Hire Mike Zimmer for DC

[MadCat]

It's a big deal primarily because the offense also played a bad team and didn't do well.

Totally agree on the day, but my point was that in general the defense is nowhere near as good as advertised or expected, despite all of the organization’s investment in it, which is a total shame. And I’m aware they are missing guys... just like the offense.

 

[Magooch]

There has been bad stretches and they have underwhelmed. But I think it’s more situational spots.

Who is responsible for that?

Top 15 in points allowed.

(At #15, for the record...and by that same measure they have only played 3 teams that are top-15 offenses.)
Points allowed and passing yards allowed is pretty much the only way to take a positive view at this defense as it stands.
25th in takeaways. 28th in rush yards allowed. 19th in preventing scoring drive. 19th in expected points contribution...etc.

As far as I know on the basis of total investment (money+draft capital) this should be seen as the "most talented" defense in the league. When it comes to actual results, it's barely a top-half defense on its best day. If that doesn't reflect back on the person in charge of that unit, then it should reflect back on the one who assembled it. Your pick, I guess, but someone has to be held accountable.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Yeah, that sword has two edges. Look at that drive. Multiple tackles by guys named Garvin, McDuffie, Wyatt, Wilson, Enagbare and Ford. Gary and Campbell were not playing. We weren't playing with a full deck all day either.

There's not a single team fully healthy at this point in the season. The bottom line is they didn't get the job done on that drive.

No one got ejected yesterday. But look at the penalties on defense that killed us. They may be borderline calls but it is as if the defense feels it has to make a play because our offense can no longer win games.

Great, now it's the fault of the offense that the defense takes penalties as well

 

[PikeBadger]

There's not a single team fully healthy at this point in the season. The bottom line is they didn't get the job done on that drive.



Great, now it's the fault of the offense that the defense takes penalties as well

The real bottom line is the defense played plenty good enough to win. We lost because the offense couldn't score.

 

[OldSchool101]

15 points

This wasn’t defensive fault again

Worse def in the league and you get 9 points?

I could’ve thrown that ball to Bakhtiari better. In my first try no practice. At worst I might throw it long but I can hit a 5-10 yarder

 

[Mondio]

I could’ve thrown that ball to Bakhtiari better. In my first try no practice. At worst I might throw it long but I can hit a 10 yarder.

I bet you wouldn't have running hard right looking up and having a 300lber running full speed at you that came right up the middle completely unblocked by Zach Tom and the right tackle. as soon as rodgers stopped his action to turn and throw the ball back that DLineman was bearing down and within 3 yards, there was no step in to the throw. It was continue falling away and toss it up. It was a bad pass, but it wasn't an easy pass. Some of you guys either have zero appreciation for what is happening on the field or you're just salivating to finally rip Rodgers up and disregarding everything going on.

Yeah it was a bad pass, he couldn't get anything on it, and neither would you have. Sorry.

 

[OldSchool101]

(At #15, for the record...and by that same measure they have only played 3 teams that are top-15 offenses.)

The Packers have played the exact league average without splitting hairs. 16th rated Offensive averaged.
They have not played 1 bottom 5 Offense (bottom feeder) this season
The assertion they’ve played mostly bad Offenses isn’t grounded.

Points allowed and passing yards allowed is pretty much the only way to take a positive view at this defense as it stands.

Points allowed is by far the most important variable there is. It’s almost comical to say that isn’t a positive way to look at a Defense.

I bet you wouldn't have running hard right looking up and having a 300lber running full speed at you that came right up the middle completely unblocked by Zach Tom and the right tackle.

I didn’t say I wouldn’t need to be carted off afterwards
But I’d make that throw like an Astros World Series Relief Pitcher! I can punt too! I took my daughters Dodge Ball and punted it over my 2 story home and into the trees it was a thing of beauty it went so high. Unfortunately it got stuck in the trees and she’s mad at me for losing her ball so I’m out $8. I’m still praying a good wind gust will come my way

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The real bottom line is the defense played plenty good enough to win. We lost because the offense couldn't score.

There's no doubt you're right about that. My point is that while the defense has actually been pretty good for stretches during games they don't get the job done with the game on the line. That's what I expect out of an elite unit though.

The Packers have played the exact league average without splitting hairs. 16th rated Offensive averaged.

According to Football Outsiders the Packers defense has faced only the 22nd toughest schedule in the league.

Points allowed is by far the most important variable there is. It’s almost comical to say that isn’t a positive way to look at a Defense.

True, the Packers rank 15th in points allowed after talk all offseason long about them being an elite unit. That's not good enough.

 

[Magooch]

Points allowed is by far the most important variable there is. It’s almost comical to say that isn’t a positive way to look at a Defense.

Well, then it's a good thing that I didn't say that "isn't a positive way to look at a defense." Go back and re-read; I said it is one of the *only* ways you can take a positive look at this defense right now as it's generally average or below-average in just about every other regard.

As it stands we have the 7th-most expensive defense in the league by measure of cap expenditure and I suspect when you factor in draft capital spent as well we'd have by far the most "costly" (draft capital+cap spending) defense in the league, and the best we can say for it right now is that it's wholly middle-of-the-road in points allowed and average to below-average in most other measurables. If that's a satisfactory, "good enough" result for you then that's your prerogative but I suspect we will not find much agreement in that regard.

 

[milani]

There's no doubt you're right about that. My point is that while the defense has actually been pretty good for stretches during games they don't get the job done with the game on the line. That's what I expect out of an elite unit though.



According to Football Outsiders the Packers defense has faced only the 22nd toughest schedule in the league.



True, the Packers rank 15th in points allowed after talk all offseason long about them being an elite unit. That's not good enough.

There were 3 instances in which they made the big stop that enabled us to win 3 games.
1) They kept Fields out of the end zone in the 4th quarter.
2) They stopped Brady from getting the 2 point conversion even though there was a penalty.
3) They forced the Pats and their 3rd string QB to punt when right on the cusp of FG range.
On paper our schedule was not that tough. That is why we expected to be 6-3 instead of 3-6. But the rest of the schedule is very difficult. That is why our chances of making the postseason are virtually non-existent.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

As it stands we have the 7th-most expensive defense in the league by measure of cap expenditure and I suspect when you factor in draft capital spent as well we'd have by far the most "costly" (draft capital+cap spending) defense in the league, and the best we can say for it right now is that it's wholly middle-of-the-road in points allowed and average to below-average in most other measurables.

According to Over The Cap the Packers currently rank 12th in most cap space spend on defense for this season. I wholeheartedly agree that they haven't played up to potential anyway.

 

[Packerbacker1996]

Fire Lafleur and here Dan Quinn as HC for 2023.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Fire Lafleur and here Dan Quinn as HC for 2023.

I don't believe the Packers will even think about moving on from MLF after this season but if they do Sean Payton would be on top of my list to replace him.

 

[Mondio]

I don't believe the Packers will even think about moving on from MLF after this season but if they do Sean Payton would be on top of my list to replace him.

I think the Saints still "own" him and we'd have to part with draft picks and cash to get him. I think MLF is a good NFL mind, I don't think he commands a lot of respect though

 

[OldSchool101]

According to Football Outsiders the Packers defense has faced only the 22nd toughest schedule in the league.

Not true. I’m not sure where that inaccurate info is supplied?

These are the scoring ratings of every opponent real time. Starting with most recent. The Packers Defense plays opposing Offense not “teams”
17th
6th
25th
15th
23rd
11th
24th
18th
16th

The mean is 17.22

If we want to talk Packers verses SOS? Our opponent boasts a .559 Winning record. Obviously .500 is a good ball park average schedule. Anything higher is tougher and only a couple teams boast over .600 level opponents.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I think the Saints still "own" him and we'd have to part with draft picks and cash to get him.

You're right about that. In that case it wouldn't be a good idea to hire him.

Not true. I’m not sure where that inaccurate info is supplied?

As mentioned above the numbers are according to Football Outsiders. They don't use points scored or allowed as their primary metric but one called DVOA, which is explained here:

DVOA: Explained in Depth | Football Outsiders

One running back runs for three yards. Another running back runs for three yards. Which is the better run? This sounds like a stupid question, but it isn’t. In fact, this question is at the heart of nearly all of the analysis on Football Outsiders.

www.footballoutsiders.com

These are the scoring ratings of every opponent real time. Starting with most recent. The Packers Defense plays opposing Offense not “teams”
17th
6th
25th
15th
23rd
11th
24th
18th
16th

The mean is 17.22

Those numbers are actually the ones being off as you need to use points scored per game as teams have played a different amount of games because of bye weeks.

 

[ARPackFan]

I don't believe the Packers will even think about moving on from MLF after this season but if they do Sean Payton would be on top of my list to replace him.

IMO, Sean Payton is one of the best offensive minds in the game and he's a great HC. TT made a mistake in not hiring him in 2006.