I've seen enough...

[tynimiller]

The other aspect is that we’ve barely gotten any production from this Rookie class.

For a rookie class after just three weeks I would beg to differ on this claim...

Jordan Morgan even with being unable to play the third game has played in 24% of the offensive snaps, that assuredly would be higher had he not gotten injured (42% first game / 29% second game) - he's chipped in 11% of ST snaps too.
Javon Bullard - Has been in there for just shy of 90% of the defensive snaps and is at 48% of the ST snaps.
Edgerrin Cooper - Has seen more this last week than first few weeks but still he's been in for 19% of defensive snaps and 22% of the ST snaps.
MarShawn Lloyd - we all know his injury issues, 10 snaps, albeit they were or have been good though.
Ty'Ron Hopper - 45%+ of the special team snaps.
Evan Williams - 12.9% of defensive snaps and 49% of ST snaps.
Jacob Monk - 23% of ST snaps
Oladapo - 7% of ST snaps

Only Glover, Pratt and King have not seen a snap at this point from our entire draft class.

UDFA Rookie Narveson - our kicker

Truly this is a strong amount of snaps by rookies and as you have seen and desire like many of us - this is only going to increase. When Morgan is healthy I suspect we continue to see him split time with Rhyan, however outside chance if Walker cannot clean up his penalties could we see Morgan get some work at LT....or is there a world where Jenkins slides out and Morgan goes LG...

Cooper is the one that is going to keep growing a lot in snap percentage...until he stops making plays...or illustrates rookie overwhelment.

Lloyd just needs health and he will see I bet 10 snaps or so a game.

All in all this rookie class is for sure making its' presence known.

 

[gopkrs]

Walker has to clean up the penalties. So does Jenkins imho.

 

[tynimiller]

Walker has to clean up the penalties. So does Jenkins imho.

I've always understood one penalty a game as a given especially if your LT is going up against elite rushers...but Walker has made some DUMB ones. Holding when beat is one thing....a few of his have been poor technique which is concerning or not knowing when to disengage to avoid a call.

 

[gopkrs]

I've always understood one penalty a game as a given especially if your LT is going up against elite rushers...but Walker has made some DUMB ones. Holding when beat is one thing....a few of his have been poor technique which is concerning or not knowing when to disengage to avoid a call.

Agreed. My feeling is that Walker will continue to get better as the season goes on. I hope I'm right. Jenkins though, may not be the player he was. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[OldSchool101]

Truly this is a strong amount of snaps by rookies and as you have seen and desire like many of us - this is only going to increase.

All in all this rookie class is for sure making its' presence known.

A “strong” number??
I’m not sure I’m buying that rebuttal.
What is the normal % of snaps by a drafted Day1-2 player in the NFL in a Rookie season??
I highly doubt that 15.62% is Strong usage and it does not impress me as higher usage for higher drafted player. Call it Top 100 types…

Of course it’s going to increase. Its not going to decrease.

 

[tynimiller]

Research the typical breakdown when looking at it as you did here.

This is why it is best to isolate each guys role and percentage of snaps for the phases he play....you have 11 guys on the field per snap...to just lump all those together and then use that snap count is far too much overlap IMO and muddies the stats.

If you merely go guy by guy and see what percentage of his potential playing time snaps he is getting vs not getting you get a better picture.

 

[OldSchool101]

Ok

Research the typical breakdown when looking at it as you did here.

This is why it is best to isolate each guys role and percentage of snaps for the phases he play....you have 11 guys on the field per snap...to just lump all those together and then use that snap count is far too much overlap IMO and muddies the stats.

If you merely go guy by guy and see what percentage of his potential playing time snaps he is getting vs not getting you get a better picture.

ok let’s isolate.

Terrion Arnold. He’s there very first Non QB
himself has played 173 of 185 possible snaps. He's the first non QB I looked at. I won’t pick on QB that’s unfair because they are either 100% or 0% Caleb or JJ etc.

 

[OldSchool101]

Cole Bishop was a Day 2 popped in my head just arbitrary but trying to single some out like you mentioned.
28+20 so 48 snaps 38% teams 10% D. Nothing special there similar to to Morgan although drafted a little later

Dewayne Carter round 3 Buffalo.
Draft pick 95
65 snaps. 26.44% on D alone

 

[tynimiller]

Ok

ok let’s isolate.

Terrion Arnold. He’s there very first Non QB
himself has played 173 of 185 possible snaps. He's the first non QB I looked at. I won’t pick on QB that’s unfair because they are either 100% or 0% Caleb or JJ etc.

He's barely played more snaps than Bullard.....who has 167 snaps on defense.

Positions also play a massive factor. DBs and WRs will almost always see playing time faster than other positions...OL and DL types are a coin toss depending on depth they slot into...TEs similar.

 

[OldSchool101]

He's barely played more snaps than Bullard.....who has 167 snaps on defense.

Positions also play a massive factor. DBs and WRs will almost always see playing time faster than other positions...OL and DL types are a coin toss depending on depth they slot into...TEs similar.

but you selected the 1 most used player of all 10 draft picks to use. What about the other 4 that were drafted high? I didn’t say zero players had snaps. I said as a whole we’ve had limited usage. Using 1 player is not a whole. Bullard is great. He’s also 1/5 of our Day1-2 drafted.

 

[tynimiller]

Cole Bishop was a Day 2 popped in my head just arbitrary but trying to single some out like you mentioned.
28+20 so 48 snaps 38% teams 10% D. Nothing special there similar to to Morgan although drafted a little later

Dewayne Carter round 3 Buffalo.
Draft pick 95
65 snaps. 26.44% on D alone

Morgan missed an entire game due to injury and part of the other....and yet still has played in 24% of the snaps overall including the ones he wasn't even dressed.

 

[tynimiller]

but you selected the 1 most used player of all 10 draft picks to use. What about the other 4 that were drafted high? I didn’t say zero players had snaps. I said as a whole we’ve had limited usage. Using 1 player is not a whole.

You singled out a DB selected high by another team so I did the exact same???

 

[OldSchool101]

same???

 

[OldSchool101]

You singled out a DB selected high by another team so I did the exact same???

Detroit didn’t draft 5 Top 100 guys. They drafted 2 and between them there started 50% of ALL defensive snaps. Not Special Teams (love you guys) were talking starting Defense here. So kinda hard to argue we’ve had strong usage of our GROUP comparatively. We’re nowhere near strong usage and that’s the first team I’ve hit.

I like the injury excuse. It’s actually true we’re very injured in reality. But that doesn’t help your “we’ve had strong usage among rookies” rebuttal. Lol. Injuries speak to “non usage” not “strong usage”.

 

[tynimiller]

@OldSchool101 Here's just the OL drafted in the top 50 and the number of games they were active and the number of snaps played....

Joe Alt - 3 / 172
JC Latham - 3 / 184
Olu Fashanu - 3 / 14
Taliesa Fuaga - 3 / 175
Amarius Mims - 3 / 39
Troy Fautanu - 1 / 55
Jordan Morgan - 2 / 48
Graham Barton - 3 / 169
Tyler Guyton - 3 / 213
JPJ - 1 / 21


Just in OL, Morgan even with his injury has more snaps than three guys, two drafted before him. Had he not gotten injured it would be more than four others.

 

[OldSchool101]

I’ll stand by that initial comment. The Packers aren’t anywhere close to maximizing their draft class as a whole.
Thats really the only point I was making

 

[OldSchool101]

@OldSchool101 Here's just the OL drafted in the top 50 and the number of games they were active and the number of snaps played....

Joe Alt - 3 / 172
JC Latham - 3 / 184
Olu Fashanu - 3 / 14
Taliesa Fuaga - 3 / 175
Amarius Mims - 3 / 39
Troy Fautanu - 1 / 55
Jordan Morgan - 2 / 48
Graham Barton - 3 / 169
Tyler Guyton - 3 / 213
JPJ - 1 / 21


Just in OL, Morgan even with his injury has more snaps than three guys, two drafted before him. Had he not gotten injured it would be more than four others.

That actually makes us look like we’re nowhere close to fully utilizing our Draft class (although those very high drafted) Which is the only point I expressed. Again I know it’s not our fault for injury. I get that. However that feeds what I was trying to express.
You took my point as a “slight” on our team. It was just actually just the opposite. I love our team. I want them to fully utilize this great draft class. At least maybe relook at that.

I said the same thing about Aaron Jones a few years ago. Captain retaliated like I insulted his MeMaw
3 weeks later everyone was on the bandwagon and even Matt didn’t realize we were neglecting him. Then #33 went on a complete terror. We went from losing most games to winning most games.

The same thing happened last week. Stenavic when presented by a reporter, did not realize we almost ignored Musgrave. The reporters intent wasn’t to insult our OC it was just a good question. Sten said he’d look at that he wasn’t aware of that. I like his humility. Even these coaches admittedly miss player usage. They are so focused they sometimes don’t see the macro version from 1,000 feet. Fortunately Our staff are not to proud to relook at unusual anomalies. Sometimes they do it for good cause. Sometimes they do it unknowingly

 

[tynimiller]

Let's do the same with offball LBs....the way Pro Football Reference lists guys I may miss one. We will do first four round guys:

Edgerrin Cooper - 3 / 36
Junior Colson - 2 / 42
Trevin Wallace - 3 / 11
Marist Liafau - 3 / 77
Ty'Ron Hopper - 3 / 0
Payton Wilson - 3 / 66
Cedric Gray - 0 / 0
Tyrice Knight - 3 / 79

None of the offball linebackers have broke 80 snaps....and Edge unlike many of the others in limited snaps is showcasing playmaking abilities. However, again not atypical that we haven't seen Coop or Hopper out there a ton...but Coop is projecting like he will for sure be used a lot by season's end.

 

[tynimiller]

That actually makes us look like we’re nowhere close to fully utilizing our Draft class. Which is the only point I expressed. Again I know it’s not our fault for injury. I get that. However that feeds what I was trying to express.
You took my point as a “slight” on our team. It was just actually just the opposite. I love our team. I want them to fully utilize this great draft class. At least maybe relook at that.

I said the same thing about Aaron Jones a few years ago. 3 weeks later everyone was on the bandwagon and even Matt didn’t realize we were neglecting him. Then #33 went on a complete tear.

It isn't our style at all however to toss rookies out there unless forced to. And even with that we actually are putting guys in not atypically to their position or draft range really.

I think many just fall victim to the idea or desire (myself included) of expecting a seemless college prospect to contributing NFL rookie.

 

[OldSchool101]

It isn't our style at all however to toss rookies out there unless forced to. And even with that we actually are putting guys in not atypically to their position or draft range really.

I think many just fall victim to the idea or desire (myself included) of expecting a seemless college prospect to contributing NFL rookie.

Sure. We’re conservative generally speaking.
I do think the 2024 draft class as a whole has higher propensity to get more playing time. We do not normally draft 6 players by 10 picks into Round 4. That’s an anomoly.
Although I see 2 primary reasons maybe why not early on:

1. Injuries
Makes it easy to promote Emmanuel over Marshawn etc

2. Overlap. We had Multiple Safeties, drafted multiple ILBs and multiple OL all competing with FA and incumbent Vets.

3. Elevation of other Roster players.
Guys like Emmanuel Wilson or Erik Wilson really stepped up this Offseason. Probably hard to bring in Hopper over E Wilson etc.

I still think we can both agree with what you said earlier. We’re not done with our Rookies just yet. I think we ramp up their usage as the season transpires.

 

[tynimiller]

Sure. We’re conservative generally speaking.
I do think the 2024 draft class as a whole has higher propensity to get more playing time. We do not normally draft 6 players by 10 picks into Round 4. That’s an anomoly.
Although I see 2 primary reasons maybe why not early on:

1. Injuries
Makes it easy to promote Emmanuel over Marshawn etc

2. Overlap. We had Multiple Safeties, drafted multiple ILBs and multiple OL all competing with FA and incumbent Vets.

3. Elevation of other Roster players.
Guys like Emmanuel Wilson or Erik Wilson really stepped up this Offseason. Probably hard to bring in Hopper over E Wilson etc.

I still think we can both agree with what you said earlier. We’re not done with our Rookies just yet. I think we ramp up their usage as the season transpires.

Not by any stretch are we done.

Lloyd will see average of 10 snaps a game if he is healthy IMO.

Cooper could very well be a starter down the final 6

Morgan is the toughest to gauge as Rhyan actually when given a whole game vs the Titans played his best snap collection of his short career. Does this make Morgan swung to another spot? If Myers is truly that meddling center could we look to see what Morgan has at LG and Jenkins to center??

I suspect Evan Williams is also going to slowly see more time albeit never a majority of snaps per game.

Hopper and Oladapo scream SOLID rookie ST guys that will sprinkle in playing time...

 

[sschind]

I should have said kudos to MLF for prepping and kudos to Gute for ACQUIRING him.

Yes, you should have. I hope you have learned your lesson. I will let you off with time served on this one but if it happens again its the time out chair for you buster.

 

[Magooch]

Consider also the direction players are "trending," and not just the rookies but the veterans too. For just one quick example, look at linebacker... Cooper has seen an increase in his snap counts recently: stayed at 13/14% first two weeks, but then up to 33% week three. And opposite of that, you have McDuffie, who is going to be competing for some of those same snaps with Cooper.. moving down from 97% in week one to 89% in week two and 78% in week three. I suspect as the weeks continue on you will probably see things continue to move in that direction until Cooper is getting the lion's share of snaps sooner than later