Injuries

JK64

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MVS was the only injury (Back) I noticed yesterday, hope it isn't too serious.

This is great news! Being able to rotate the 2 Smiths and Gary should give the Packers pass rush a bit of a boost.

That is good news! All pro edge rusher is nothing to sneeze at.
 

JK64

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Z will likely turn into a pass rush specialist if he plays. I am definitely concerned about throwing Jaire out there with no game action for several months, especially at that position. Is he in shape? Has he been covering? Maybe Davante can whip him into shape.
My only concern with Jaire is the shoulder holding up when he tackles.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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My only concern with Jaire is the shoulder holding up when he tackles.
I doubt the doctors or the Packers would let him play if they thought he could do permanent damage to it by playing too early.

Could he re-injure it or injure something else? Sure, but it's now or never and he and everyone else, will have all offseason to mend.
 

swhitset

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Good God, no! I've been yelled at by people out here who think these guys shouldn't be on the field all the time! God forbid that they need to get back in shape, under game conditions, so you need to keep using the guys who have been filling in! LeFleur needs to be fired immediately! Gut that entire coaching staff! We have plenty of posters ready to step in. :)
Who exactly are you quarreling with ? lol.
 

Voyageur

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Who exactly are you quarreling with ? lol.
Nobody! But thanks for asking. I'm just referring to the comment made by LeFleur, about guys being played sparingly, until they can handle the work load. When I suggested it a few of our members decided that wasn't how it's done, I pretty much didn't know what I was talking about.

Having coached, I know damned well it takes time to rebuild the stamina you need to play every down. You don't take that final step in practice, it's done in games. That's why you transition players back into the lineup, you don't just throw them in.

While you're going through this transition, on defense, you need to protect your weakest links on the field, by modifying the assignments, and offering double coverage where needed, to protect weaker defenders. As an example, Jaire can be counted on for single coverage as a corner back, but you need to provide assistance over to top, or underneath, for most of his replacements, when they're playing extended periods of time. They just don't have the coverage skills.

When you do that, your primary play has been changed, and you essentially become a bend but don't break defense to protect yourself against the large chunk plays that can create easier scores against you.

It's pretty simple, and it's what you have to do. It's just common sense.

But, that's my opinion. What would I know. ;)
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Having coached, I know damned well it takes time to rebuild the stamina you need to play every down. You don't take that final step in practice, it's done in games. That's why you transition players back into the lineup, you don't just throw them in.
That makes sense to me, but my only question is, how can all the starters be expected to be in game ready condition when the regular season starts each year, after playing in very few or no snaps in preseason? I don't remember an opening game where starters only played a quarter or a half due to not being in game shape.

I can see where a guy like Bahk, who hadn't played in over a year, needs some slow ramping up of time spent playing. However a guy like Randall Cobb, who wasn't out all that long, might be ready to jump right in and play his normal amount of snaps (obviously less than Bahk's normal). Basically, there is no set "rule" and it really depends a lot on the injury, the time out and most importantly, the athlete and what they did during and after their injury to stay/get back in shape.
 

Voyageur

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That makes sense to me, but my only question is, how can all the starters be expected to be in game ready condition when the regular season starts each year, after playing in very few or no snaps in preseason? I don't remember an opening game where starters only played a quarter or a half due to not being in game shape.

I can see where a guy like Bahk, who hadn't played in over a year, needs some slow ramping up of time spent playing. However a guy like Randall Cobb, who wasn't out all that long, might be ready to jump right in and play his normal amount of snaps (obviously less than Bahk's normal). Basically, there is no set "rule" and it really depends a lot on the injury, the time out and most importantly, the athlete and what they did during and after their injury to stay/get back in shape.
During the preseason, it's a combination of preseason games, intense practices where there's physical offense vs defense drills, running of plays, etc. That all pretty much disappears when the season starts. That's why the NFL has given each team a 3 week window of preparing a player as much as possible, without those drills, to return to game readiness, when they come off IR. It's not enough to build up the stamina needed to compete on every down. Even conditioned players are given downs off, spelled by substitutes at times. Look at how they handled Clay Matthews near the end of his time in GB. They only used him on downs where he was most needed, to conserve his energy level to compete to his fullest on those downs.

Also, by doing this, you reduce the potential for injuries. Both for aggravation of the previous injury, or the potential for a new one.

Just my opinion, based on my own experience.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Just my opinion, based on my own experience.
Yup and I am sure that we will see a variety of strategies used, depending on the individual player. I guess what I was trying to say, is that there is no clear cut formula for bringing a player back, all depends on quite a few variables.
 

Voyageur

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Yup and I am sure that we will see a variety of strategies used, depending on the individual player. I guess what I was trying to say, is that there is no clear cut formula for bringing a player back, all depends on quite a few variables.
Yes it does. Especially when it comes to various positions. Each one has it's own inherent situations. As an example, a D lineman. Each play takes enormous expenditure of energy. After just a few plays, if you aren't given time to recuperate on the sidelines, your stamina goes down. It takes time to build it up. For WRs, it's a matter of lung capacity, and recovery time, after each run down the field. You don't trot, you give it all you've got each play. DBs are facing a similar situation.

When you're exhausted, you just can't make the plays. It's true for all of us, in everything we do.
 

gopkrs

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During the preseason, it's a combination of preseason games, intense practices where there's physical offense vs defense drills, running of plays, etc. That all pretty much disappears when the season starts. That's why the NFL has given each team a 3 week window of preparing a player as much as possible, without those drills, to return to game readiness, when they come off IR. It's not enough to build up the stamina needed to compete on every down. Even conditioned players are given downs off, spelled by substitutes at times. Look at how they handled Clay Matthews near the end of his time in GB. They only used him on downs where he was most needed, to conserve his energy level to compete to his fullest on those downs.

Also, by doing this, you reduce the potential for injuries. Both for aggravation of the previous injury, or the potential for a new one.

Just my opinion, based on my own experience.
Yes. I know that for the O line, playing together is important. But I don't know why they can't spell a guy if he seems a bit tired. Even in the middle of a drive or at the goal line. The D line does.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Not sure how many of you watched the Georgia VS Bama game last night, but man would I like a few of the DL players, as well as some of the OL players on both of those teams. DL players seem to tire faster than OL for sure, not sure if that is due to body type and/or the fact that the DL are pushing, shoving, running and tackling, while the OL players aren't doing quite that much and know where they are suppose to be on every play.

Maybe we will see 1-2 of those players from last night on the Packers in the near future. :) Jordan Davis or Travon Walker would make nice additions to the Packers D.
 

tynimiller

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Not sure how many of you watched the Georgia VS Bama game last night, but man would I like a few of the DL players, as well as some of the OL players on both of those teams. DL players seem to tire faster than OL for sure, not sure if that is due to body type and/or the fact that the DL are pushing, shoving, running and tackling, while the OL players aren't doing quite that much and know where they are suppose to be on every play.

Maybe we will see 1-2 of those players from last night on the Packers in the near future. :) Jordan Davis or Travon Walker would make nice additions to the Packers D.

Jordan Davis is my personal DL #1 and I fully expect he will be gone. Dude is SPECIAL and showcased it enough now that I don't think we stand a shot at him any longer. While we have seen some years where awesome DL drop nearly out of the first round entirely...I don't think that will happen this year.
 

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Jordan Davis is my personal DL #1 and I fully expect he will be gone. Dude is SPECIAL and showcased it enough now that I don't think we stand a shot at him any longer. While we have seen some years where awesome DL drop nearly out of the first round entirely...I don't think that will happen this year.


At some point in this draft, I wonder if Green Bay drafts a kicker?

Might be time...
 

tynimiller

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At some point in this draft, I wonder if Green Bay drafts a kicker?

Might be time...

Honestly its possible we could leave Day 3 having picked a punter and a kicker...Bojo is not signed past this year and Crosby's time may be closing. While the thought of drafting both spots is more a joke than anything, I fully expect kicker is on our radar if for nothing else than priority in UDFA. I do think they like Molson that has been around a bit here and presently on PS
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Speaking of injuries and the game last night. This statement by Saban in talking about WR Jameson William's knee injury. Is it just me or does that mean if he thinks a player doesn't have a future in football, he would have let them keep playing?

“He actually wanted to play in the second half and the medical staff wouldn’t let him,” Saban said later, “which I think was smart because he has a future as a football player.”
 

Curly Calhoun

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Speaking of injuries and the game last night. This statement by Saban in talking about WR Jameson William's knee injury. Is it just me or does that mean if he thinks a player doesn't have a future in football, he would have let them keep playing?

“He actually wanted to play in the second half and the medical staff wouldn’t let him,” Saban said later, “which I think was smart because he has a future as a football player.”

Maybe, because the player may never play football again.

I would also guess it depends on the severity of the injury, and what the medical staff thinks about it.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Maybe, because the player may never play football again.

I would also guess it depends on the severity of the injury, and what the medical staff thinks about it.
I was kind of asking with tongue in cheek. I would hope that Saban would never think to himself "ahhh that kid has no future, staple his arm back on and get him in there, we need him!"
 

JKramer64

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Not sure how many of you watched the Georgia VS Bama game last night, but man would I like a few of the DL players, as well as some of the OL players on both of those teams. DL players seem to tire faster than OL for sure, not sure if that is due to body type and/or the fact that the DL are pushing, shoving, running and tackling, while the OL players aren't doing quite that much and know where they are suppose to be on every play.

Maybe we will see 1-2 of those players from last night on the Packers in the near future. :) Jordan Davis or Travon Walker would make nice additions to the Packers D.
From my limited experience (high school), the difference between playing defense vs offense is night and day. For exactly the reasons you gave in your second argument. On defense, you're fighting off blocks and then chasing the ball, where as on offense, you know you're assignment and executing your block. (I was a guard.). Receivers may get more winded running routes and need an occasional blow, but for the most part, you get way less fatigue on offense. Which is why an offensive line can take over a game in the 4th quarter and if you have a hammer like Dillon pounding the defense, you can wear them down even more.
 

Voyageur

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From my limited experience (high school), the difference between playing defense vs offense is night and day. For exactly the reasons you gave in your second argument. On defense, you're fighting off blocks and then chasing the ball, where as on offense, you know you're assignment and executing your block. (I was a guard.). Receivers may get more winded running routes and need an occasional blow, but for the most part, you get way less fatigue on offense. Which is why an offensive line can take over a game in the 4th quarter and if you have a hammer like Dillon pounding the defense, you can wear them down even more.
Exactly the point. That's why you want your offense on the field. They can take the starch out of a good defense with lengthy drives, that take a lot of plays. When I see the Packers go on a 15 play drive, and score a TD, I'm elated, because I know they're eating the energy right out of the defense.

Here's some interesting statistical information on what happens when you choose to receive or defer to start the game. They may not appear to support what I'm saying, but as JK said, offense saps less energy than defense.

Stats on deferring
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Exactly the point. That's why you want your offense on the field. They can take the starch out of a good defense with lengthy drives, that take a lot of plays. When I see the Packers go on a 15 play drive, and score a TD, I'm elated, because I know they're eating the energy right out of the defense.

Here's some interesting statistical information on what happens when you choose to receive or defer to start the game. They may not appear to support what I'm saying, but as JK said, offense saps less energy than defense.

Stats on deferring
Good article, thanks. :tup:

In the "old days"....about a year ago.....I could give you a reaction of "informative". Which was handy for me. When I saw that on a post, I usually would stop to see what the information was about.

Sadly, the new forum owner changed the format and kind of neutered all of our available ratings for posters. I do still miss the old system.
 

Voyageur

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Good article, thanks. :tup:

In the "old days"....about a year ago.....I could give you a reaction of "informative". Which was handy for me. When I saw that on a post, I usually would stop to see what the information was about.

Sadly, the new forum owner changed the format and kind of neutered all of our available ratings for posters. I do still miss the old system.
I'd imagine the first to goes was the middle finger. That has a way of creating close bonds between people. ;)
 

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