In defense of Capers

[AmishMafia]

There defense was 15th in points allowed and 19th in total yards. We were 13th and 15th in those categories...

Not sure where you're seeing their defense was better.

Thanks for the correction. But my point is still valid - at least in my mind. I thought the cowboys would have a historically bad defense and for them to be even in the middle of the pack was very surprising to me.

 

[TomBrownFan40]

I could be wrong but, it seems like there have been more underachievers, question marks, and out-and-out misses in the personnel side of the ledger on the defensive side of the ball than the offense. I am not smart enough to know if Capers, McCarthy, and/or Ted Thompson are responsible for that. Capers scheme has been largely successful for the Steelers since Joe Green retired. I'll give Capers one more chance: if the brain trust can come up with another off-season adding more Clinton-Dix and Peppers caliber talent we should all be smiling a year from now.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I could be wrong but, it seems like there have been more underachievers, question marks, and out-and-out misses in the personnel side of the ledger on the defensive side of the ball than the offense. I am not smart enough to know if Capers, McCarthy, and/or Ted Thompson are responsible for that. Capers scheme has been largely successful for the Steelers since Joe Green retired. I'll give Capers one more chance: if the brain trust can come up with another off-season adding more Clinton-Dix and Peppers caliber talent we should all be smiling a year from now.

Thompson has the final say over all personnel decisions. I'm quite sure McCarthy and Capers get some input though.

 

[JBlood]

Bob Sanders was fired after 3 seasons where his defenses ranked 11, 16, and 12th in the league by DVOA. Capers comes in and we have DVOA defenses ranked no. 2 in 2009 and 2010. Since then, his defenses rank 25 (2011), 11 (2012), 31 (2013), and 16th (2014) in the league. In the last 4 years only 1 of Capers' defenses equalled Sander's best, and 2 were significantly worse than anything Sanders fielded. This years' defense was ranked the same as Sanders' worst. I thought it was time for a change.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Bob Sanders was fired after 3 seasons where his defenses ranked 11, 16, and 12th in the league by DVOA. Capers comes in and we have DVOA defenses ranked no. 2 in 2009 and 2010. Since then, his defenses rank 25 (2011), 11 (2012), 31 (2013), and 16th (2014) in the league. In the last 4 years only 1 of Capers' defenses equalled Sander's best, and 2 were significantly worse than anything Sanders fielded. This years' defense was ranked the same as Sanders' worst. I thought it was time for a change.

The most important thing is though that the Packers only went 27-21 (.563) in the three years with Sanders while having gone 46-17-1 (.727) over the last four years.

 

[TJV]

No stat is a perfect reflection of reality and when you consider my math is also involved…

 

[PackerDNA]

Before the season. I thought it would take time to integrate the changes and personnel- Peppers in particular- into a cohesive unit. I figured we'd have some hiccups but see pretty good improvement in the second half of the season. Outside of second half collapses against Atlanta and Seattle, I was pleased overall.

 

[rodell330]

The most important thing is though that the Packers only went 27-21 (.563) in the three years with Sanders while having gone 46-17-1 (.727) over the last four years.

Aaron Rodgers has a lot to do with that.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Aaron Rodgers has a lot to do with that.

That's true, but Sanders had the benefit of Favre being the QB for his first two seasons and Rodgers (albeit as a first year starter) during his last.

 

[rodell330]

That's true, but Sanders had the benefit of Favre being the QB for his first two seasons and Rodgers (albeit as a first year starter) during his last.

I'm sure we can agree Rodgers in his prime is better than Farse in his?

 

[HardRightEdge]

Using stats from nfl.com here’s what I came up with for per game stats after the bye and where the Packers would have ranked vs. the league had they performed that way the entire season:
19.6 points per game would have tied them with the Pats for 8th.
332.7 total yards per game would have resulted in a finish of 8th.
86.4 rushing yards per game would have put them at 4th.
3.6 yards per carry would have been a finish of 3rd.
228.5 passing yards per game would have lowered their spot 2 places to 12th.

No stat is a perfect reflection of reality and when you consider my math is also involved… Also I don’t know the difference in opponent’s QB rating and I didn’t figure the difference in turn overs. The opponents were obviously different and game situations always play a part in these kinds of stats as well. That’s why I would put more importance on stats from football outsiders, for example, which take these things into consideration. But I don't know if they break down their D stats into the first 8 and last 8 games of the season.

Even so, I think most of us would have been happy with those finishes and they do pass the “eye test” of the improvement of the D. The most relevant consideration regarding Capers as I and others have posted is how much did Capers have to do with the change over the bye week that resulted in those changes.

(BTW, IMO the idea of the Packers hiring someone who had just become co-DC at a major college program to take over as DC next season is way, way out there.)

Clearly the Packers D played better in the second half due to the changes McCarthy instituted.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Clearly the Packers D played better in the second half due to the changes McCarthy instituted.

Well, then there's hope for further improvement as McCarthy will put more of his focus towards that side of the ball in 2015.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Well, then there's hope for further improvement as McCarthy will put more of his focus towards that side of the ball in 2015.

That's what I'm looking for.

 

[JBlood]

The most important thing is though that the Packers only went 27-21 (.563) in the three years with Sanders while having gone 46-17-1 (.727) over the last four years.

In general, it's an offensive-driven, passing league today, and having an incredible QB shows teams can win without a dominant defense, especially in the regular season. But in the playoffs, where you generally play good defenses every week, even a great QB may struggle (as Rogers has at times), and a good, solid defense is critically important. We haven't had one for 4 years. The defense this year reflects the last 4 years--good and bad. The Seattle game continued the bipolar action. We were solid the first 56 minutes against Seattle and awful the last 4--and overtime. Maybe it's the players; maybe it's the scheme; it's probably both. But it isn't acceptable and it wouldn't be considered rash, or impulsive to make a change in coaching after 4 years of it, imo. I think McCarthy's biggest weakness is his loyalty to his coaches, who I'm sure are his friends after a number of years. That's an admirable quality unless it becomes a barrier to improving the team's performance.

 

[Forderick]

Jblood , I have always believed your greatest strength can also be your greatest weakness.

 

[Forderick]

I really think people should stop judging a defense's performance by yards allowed. While the 2011 defense yielded a ton of yards (mostly because opponents took a high risk approach trying to keep on pace with our high powered offense) the unit finished 19th in points allowed. While that isn't great by any means it's far away from being one of the worst of all time.

Only once, after an inexplicably drop off in performance after Rodgers got hurt in 2013, did one of Capers' defenses finished outside of the top 20 in points allowed.

Once again, I'm not suggesting the Packers have played great defense with Capers being the coordinator after winning the Super Bowl in 2010 but they've mostly been good enough to give our offense a chance to win.

While there is more to a defence than yards allowed, if you don't let them move the ball they will likely not score. In todays game this is a lot easier said than done, but YAC is the thing teams need to contain. There will be completed passes and a lot of them because of the rules and how the defence is at a disadvantage as well, but teams need to limit YAC and tackle the person as soon as they catch the ball.

A lot of the yards were a result of abysmal tackling, and just lack of fundamental football. That is a huge issue. How many 3rd and longs did teams convert on the packers the last 4 years? This year has no doubt been the best the defence has played in a long time, but they just aren't there yet and I think they would have been a lot further ahead if they fired Capers 3 years ago. Thats just my opinion.

 

[rodell330]

Mm should've start putting more focus in the Special teams and Defense yrs ago. Slocum was here 2 yrs to long And capers has no more excuses. Injuries were not an issue on defense this year . Aside of mlb The talent is here to be a top 10 defense. I've been critical of TT and some of his methods but I can't blame him..not yet at least.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

While there is more to a defence than yards allowed, if you don't let them move the ball they will likely not score. In todays game this is a lot easier said than done, but YAC is the thing teams need to contain. There will be completed passes and a lot of them because of the rules and how the defence is at a disadvantage as well, but teams need to limit YAC and tackle the person as soon as they catch the ball.

A lot of the yards were a result of abysmal tackling, and just lack of fundamental football. That is a huge issue. How many 3rd and longs did teams convert on the packers the last 4 years? This year has no doubt been the best the defence has played in a long time, but they just aren't there yet and I think they would have been a lot further ahead if they fired Capers 3 years ago. Thats just my opinion.

It´s your personal impression the Packers have allowed a lot of 3rd and long conversions over the last four years but the numbers actually don´t match. The defense ranks 8th in conversion percentage on 3rd or 4th and 10+ yards over the last few seasons at 18.1% and lead the league in turnover percentage during such plays.

Taking only plays of 15+ yards to go into consideration the Packers defense ranks 2nd in the league since 2011.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Bob Sanders was fired after 3 seasons where his defenses ranked 11, 16, and 12th in the league by DVOA. Capers comes in and we have DVOA defenses ranked no. 2 in 2009 and 2010. Since then, his defenses rank 25 (2011), 11 (2012), 31 (2013), and 16th (2014) in the league. In the last 4 years only 1 of Capers' defenses equalled Sander's best, and 2 were significantly worse than anything Sanders fielded. This years' defense was ranked the same as Sanders' worst. I thought it was time for a change.

Proving that McCarthy is willing to fire defensive coordinators that he doesn't believe in. Apparently, the guy in charge of the team and who sees what Capers does on a daily basis (as opposed to fans who only see three hours a week) thinks Capers is still a good coordinator. But I'm sure McCarthy is wrong and all the fans that see a total of 48 hours of capers coaching a year know far more than the head coach.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Proving that McCarthy is willing to fire defensive coordinators that he doesn't believe in. Apparently, the guy in charge of the team and who sees what Capers does on a daily basis (as opposed to fans who only see three hours a week) thinks Capers is still a good coordinator. But I'm sure McCarthy is wrong and all the fans that see a total of 48 hours of capers coaching a year know far more than the head coach.

Yeah, well, McCarthy's giving up the play calling and applying more focus to the defense has less to do with the play calling and more to do with the defense.

 

[Half Empty]

Proving that McCarthy is willing to fire defensive coordinators that he doesn't believe in. Apparently, the guy in charge of the team and who sees what Capers does on a daily basis (as opposed to fans who only see three hours a week) thinks Capers is still a good coordinator. But I'm sure McCarthy is wrong and all the fans that see a total of 48 hours of capers coaching a year know far more than the head coach.

The part that we see is what he gets paid for. Plenty of players have been 'fired' for doing well except during the games.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Yeah, well, McCarthy's giving up the play calling and applying more focus to the defense has less to do with the play calling and more to do with the defense.

I think it has far more to do with the systemic issues that showed up in the Seattle game. The main reason, in my opinion, isn't the defense, it's because, somehow, nobody on the offensive side of the bal knew that Sherman or Thomas were injured during the game!

Let's remember that McCarthy's "changes" he implented last year to the defense (the quad defense) were absolutely AWFUL.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

The part that we see is what he gets paid for. Plenty of players have been 'fired' for doing well except during the games.

Capers job is to put guys in position to make plays. I'll ask for the 9,000th time, how was it Capers fault that Shields didn't stop that 2-point conversion? How was it Capers fault that the Packers' best corner got beaten by an undrafted WR who would be, at best, the fifth WR on the Packers? Coaches put players in position. The PLAYERS have the make the plays.

 

[Carl]

Capers job is to put guys in position to make plays. I'll ask for the 9,000th time, how was it Capers fault that Shields didn't stop that 2-point conversion? How was it Capers fault that the Packers' best corner got beaten by an undrafted WR who would be, at best, the fifth WR on the Packers? Coaches put players in position. The PLAYERS have the make the plays.

The call on that two point play was perfect. It looked the Packers knew it was coming and it should have been stopped no problem. They ended up having Wilson throw up a prayer. Unfortunately, Haha, completely whiffed.

Great call with poor execution.

 

[TJV]

Our perceptions sometimes clash with reality; no doubt that’s partially because we care a lot more about problems with the Packers than those of other teams.