How is it that Capers still has a job with the Green Bay Packers?

[Pokerbrat2000]

As quite a few posters have pointed out, the Packers have struck out quite often with high round defensive draft choices in the last 10 years. I'm not a stats guy, so maybe we are on par with other teams for draft failures? But, for a team that builds within and doesn't sign many FA's this is a tough hole to dig yourself out of. As a result, we have (IMO) an "average defense". Alone, our defense is not going to win many games for us, but our offense when clicking, can compensate for that and win those games. The key to our defense in its present state of talent, is forcing turnovers. We saw it with Mathews interception last Sunday.

So who takes the blame for either poor draft decisions or maybe poor coaching of those draft choices? Think that blame can be spread around the whole organization. Your defensive coordinator can lift the level of play up to some extent, but he isn't the one out there missing tackles, blowing an assignment or taking a stupid penalty.

In Rogers and the Packers Offense I trust. We will be just fine with an average defense.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As quite a few posters have pointed out, the Packers have struck out quite often with high round defensive draft choices in the last 10 years. I'm not a stats guy, so maybe we are on par with other teams for draft failures?

The Press Gazette put a lot of time into researching Thompson's draft success this offseason. While I don't think the data distinguishes between offensive and defensive players it shows TT has been pretty succesful.

Here's the link to the story:

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sp...data-shows-just-good-thompson-draft/30475885/

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

The Press Gazette put a lot of time into researching Thompson's draft success this offseason. While I don't think the data distinguishes between offensive and defensive players it shows TT has been pretty succesful.

No doubt in my mind that TT has been a force, top to bottom in drafting talent and signing UDFA's. I think where we have been hurt in recent years is on defense, and the impact (or lack there of) that our top picks have had. IMO, this is why we currently have just an average Defense. Our top two players, Matthews and Peppers were a first round choice and a FA signing. Maybe TT needs to look a bit harder each year at signing 1-2 FA's on defense?

Also to take into consideration, is where we have been drafting in the first round and subsequent rounds. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that with our past success, we pick later in each round.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think where we have been hurt in recent years is on defense, and the impact (or lack there of) that our top picks have had. IMO, this is why we currently have just an average Defense.

Yeah, no arguments from me about it.

Maybe TT needs to look a bit harder each year at signing 1-2 FA's on defense?

I've been advocating for Thompson to selectively address positions of need in free agency. I'm not talking about going after big names but second- or third-tier players providing an upgrade.

 

[Ogsponge]

I thought our defense played extremely well in Seattle in the NFCCG. Our defense didn't lose us that game. Special teams did and Rodgers not being Rodgers due to his limping injury.

But I guess our D was garbage then too

must resist urge to go on a tangent again because people think giving up 200 yards and 20 points in 5:35 is not blowing the game. In the name of all that is holy the first 55 minutes of that game do not live in a bubble. 55 minutes of awesome defense does not cancel out 5 minutes of possibly the worst defense ever played in an NFCCG...

The defense blew it, it is the defense's fault. It is the special teams fault, it is the offense's fault. No one facet of the Packers lost that game. Every piece played a part and with 200 yards and 20 points given up in 5:35 the defense absolutely was a huge, glaring and obvious contributing factor to the loss of that game. Saying anything otherwise is just silly.

 

[Ogsponge]

I think if our D plays that well in every game, we rarely lose. I'd take those 55 minutes every single week and if our offense performs and our Special teams are just average we'll be blowing everyone out of the ******* water. Games will be over by the middle of the 2nd quarter.

there are still 5 other minutes to play every game and if they are the same as the 5 minutes in the NFCCG, that is not acceptable.

 

[gopkrs]

I am wondering about the middle stats. Is up the middle right off the center? Or can it also be starting left or right and then cutting back into the middle? Up the gut is what I would call the middle. Off the left shoulder of the left guard...not so much.

 

[Mondio]

there are still 5 other minutes to play every game and if they are the same as the 5 minutes in the NFCCG, that is not acceptable.

I guess you didn't read the part about tears in the fabric of time and space and all that happening on the same day?

Anyway, like said, if our offense performs and our special teams are average and the defense plays like that for 55 minutes we don't lose.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I am wondering about the middle stats. Is up the middle right off the center? Or can it also be starting left or right and then cutting back into the middle? Up the gut is what I would call the middle. Off the left shoulder of the left guard...not so much.

I considered a run of both sides of the center but not outside the guards as an attempt through the middle.

 

[Ogsponge]

I considered a run of both sides of the center but not outside the guards as an attempt through the middle.

is that how "official" stats people do it? I would think anything in the A or B gap is up the middle and anything outside of that is left or right?

 

[TJV]

Forte's 22 yard run on their first series is an interesting play regarding left, middle, or right. The play is intended to go off LG - perhaps off his outside shoulder. In spite of being double-teamed, Daniels does a good job of holding the point. Raji lines up over OC and gets chipped but holds his spot too. Pennel who lined up over the RT rushes straight ahead and takes himself out of the play. It looks to me like Forte runs about where the RG lined up. But the big run IMO was because of Pennel's error (even though Barrington and Richardson initially went to their right and also took themselves out of the play). Even though it started to the O's left, it went more through the middle but was the fault of a player playing against the O's right. So should that be scored against the D's middle or left? Here's the video. The best view for this purpose begins about 18 seconds in.

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[Deleted member 6794]

is that how "official" stats people do it? I would think anything in the A or B gap is up the middle and anything outside of that is left or right?

I don't know if there are any official stats about the direction of runs.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Forte's 22 yard run on their first series is an interesting play regarding left, middle, or right. The play is intended to go off LG - perhaps off his outside shoulder. In spite of being double-teamed, Daniels does a good job of holding the point. Raji lines up over OC and gets chipped but holds his spot too. Pennel who lined up over the RT rushes straight ahead and takes himself out of the play. It looks to me like Forte runs about where the RG lined up. But the big run IMO was because of Pennel's error (even though Barrington and Richardson initially went to their right and also took themselves out of the play). Even though it started to the O's left, it went more through the middle but was the fault of a player playing against the O's right. So should that be scored against the D's middle or left? Here's the video. The best view for this purpose begins about 18 seconds in.

I agree that it's sometimes close to impossible to correctly score the direction of a run play and that one is a great example for how tough it actually is.

PFF scored it as a run between the center and right guard.

 

[Half Empty]

And all of them had great success and became immediate impact players.

Which, unfortunately, is pretty much the definition of the guys the Packers have kept, in addition to the cuts.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Which, unfortunately, is pretty much the definition of the guys the Packers have kept, in addition to the cuts.

True, so I think it's fair to assume that's mostly on the talent evaluators in the front office though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I agree that it's sometimes close to impossible to correctly score the direction of a run play and that one is a great example for how tough it actually is.

PFF scored it as a run between the center and right guard.

As for TJV's question, I have little doubt this should be called a middle run in a statistical schema that has only left-middle-right. I would consider anything inside the OT's left shoulder (A or B gap) as middle, in agreement with Osponge's comment above.

In this case, the OG trapped left and Forte ran between the C and OT. Looking at the end zone shot, Forte crossed the line about two steps left of the hash right off the C's right shoulder...that's right about where the A gap was at the snap. So even if one thinks of "middle" as inside the OG, this play should still qualify.

Therefore, I agree with PFF's scoring. Again, the key is the C. He's blocking straight-up on the NT and Forte ran right off his shoulder...that's where the A gap was before the RG trapped.

This scoring has the particular virtue of applying due justice. A "middle" interpretation or PFF's C-OG gap call puts responsibility where it belongs...on Pennel for leaving a gap a truck could drive through.

Perhaps the more interesting statistical issue is the fact the right side of the defense did their job, bottling up Forte, but yardage stats by gap or location award them no credit for their play.

And yes, these are not official stats.

 

[Carl]

Shout out to Capers and defense for tonight's performance!

 

[HardRightEdge]

Shout out to those untalented defensive players Thompson doesn't know how to draft.

Intensity, striking instead of ankle biting, pursuit, gang tackling...lets see if this can become a habit. I'll reserve judgement on that point.

Matthews in the middle all day calling the signals...is that what energized these guys?

Credit where credit is due...that was an outstanding defensive game plan. There were even adjustments made when Wilson started making hay with his legs, something we've not seen in the past.

 

[Gutpunch77]

I gotta tell ya this win helps

 

[Joe Nor Cal Packer]

Shout out to those untalented defensive players Thompson doesn't know how to draft.

Intensity, striking instead of ankle biting, pursuit, gang tackling...lets see if this can become a habit. I'll reserve judgement on that point.

Matthews in the middle all day calling the signals...is that what energized these guys?

Credit where credit is due...that was an outstanding defensive game plan. There were even adjustments made when Wilson started making hay with his legs, something we've not seen in the past.

Watching the D tonight, after last week's game.... Total Jekyl and Hyde. At least we know they can get it done. Kudos to the coaches. This was an inspired performance. Even Mathstay produced.

Whatever the coaches said, whatever kool aid they drank, bottle it up and pop the cork every week.

I saw real tackling and aggressiveness. Physically dominating? Ask Lynch and Graham. Maybe Wilson is worth all that money because he was the only seahag to play until the end. But even his will and talent couldn't do it.

And finally, to the much maligned Dom Capers, thank you for adjusting to the read and keeping a lineman home now and then. With Lynch and Wilson, the read can't be shut down. But Capers adjusted and Carroll didn't.

That just felt good. All around. And watch out for Ty M. With Jordy out, Adams down for this game, the young man made the most out of his opportunities. Watch out Davante. There's someone who wants your position on the depth chart.

 

[JBlood]

I don't know if there are any official stats about the direction of runs.

I know you've seen these and while the stats aren't "official", they give a pretty good picture of the strengths and weaknesses a front 7 has on its R, L, and center: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl2014

 

[JBlood]

Whatever the coaches said, whatever kool aid they drank, bottle it up and pop the cork every week.

Amen.

 

[longtimefan]

Credit where credit is due...that was an outstanding defensive game plan. There were even adjustments made when Wilson started making hay with his legs, something we've not seen in the past.

53 mins in nfccg

 

[Sunshinepacker]

must resist urge to go on a tangent again because people think giving up 200 yards and 20 points in 5:35 is not blowing the game. In the name of all that is holy the first 55 minutes of that game do not live in a bubble. 55 minutes of awesome defense does not cancel out 5 minutes of possibly the worst defense ever played in an NFCCG...

The defense blew it, it is the defense's fault. It is the special teams fault, it is the offense's fault. No one facet of the Packers lost that game. Every piece played a part and with 200 yards and 20 points given up in 5:35 the defense absolutely was a huge, glaring and obvious contributing factor to the loss of that game. Saying anything otherwise is just silly.

Defense was at fault, can't argue that....but they deserve maybe 10-15% of the blame. When trying to correct the problems that occurred in that game, coaches need to spend way more time on offensive playcalling and special teams than defensive corrections.

 

[gopkrs]

No three man rushes! Agree with HardRight that Mathews in the middle is key. Everyone played well I think. Hope Boyd is OK.