Inside Linebacker

[Pokerbrat2000]

Crazy thing is that Hawk's atheltic numbers were crazy great. He was just the poster-child for a guy who lost a lot of speed when the pads went on.

He seemed to like to play without his helmet a lot too, maybe made him faster? I will always remember Hawk as a guy who often times got his helmet knocked off.

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[Heyjoe4]

I think they replacements they signed this year have already replaced Ryan, he's as good as gone as far as I'm concerned. If there was someone like Roquan Smith available again without comparable at edge or something I'd be ok with it. BUt that's depending on if Pettine is retained or we head in a different direction.

I don’t see Ryan returning next year. Hopefully Burks makes a 2nd year jump although I really liked the pick. Seems to have all the physical tools but has not had a good rookie campaign. I think ILB is solved with Martinez and moving CMIII permanently to ILB at a greatly reduced salary. Truth is, there are many more positions of need ahead of ILB.

 

[sschind]

I don’t see Ryan returning next year. Hopefully Burks makes a 2nd year jump although I really liked the pick. Seems to have all the physical tools but has not had a good rookie campaign. I think ILB is solved with Martinez and moving CMIII permanently to ILB at a greatly reduced salary. Truth is, there are many more positions of need ahead of ILB.

Great, you solved the problem. Now you just have to convince Clay

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

Great, you solved the problem. Now you just have to convince Clay

Agree. I don't see Clay taking that "deal". Some big City team will want to sign him because of who he is and hope a new system plays to his strengths. I wouldn't mind having him back, but I doubt I would give him the money he wants or will get.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

While position of need definitely factors into a pick successful teams tend to select players presenting the best value at the time they're on the clock. Selecting the best player available at a position while there are other ones in a higher tier available isn't a smart way to handle the draft.

I perceive that as a double edged sword. Sure you might make one position group even better, but for how long? Guys who could start elsewhere will either demand more money for you to retain their talent, request a trade, or just take off once they're an UFA for a starter's role and the money that comes with it.

On the back end of that, the position of need group still goes unaddressed. So unless that stronger position group covers up the weaknesses of the need group, did you really make the team better? TT did this in multiple Drafts, always calling it, "creating competition". That's not necessarily a bad thing, but more times than not it just created an earlier than expected exit from the postseason.

In the heat of the Draft, I'm sure GMs have to weigh the idea of taking a guy "too early" vs dealing with the consequences of picking over the leftovers on the home stretch of the Draft. Between the pundits and the fans there will be cheers and jeers alike.

 

[sschind]

Agree. I don't see Clay taking that "deal". Some big City team will want to sign him because of who he is and hope a new system plays to his strengths. I wouldn't mind having him back, but I doubt I would give him the money he wants or will get.

Here's the thing. If that big city team signs him and moves him inside and it rejuvenates his career we will all hear the complaining like we did with Hyde and Hayward. I kind of get the impression that it might be up to Clay if he is back here or not. I think we should be open to bringing him back at a reasonable price but I'm not sure he will agree that it is reasonable.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I think Clay is a market FA. I've never gotten the self-centered vibe from him; so as the saying goes, "at the end of the day this is a business."

If we tender Clay for $6.5M and another team offers him $9M, I'm sure his agent will give us the first opportunity to counter. Maybe Gute will jump to $7.75M or maybe he won't. I'm confident Clay wants to stay in Green Bay but if the money is elsewhere, I totally understand from a business standpoint.

 

[sschind]

I perceive that as a double edged sword. Sure you might make one position group even better, but for how long? Guys who could start elsewhere will either demand more money for you to retain their talent, request a trade, or just take off once they're an UFA for a starter's role and the money that comes with it.

On the back end of that, the position of need group still goes unaddressed. So unless that stronger position group covers up the weaknesses of the need group, did you really make the team better? TT did this in multiple Drafts, always calling it, "creating competition". That's not necessarily a bad thing, but more times than not it just created an earlier than expected exit from the postseason.

In the heat of the Draft, I'm sure GMs have to weigh the idea of taking a guy "too early" vs dealing with the consequences of picking over the leftovers on the home stretch of the Draft. Between the pundits and the fans there will be cheers and jeers alike.

The Browns were in a situation last year with their 2nd pick. Do they draft a guy that might move their pass rush from a 7 to a 9 or a guy that might move their secondary from a 5 to a 7. Go the first route and you have a great pass rush but the secondary still is average. Go the second route and now you have two above average units. If I had been drafting I probably would have gone with Chubb but I can't argue with Ward pick too much.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don’t see Ryan returning next year. Hopefully Burks makes a 2nd year jump although I really liked the pick. Seems to have all the physical tools but has not had a good rookie campaign. I think ILB is solved with Martinez and moving CMIII permanently to ILB at a greatly reduced salary. Truth is, there are many more positions of need ahead of ILB.

It's possible the Packers move on from Ryan but Matthews isn't an adequate replacement. He was an average inside linebacker at best three years ago and has lost a step since then.

I perceive that as a double edged sword. Sure you might make one position group even better, but for how long? Guys who could start elsewhere will either demand more money for you to retain their talent, request a trade, or just take off once they're an UFA for a starter's role and the money that comes with it.

On the back end of that, the position of need group still goes unaddressed. So unless that stronger position group covers up the weaknesses of the need group, did you really make the team better? TT did this in multiple Drafts, always calling it, "creating competition". That's not necessarily a bad thing, but more times than not it just created an earlier than expected exit from the postseason.

In the heat of the Draft, I'm sure GMs have to weigh the idea of taking a guy "too early" vs dealing with the consequences of picking over the leftovers on the home stretch of the Draft. Between the pundits and the fans there will be cheers and jeers alike.

Once again, position of need should definitely factor into an selection but there's no reason to reach for a player and pass on a significantly more talented because of it.

If Thompson had done that the Packers would have passed on Rodgers in 2005.

I think Clay is a market FA. I've never gotten the self-centered vibe from him; so as the saying goes, "at the end of the day this is a business."

If we tender Clay for $6.5M and another team offers him $9M, I'm sure his agent will give us the first opportunity to counter. Maybe Gute will jump to $7.75M or maybe he won't. I'm confident Clay wants to stay in Green Bay but if the money is elsewhere, I totally understand from a business standpoint.

There's absolutely no way the Packers should think about offering Matthews a deal like that.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

There's absolutely no way the Packers should think about offering Matthews a deal like that.

You must think pretty lowly of him then. He's currently making roughly $13M a year and now you're thinking he should earn less than half? Granted I understand the lost ability but Clay will still start on probably 75% of NFL teams if not more.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I wouldn't have a problem resigning both Cobb and Matthews, but those contracts shouldn't have much in the way of guarantees and should be as incentive laden as possible. All that said, I don't think you can count on Matthews for being the impact starter he once was, nor can you count on Cobb to be on the field for every game, so both players have to be viewed as rotational at best.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I wouldn't have a problem resigning both Cobb and Matthews, but those contracts shouldn't have much in the way of guarantees and should be as incentive laden as possible.

I can get with that. Matthews can go with a $4.75M base salary guaranteed, then incentives for sacks, interceptions, and tackles for loss.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You must think pretty lowly of him then. He's currently making roughly $13M a year and now you're thinking he should earn less than half? Granted I understand the lost ability but Clay will still start on probably 75% of NFL teams if not more.

There are only 24 edge rushers in the entire league earning more than $7.75 million per season. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that Matthews shouldn't be paid like he's still one of the best in the game.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

My "prospective" offer(for what it's worth) was only $6.5M. So not top tier, but just slightly below in what I think the second tier might command. I don't expect him to go for any less than the $5.25M-$6.5M range. We'll just have to wait and see on that.

 

[FarmerPackerFan]

For a quick tid bit of stats, Martinez currently has 5.0 sacks on the year where Matthews only has 3.5 sacks. Clay might find more success in getting qb pressure after moving inside with the options available with a healthy d-line and using delayed blitz, he might have a great year after moving back inside.

 

[OldSchool101]

Something difficult to argue with is that we improved markedly in 2014 with CM3 playing inside. I understand he’s not the sole reason our D dropped ranking and instantly bettered itself substantially, but he still was 100% a part of that successful equation.
He can still be used in blitz packages but I personally don’t think he’s worth more than the 6-7M/annual range. I’d like to see him on a roughly 2yr/$12-14M range to give him the respect of finishing his career in GB. He may not be the player he once was, but he has proven that if he has a supporting cast around him? he can be far more effective than us trying to rely on him as some sort of mythological hero.
If we recall, Him playing ILB allowed Perry and Peppers to play outside and got our best talent on the field in 2014 games 9-18. Our D ranking became extremely good and we showed that during the first half shutout of Russell Wilson n Co during the NFC Chamoionship game. He 100% should’ve been wearing a second SB ring in what turned out to be an absolute 3-phase team meltdown.
The trick to CM3 is to pair him with 1-2 more pass rushers who are formidable and create pocket confusion and warrant extra attention. Clay is still a good occasional splash player and a pretty decent clean up technician IMO

As far as all this talk about Blake Martinez being an underperformer? That’s just preposterous and wholly unsubstantiative. Blake Martinez was a 4th round pick who currently is the #2 leading tackler in the entire NFL and tied for 3rd place in sacks among the ILB group IN THE LEAGUE. You don’t become the runner up to Darius Leonard by accident!
The only “under” paired with his name is under paid and under appreciated!!. We need to clone that kid!

 

[Deleted member 6794]

My "prospective" offer(for what it's worth) was only $6.5M. So not top tier, but just slightly below in what I think the second tier might command. I don't expect him to go for any less than the $5.25M-$6.5M range. We'll just have to wait and see on that.

It's fine if Matthews is asking for an offer like that, hopefully the Packers won't agree to such a deal.

For a quick tid bit of stats, Martinez currently has 5.0 sacks on the year where Matthews only has 3.5 sacks. Clay might find more success in getting qb pressure after moving inside with the options available with a healthy d-line and using delayed blitz, he might have a great year after moving back inside.

Matthews might be effective rushing the passer as an inside linebacker but he doesn't excel at any other part playing the position.

He can still be used in blitz packages but I personally don’t think he’s worth more than the 6-7M/annual range. I’d like to see him on a roughly 2yr/$12-14M range to give him the respect of finishing his career in GB.

There's no doubt Matthews has been a very good player for most of his time in Green Bay but successful teams don't pay for past contribution. Therefore there's absolutely no reason to offer him a contract to show him respect for his performance since being drafted in 2009.

If we recall, Him playing ILB allowed Perry and Peppers to play outside and got our best talent on the field in 2014 games 9-18. Our D ranking became extremely good and we showed that during the first half shutout of Russell Wilson n Co during the NFC Chamoionship game. He 100% should’ve been wearing a second SB ring in what turned out to be an absolute 3-phase team meltdown.

Matthews not being on the field because of a minor ailment over the last five minutes was a major factor in the Packers losing that game.

 

[Mondio]

Matthews has been paid for his past contribution, and well at that.