings

 

[Robert Mason]

No we don't, but we don't make draft decisions, play calls, personnel and 1000's of other decisions, so it shouldn't prevent us from discussing it.

Really, the only decision we as fans make for the Packers team.......well....LOL None?

That's right......that's what this forum is for......discussing things. Everyone has an opinion and is entitled to express it.

 

[OldSchool101]

I'd like to take this opportunity to appeal to the football Gods.. Can we please please get back to the RB short dump passes rather than these screens 5 yards behind the LOS

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I'd like to take this opportunity to appeal to the football Gods.. Can we please please get back to the RB short dump passes rather than these screens 5 yards behind the LOS

Those wideout screens make me nervous against a team like Seattle. Not only will there be fewer yards to make, but you run the risk of one of their defenders sniffing the play out, jumping it and getting a pick 6. We can't afford turnovers if we want to beat the Seahawks.

 

[Robert Mason]

That doesn´t help because he can´t run a proper route though.

Thanks for that simple answer. It saves me from going through 35 screens of posts that ended seven months ago.

 

[Robert Mason]

This has been true for weeks. MM either doesn't know how to use versatile players or he just doesn't like to use versatile players. Montgomery should be a terrific player on this offense, someone that is not taken off the field that often and yet MM prefers to play Starks because he knows how to use a traditional running back in his 1/1 sets. Put Ty on the Pats and you'd have a potential All-Star. The Pats made Hernandez a focal point on their offense just by moving him around and putting the defense in bad positions. Yeah, Ty can't block at TE but neither could Hernandez, just having a guy that can play WR/RB/FB is an enormous weapon and it's one that MM has NEVER been able to use.

Well, the injuries to Lacy and Starks forced MM to use versatile players and I think its the best thing that's happened to this team in a while.

 

[PackerDNA]

Those wideout screens make me nervous against a team like Seattle. Not only will there be fewer yards to make, but you run the risk of one of their defenders sniffing the play out, jumping it and getting a pick 6. We can't afford turnovers if we want to beat the Seahawks.

The simplicity of their scheme, the speed and recognition skills of their players make such plays dicey.
Best thing to do with them is line up and punch them in the mouth.
Unfortunately, we're not very well equipped to do that at this time.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

McCarthy hasn't bought into the 2-back set to the extent I suggested though he seems to be warming up to it a bit. To provide the run look, an in-line TE is required with only 2 wide outs. This would typically take Cobb off the field, though in these situations he at times played wide for blocking purposes in the run. McCarthy's playbook is jammed with 3 and 4 wide sets, so it goes against his grain.

However, there's nothing to prevent Montgomery from motioning to the slot for 3-wide + TE. Perhaps he's not comfortable with RIP's pass blocking, but I don't believe that's the issue. It's more likely a case of seeing Montgomery as less polished, and frankly less versatile and talented, than Cobb out of the slot, with my suggestion taking Cobb off the field on a pass call.

However, if McCarthy wants to get some kind of run game going, particularly in situations other than the pat first down and short yardage situations, which he certainly would want, what Montgomery lacks in downfield ability he'd make up for in scheme and audible versatility.

I don't think Montgomery and Hernandez is a valid comparison. Hernandez was a 245 lbs. TE and would often line up at H-back in 2-back sets. Montgomery could never sell that. He's best thought of as primarily a passing down back, but with RIP he could be a run threat in some tweener downs, those 2nd. and 4 or 5 downs while also providing the pass option motioning to the slot or out of the backfield.

Montgomery is just not a guy to run against 7 in the box.

Why can't Ty run against seven in the box? I think people forget how big Ty is. He's the same size as Starks; he's actually stockier than Starks, he's two inches shorter and only two pounds lighter. And I said in my original post, that Ty can't play TE; my point was that having a versatile guy allows the offense to motion the defense into bad matchups.

The thought that he's only a passing downs back is the same conservative thinking that's kept Starks in at running back more than Ty. Why can't a guy who has the same build as Melvin Gordon be an every down running back? And, if you don't want him to be an every down back, then why can't he at least be the leader in a platoon?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

While I am not saying your point isn't valid, but you have to recognize that Montgomery and Cobb have very similar skill sets, so I am sure trying to game plan around both being on the field all the time is a challenge.

Cobb is too small to play RB that often. Ty is the same size as Melvin Gordon. Ty can line up at RB far more often and not get as beat up as Cobb, plus the defense has to actually account for Ty's power. Cobb is great after the catch but he's not strong enough to really move a pile. Ty is.

 

[swhitset]

Why can't Ty run against seven in the box? I think people forget how big Ty is. He's the same size as Starks; he's actually stockier than Starks, he's two inches shorter and only two pounds lighter. And I said in my original post, that Ty can't play TE; my point was that having a versatile guy allows the offense to motion the defense into bad matchups.

The thought that he's only a passing downs back is the same conservative thinking that's kept Starks in at running back more than Ty. Why can't a guy who has the same build as Melvin Gordon be an every down running back? And, if you don't want him to be an every down back, then why can't he at least be the leader in a platoon?

You make some good points.... however, Starks obviously isn't suited to be an every down back either so comparing Ty's build to Starks doesn't give me the feeling that he is built for it either. That being said, if they are going to keep giving the ball to Starks, I don't see how Montgomery could be any worse.

 

[Robert Mason]

Cobb is too small to play RB that often. Ty is the same size as Melvin Gordon. Ty can line up at RB far more often and not get as beat up as Cobb, plus the defense has to actually account for Ty's power. Cobb is great after the catch but he's not strong enough to really move a pile. Ty is.

And since Janis is the same size as Ty......try him in the backfield also !

 

[swhitset]

This is getting silly.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

And since Janis is the same size as Ty......try him in the backfield also !

Janis is three inches taller and doesn't know how to run the ball. Ty can get away with that at only 6' but asking a guy at 6'3" that doesn't know how to stay low to run the ball is asking the guy to get crushed because he's running to high.