Ha Ha Clinton extension

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Deleted member 6794

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I view Jones and Brice as potential cheap replacements next year. I don't want to hand one of them the starting spot either and if Clinton- Dix turns to be a very good starter I'd just pay him - next year. I just don't see a reason to extend him now at his current asking price is all.

Jones and Brice could turn out to be cheap replacements for Clinton-Dix but as of right now it's completely uncertain if any of them will develop into a decent starter.

All I'm saying is that it might be a smart move to extend him now as the Packers could save a decent amount of money if HHCD performs at a high level next season. I don't expect it to happen as there are question marks about his performance and attitude though.
 

Conan Troutman

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Jones and Brice could turn out to be cheap replacements for Clinton-Dix but as of right now it's completely uncertain if any of them will develop into a decent starter.

All I'm saying is that it might be a smart move to extend him now as the Packers could save a decent amount of money if HHCD performs at a high level next season. I don't expect it to happen as there are question marks about his performance and attitude though.

Absolutely they could never amount to anything, I agree with that. If they don't look good in camp, I'd like the Packers to sign a someone like Boston if he's still on the market so Clinton-Dix can stay at SS and draft another one next year.

It could be the smart move, that's right. I certainly wouldn't mind an extension if he lowers his number just by a million or two. Or maybe extend him at some point during the season if he can cast aside those doubts.
 

PikeBadger

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The problem with the Packers having to start Jennings and McMillian was that both of them were awful. Period. Once again, I believe Clinton-Dix has the ability to develop into a very good free safety with both Jones and Brice being completely unproven. Therefore I would like the team to re-sign him, provided the coaching staff is fine with his attitude.



It's possible that not re-signing Clinton-Dix before the start of this season ends up costing the Packers significant money and cap space in the long haul though.
I see Dix’s future as a SS and this year it will be interesting to see if Jones makes a nice jump as a SS. Curious to see how Brice does this year and whether any other FS options appear going forward to the 19 season.
 
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gopkrs

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Absolutely they could never amount to anything, I agree with that. If they don't look good in camp, I'd like the Packers to sign a someone like Boston if he's still on the market so Clinton-Dix can stay at SS and draft another one next year.

It could be the smart move, that's right. I certainly wouldn't mind an extension if he lowers his number just by a million or two. Or maybe extend him at some point during the season if he can cast aside those doubts.
I am looking forward to watching Brice and have hopes he will do very well.
 

Mondio

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If Bruce can stay healthy, he could easily be an impact player for us. I think he has everything he needs to be very good back there in pass and run defense.
 
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Absolutely they could never amount to anything, I agree with that. If they don't look good in camp, I'd like the Packers to sign a someone like Boston if he's still on the market so Clinton-Dix can stay at SS and draft another one next year.

I highly doubt the Packers are in the market for a free agent safety.

I see Dix’s future as a SS and this year it will be interesting to see if Jones makes a nice jump as a SS. Curious to see how Brice does this year and whether any other FS options appear going forward to the 19 season.

Brice might have some tools teams are looking for in a free safety but there's a reason he went undrafted in 2016 and I'm not convinced I would feel comfortable with him being pencilled in as the starter at FS.
 

Mondio

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If Bruce can stay healthy, he could easily be an impact player for us. I think he has everything he needs to be very good back there in pass and run defense.
I don't know if it was my fat fingers hitting the "u" instead of the "i" or if it was my damn phone autocorrecting Brice to Bruce, but I did mean Brice and my computer won't autocorrect it
 
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Tramon Williams is under contract for two years. He played a few games at SS in Cleveland, the final 4 games of 2016 I think it was. Evidently he looked pretty good doing it. FS may not be a stretch. So there's that.

2019 Cap Number: $6.375 mil
2019 Dead Cap: $1.625 mil
2019 Cap Savings: $4.750 mil

I wouldn't be surprised if he sees a fair amount of snaps this season at one safety position or another if there's an injury or if Brice and Jones can't seal a job. Then a judgement can be made.

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Tramon Williams is under contract for two years. He played a few games at SS in Cleveland, the final 4 games of 2016 I think it was. Evidently he looked pretty good doing it. FS may not be a stretch. So there's that.

I don't believe Tramon has the range to successfully line up at free safety. He never had blazing speed (4.57 40 back in 2006) and is most likely even a tick slower 12 years later.
 
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I don't believe Tramon has the range to successfully line up at free safety. He never had blazing speed (4.57 40 back in 2006) and is most likely even a tick slower 12 years later.
A couple of thoughts on that:

1) Micah Hyde ran a 4.56 at his Pro Day and he seems to have done allright at the position while his field speed doesn't look much better than that.

2) Williams' field speed was better than that during his time in Green Bay. What it is today I can't say. The fact he played perimeter corner last season with an 88.8 "high quality" grade from PFF, 1.2 points shy of "elite", suggests he has not lost much in the speed department.

3) Among defensive positions, "savvy" comes into play most at the FS position. Film study, reading the offensive formation, making pre-snap adjustments, reading the routes and the QB post-snap, and just plain old experience--all that stuff that goes into "anticipation" and compensates for that "tick slower" if there is one. This especially comes into play if the intent is to go with a lot of man D, which Pettine seems to be saying, where the FS is more free.

Like I said, we'll have to see Williams play one position or the other to make some judgement on his FS capability as a temporary solution in lieu of overpaying C-D in year 6 with a franchise tag or an extension. You're not going to get much of a FA replacement for Williams' $4.75 mil cap savings in 2019 with no subsequent year hangover if he were to prove adequate.

And it's not like the Packers did anything in this offseason to address the safety positions despite C-D being in a contract year, Burnett departing, Brice being injury prone, Jones' fit being a question mark, and Evans a ho hum kind of player. One factor in the Williams signing would have been position flexibility, including safety.

As it stands, were C-D to be injured, the most plausible options at this stage would be Brice FS/Jones SS or Williams FS/Brice or Jones SS. I would not rule out the latter option at this stage.

Nor would I rule out C-D FS/Williams SS come opening day if the young corners instill enough confidence. Then there's the possibility training camp and pre-season stars fall flat in money games requiring reshuffling. That happens. And when you look across 5 nickel D backfield positions, games will be missed to injury also requiring reshuffling.

With this D backfield, at this stage, there is little to rule in or out for this year or next.
 
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Heyjoe4

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Every 5th. year option player wants an extension. Wanting and getting are two different things.
Amen to that. And he didn’t have a good year. Can’t make the same mistake made with Cobb. HaHa should seriously shut up and play his best.
 

Mondio

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Amen to that. And he didn’t have a good year. Can’t make the same mistake made with Cobb. HaHa should seriously shut up and play his best.
I don't think Cobb was a mistake other than he hasn't held up really well. Injuries and then our QB last season have hampered him as much as anything. I question Dix's ability and his work ethic. I don't have those questions with Cobb, just his durability.
 
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Amen to that. And he didn’t have a good year. Can’t make the same mistake made with Cobb. HaHa should seriously shut up and play his best.
Yeah, he's gotten pretty defensive about his play and he's gotten kinda grabby lately.

Saying he would have spent less time mourning his granny if there was any money in it is not a good look for anybody. I wouldn't necessarily judge his sentiments toward granny. But if he was not that close to granny he might as well come to that brief period of the lightest of light work, the equivalent of the week between Christmas and New Years for a white collar office worker. Many of you guys know what I mean. ;) And for gosh sakes you're not supposed to publicly put a monetary value on your feelings for the dearly departed.

I'll never understand players skipping a voluntary OTA in protest of a contract, if that's what this is. It ingratiates you toward no one. He might have taken notice that Rodgers is still waiting, and he stands far back in the line behind that consideration. And dude, you are not even Le'Veon Bell.

It's not like he couldn't have seen this coming. The 5th. year option always says the player has not done enough after year 3 to be regarded as a long term core player befitting a nice second contract. At least it says he's getting the chance to prove that up. Evidently, the Packers agree he was not really Pro Bowl calibre after that year 3 or there would have been a priority on extending him as was done with Adams. Capers or not, the fact they gave him play call responsibility and then took it away should have told him there was some measure of disappointment.

C-D needs to take a deep breath and follow Rodgers advice: Relax! Or better yet, "Relax and shut up!" ;) He's putting $6 mil in his pocket this year no matter what he does and he's got a lot to prove. And no matter what he does this season he'll be playing somewhere next year for somebody with a need for at least decent coin. Saying dumb stuff doesn't exactly help his cause in Green Bay or elsewhere.
 
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D

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Among defensive positions, "savvy" comes into play most at the FS position. Film study, reading the offensive formation, making pre-snap adjustments, reading the routes and the QB post-snap, and just plain old experience--all that stuff that goes into "anticipation" and compensates for that "tick slower" if there is one. This especially comes into play if the intent is to go with a lot of man D, which Pettine seems to be saying, where the FS is more free.

Like I said, we'll have to see Williams play one position or the other to make some judgement on his FS capability as a temporary solution in lieu of overpaying C-D in year 6 with a franchise tag or an extension.

In my opinion Tramon being extremely savvy results in him being able to perform at a high level lining up at cornerback while being up there in age. There aren't any elite free safeties being significantly older than 30 years though with Reggie Nelson most likely being the best of the group. He's played the position for all of his career though.

Amen to that. And he didn’t have a good year. Can’t make the same mistake made with Cobb. HaHa should seriously shut up and play his best.

The difference being that Cobb had a great season entering free agency though.

It's not like he couldn't have seen this coming. The 5th. year option always says the player has not done enough after year 3 to be regarded as a long term core player befitting a nice second contract. At least it says he's getting the chance to prove that up. Evidently, the Packers agree he was not really Pro Bowl calibre after that year 3 or there would have been a priority on extending him as was done with Adams.

Teams definitely prefer to use the fifth year option even on elite players as it secures having them available at a decent price for another season. With Adams being a second round selection the Packers didn't have that option though.
 
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HardRightEdge

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In my opinion Tramon being extremely savvy results in him being able to perform at a high level lining up at cornerback while being up there in age. There aren't any elite free safeties being significantly older than 30 years though with Reggie Nelson most likely being the best of the group. He's played the position for all of his career though.
Conversely, there aren't any elite CBs significantly older than 30. Now, do you really believe that Williams was just shy of elite last year as the PFF grade indicates, covering #2 wideouts? I doubt it. That grade indicates a good season but there are surely circumstantial factors that went into that grade. I've yet to see any indication that PFF factors in the level of competition. For example, here's a detailed description of how they grade linemen with no reference to the competition:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-how-we-grade-offensive-and-defensive-linemen

It's not uncommon for a guy to get an outlier high PFF grade for one year, without much evidence in prior or subsequent years that the guy is a high level performer. Besides covering #2's, it would take a deep dive into who those #2's were, something I'm not going to bother with while there is also no evidence that PFF does that either.

I cited Williams grade merely to indicate that it is evidence he likely is not running slower than his Pro Day time in scoring that well with PFF even if it is against #2's.

Historically, there are instances of elite corners switching to safety once they pass the age 30 mark, the Woodsons for instance, Darren and Charles, to name two. Now, I wouldn't compare Williams to those players. A better analogue would be Terence Newman, plugged in at free safety in 2015 at the age of 37, a position he had not previously played, due to a rash of injuries:

https://www.twincities.com/2015/12/...r-terence-newman-shift-to-safety-no-big-deal/

Do I think it likely we'll see Williams at the position in the next two years? My previous comments should indicate I do not. Might circumstances necessitate it? I'd say that's possible. Might he be plan B if C-D is injured? I would not rule that out. Might he be plan B for next season if C-D is not re-signed and no alternative emerges? I'd say that's possible in the "who else yah got?" equation. Might he be installed at SS due to injury or performance issues? Sure.

The more likely scenario? One of King, Alexander or Jackson "doesn't get it" by opening day with Williams starting at one of the corner positions.

The optimal outlook? All the Lake Wobegone children prove to be above average, Williams comes off the bench in dime, and starts when there is the inevitable injury to one of the 5 DB starters, where going 80 for 80 in starts among those 5 guys is nearly impossible.

Teams definitely prefer to use the fifth year option even on elite players as it secures having them available at a decent price for another season. With Adams being a second round selection the Packers didn't have that option though.
While Adams was not subject to the 5th year option, he was extended, probably at the first day of eligibilty. Rookie draftees cannot be extended until the conclusion of their 3rd. season. The Packers did not have to do that. They could have waited risking the price goes up; the same applies to the 5th. year option first rounders.

Anybody likes to pay less for anything, but there are other factors at play. I do not think teams who have an elite core player choose to exercise the 5th. year option and then have the player play under that option unless they view the salary demands as excessive or they are cap strapped. It's easy to point to Donald, Mack or Clowney contracted under the option for 2018. But will they play under that option by opening day without an extension? And if not, will they still be with that team when all is said and done because of onerous salary demands? Or are they already viewed as unaffordable and playing elsewhere in year 6 is a foregone conclusion?

We have to go back to the 2013 draft to see which players actually played for their drafting teams in year 5 under the option and then were still with that team in year 6. That would indicate the frequency of teams looking to squeeze a buck as long as they could while regarding the player as necessary. I didn't know what I'd find, but the results are pretty interesting.

There was not one single instance of a player working under his 5th. year option without an extension who subsequently signed a long term deal starting in the 6th. year. In fact, only two players working under the 5th. year option signed with his drafting team for a 6th. year, Ansah under a franchise tag and Eifert under a one year deal.

There are several examples of guys who played under the option with an extension signed prior to year 5 starting in year 6, but those cases have signing bonuses back-flowing into higher year 5 cash and cap. Others renegotiated prior to year 4 in essence or in fact wiping out the option altogether.

The idea that teams use the 5th. year option to squeeze out some bucks with the intent of signing elite players to long term deals starting in year 6 doesn't hold up in this most recent example year.

Here are the outcomes of those 2013 5th. year options.

Option Exercised:

1 Kansas City Chiefs Eric Fisher OT Central Michigan - signed a 4 year extension prior to year 4
4 Philadelphia Eagles Lane Johnson OT Oklahoma - technically option ineligible because he signed an extention before the option exercise date
5 Detroit Lions Ezekiel Ansah DE Brigham Young - played under 5th. year option after a 2 sack 4th. year; currently franchised for 6th. year at $17 mil after a 12 sack 5th. year
8 St. Louis Rams Tavon Austin WR West Virginia - signed a 4 year extension prior to year 4
11 San Diego Chargers D.J. Fluker OT Alabama - cut after year 4 before the option would become guaranteed
13 New York Jets Sheldon Richardson DE Missouri - traded to Seattle before year 5 and played under the option as a rent-a-player; signed a one year deal with the Vikings for 2018
14 Carolina Panthers Star Lotulelei DT Utah - played under 5th. year option then went FA signing a lucrative long term deal with Buffalo
15 New Orleans Saints Kenny Vaccaro SS Texas - played under the 5th. year option; is currently an unsigned FA
18 San Francisco 49ers Eric Reid FS LSU - played under 5th. year option; is currently an unsigned FA
19 New York Giants Justin Pugh OT Syracuse - played under the 5th. year option then went FA signing a lucrative long term deal with Arizona
20 Chicago Bears Kyle Long OG Oregon - signed a 4 year extension prior to year 4
21 Cincinnati Bengals Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame - played under the 5th. year option; signed a one year, $4.6 mil deal for 2018 after an injury plagued 2017
22 Atlanta Falcons Desmond Trufant CB Washington - signed a 5 year extension prior to year 5
23 Minnesota Vikings Sharrif Floyd DT Florida - cut before year 5 but after that option year was guaranteed; the Vikings claim that a non-football related injury voided the guarantee is under dispute
25 Minnesota Vikings Xavier Rhodes CB Florida State - signed a 5 year extension prior to year 5
27 Houston Texans DeAndre Hopkins WR Clemson - signed a 5 year extension prior to year 5
30 St. Louis Rams Alec Ogletree OLB Georgia - signed a 4 year extension prior to year 5, then traded to the Giants after year 5 with the Giant's converting a 2018 roster bonus to signing bonus in a "cap friendly" move
31 Dallas Cowboys Travis Frederick C Wisconsin - signed a 6 year extnesion prior to year 4

Options Not Exercised:

2 Jacksonville Jaguars Luke Joeckel OT Texas A&M
3 Miami Dolphins Dion Jordan DE Oregon - ineligible under indefinite suspension
6 Cleveland Browns Barkevious Mingo OLB LSU
7 Arizona Cardinals Jonathan Cooper OG North Carolina - traded to New England after season 3; New England did not exercise
9 New York Jets Dee Milliner CB Alabama
10 Tennessee Titans Chance Warmack OG Alabama
12 Oakland Raiders D.J. Hayden CB Alabama
16 Buffalo Bills EJ Manuel QB Florida State
17 Pittsburgh Steelers Jarvis Jones OLB Georgia
24 Indianapolis Colts Bjoern Werner OLB Florida State - released prior to eligibility
26 Green Bay Packers Datone Jones DE UCLA
28 Denver Broncos Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina
29 Minnesota Vikings Cordarrelle Patterson WR Tennessee
32 Baltimore Ravens Matt Elam FS Florida
 
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thequick12

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Jones and Brice could turn out to be cheap replacements for Clinton-Dix but as of right now it's completely uncertain if any of them will develop into a decent starter.

All I'm saying is that it might be a smart move to extend him now as the Packers could save a decent amount of money if HHCD performs at a high level next season. I don't expect it to happen as there are question marks about his performance and attitude though.

Can't pay this dude as a top safety in this league no way no how he's not a playmaker. If we want to pay a safety top dollar on an extension then just about our only option is to make a trade with the Seahawks
 
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Can't pay this dude as a top safety in this league no way no how he's not a playmaker. If we want to pay a safety top dollar on an extension then just about our only option is to make a trade with the Seahawks

I definitely don't want the Packers to pay Clinton-Day like an elite safety by any means.
 

thequick12

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I definitely don't want the Packers to pay Clinton-Day like an elite safety by any means.

But that's surely what he thinks he's worth and what he wants so if you sign him to an extension now you'd probably have to pay him like 8 million a year and while that's not elite safety money it's close enough that I don't believe you can allocate it to Clinton Dix
 
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But that's surely what he thinks he's worth and what he wants so if you sign him to an extension now you'd probably have to pay him like 8 million a year and while that's not elite safety money it's close enough that I don't believe you can allocate it to Clinton Dix

There's no reason for the Packers to extend Clinton-Dix at this point if he's asking to be paid like an elite player.
 

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I think Dix has gotten into the same place that Raji was a few years back. If he plays well this year we’ll likely lose him to deeper pocket books. If he’s average or below he won’t be worth what he thinks he is. Really hoping that a replacement appears from somewhere on the roster or we’ll be scrounging from the FA scrap heap. Would have liked to see a real FS drafted this past draft.
 

Mondio

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I think Dix has gotten into the same place that Raji was a few years back. If he plays well this year we’ll likely lose him to deeper pocket books. If he’s average or below he won’t be worth what he thinks he is. Really hoping that a replacement appears from somewhere on the roster or we’ll be scrounging from the FA scrap heap. Would have liked to see a real FS drafted this past draft.
If I wasn't so concerned about the style of how Brice plays and his body holding up, I would have no problems giving him every opportunity to own that roster spot and fill in behind him.
 
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If I wasn't so concerned about the style of how Brice plays and his body holding up, I would have no problems giving him every opportunity to own that roster spot and fill in behind him.

Brice is all but guaranteed to make the roster and figures to be the top backup at free safety entering this season.
 
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