Gutes thought process...

[rodell330]

He strikes me as the type of GM who won’t sit on his hands and watch Rodgers prime years wasted. I get the vibe from him that he wants to build the roster the way he wants, and he also wants to get rid of McCarthy and install an entirely new coaching staff under his regime. He’s a younger guy so he probably wants a much younger and innovative staff. He didn’t draft guys like Matthews, Bulaga, HAHA, Cobb, Monty, etc...so I can see him moving on from those guys and either drafting at that extension or not overpaying for them like Teddy always did.

If the Packers miss the playoffs this year I’m about 90% sure that MM will be out...that includes anyone on his staff. This team can look completely different in 2 yrs or so. With the best player in football Gute will probably do what he needs to do in order to get a couple more SB’s out of Rodgers. He’s probably kicking himself over not getting Mack tho.

 

[RepStar15]

He strikes me as the type of GM who won’t sit on his hands and watch Rodgers prime years wasted. I get the vibe from him that he wants to build the roster the way he wants, and he also wants to get rid of McCarthy and install an entirely new coaching staff under his regime. He’s a younger guy so he probably wants a much younger and innovative staff. He didn’t draft guys like Matthews, Bulaga, HAHA, Cobb, Monty, etc...so I can see him moving on from those guys and either drafting at that extension or not overpaying for them like Teddy always did.

If the Packers miss the playoffs this year I’m about 90% sure that MM will be out...that includes anyone on his staff. This team can look completely different in 2 yrs or so. With the best player in football Gute will probably do what he needs to do in order to get a couple more SB’s out of Rodgers. He’s probably kicking himself over not getting Mack tho.

Out of a list of realistic HC options, who would replace MM and get Rodgers a Super Bowl? We are .5 games back in the division, to be speaking about missing playoffs in Week 3 is overreaction Monday at its finest.

 

[rodell330]

Out of a list of realistic HC options, who would replace MM and get Rodgers a Super Bowl? We are .5 games back in the division, to be speaking about missing playoffs in Week 3 is overreaction Monday at its finest.

AGAIN, although we are .5 games back in the division this team should probably be 0-3 1-2 at best . Lest be honest the Packers are NOT the clear cut favorites to even win our division any longer. I hardly see this as an overreaction. There are candidates that can either do the same or better than MM I’m sure. Even Jeff Fisher could do what MM is doing with Rogers.

 

[Jerellh528]

They should be 2-1, could’ve easily been 3-0 as well if not for stupid mistakes like drops and penalties that should get cleaned up.

 

[AKCheese]

If they figure out a way to get A (as in ONE) more Super Bowl appearance out of Rodgers I’ll be pretty happy.

 

[Reese2017]

Do u think dean is the answer good luck,hell bring the price kid back

 

[James from IL]

I saw someone mention Jeff Fisher and stopped reading.... Please.. no... I don't want to go 7-9 every year.

 

[Mondio]

And even if Ted were here Bulaga, Cobb, Matthews, wouldn’t be getting 3rd contracts either LOL

 

[OldSchool101]

If I would’ve bet a $20 that Perry and Bulaga would’ve been out injured by week 3?
I would’ve won a nickel with those odds

 

[rodell330]

And even if Ted were here Bulaga, Cobb, Matthews, wouldn’t be getting 3rd contracts either LOL

I seriously think TT would’ve resigned Cobb. I kinda agree with the other two ..but I think Rodgers really likes Cobb, and that Gute May go to him and say hey I’m gonna make an offer...but that’s all I’m willing to offer...he takes it or leave it.

 

[rodell330]

I saw someone mention Jeff Fisher and stopped reading.... Please.. no... I don't want to go 7-9 every year.

I mentioned Jeff Fisher as a joke...as bad as he is I think he could win 10 games with Rodgers. I honestly see no difference between his coaching style and McCarthys

 

[CaptainCanuck]

If they figure out a way to get A (as in ONE) more Super Bowl appearance out of Rodgers I’ll be pretty happy.

One more Super Bowl will make all of us happy

 

[rmontro]

If they figure out a way to get A (as in ONE) more Super Bowl appearance out of Rodgers I’ll be pretty happy.

Change that to Super Bowl win and I'll agree with you.

 

[pizzle]

I hate to say it-but I think Gute might actually be hoping WE DON'T make the playoffs again this year so he can make an overhaul. Firing MM and everyone currently on the coaching staff to bring in someone he wants with a fresh, younger perspective is definitely a possibility. I think if Gute wants to do that the only way it's allowed is by forcing Mark Murphy to end the MM era and make a clean and deliberate break.

Since Gute came up under TT/due to certain details surrounding his hire this off-season I think this is all really playing out the worst possible way for us as fans. Pettine is MM's final "quick fix". But so far it's not looking like it's gonna be enough to work. We may have to sit thru the **** hitting the fan AGAIN this season and then another year of giving a new regime the chance to get their feet wet/a bunch of young talented players to figure it out until we're a real contender in 2020.

I feel like if Gute doesn't make a bold move like trade for Earl Thomas/some other impact defender we're not thinking about soon our answer is clear. Gute is playing the waiting game-and actually hoping the product on the field fails short-term so he can be given full reigns to improve it long-term.

 

[rmontro]

I hate to say it-but I think Gute might actually be hoping WE DON'T make the playoffs again this year so he can make an overhaul. Firing MM and everyone currently on the coaching staff to bring in someone he wants with a fresh, younger perspective is definitely a possibility.

You might be right about the younger perspective. I can't shake the feeling that the league is passing us by.

 

[Mondio]

If Gute is hoping we lose for any reason, then we hired the wrong guy. If he needs a losing season to justify doing what he wants, then he doesn't have the stones to be the man. If he needs better draft picks, then he's not good enough in his evaluation to begin with. If he's thinking about anything other than getting this team better and winning, then they can fire him today.

But cutting Jordy, his very nice working of the his first draft to get more firepower in a season in which we will have more space to do stuff AND still land a very good player in Alexander kind of tells me Gute is up for the job and not some chump looking for a way out like some might suggest.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

If Gute is hoping we lose for any reason, then we hired the wrong guy. If he needs a losing season to justify doing what he wants, then he doesn't have the stones to be the man. If he needs better draft picks, then he's not good enough in his evaluation to begin with. If he's thinking about anything other than getting this team better and winning, then they can fire him today.

I haven't followed this thread but it's ridiculous to suggest that Gutekunst wants the Packers to have a losing season for him to prove a point.

 

[rodell330]

I believe that had Gute had his way? MM would’ve been out the door after last season eneded....and the ONLY reason MM is even still here is because Rodgers got hurt. I don’t think the guy wants the team to suck in any way...but I do think he wants to build the roster a lot different than what TT has previously done...as well as bring in an entirely new younger coaching staff. As I’ve stated before, if the Packers miss the playoffs MM will be gone..if they make the playoffs?? and get embarrassed he will be gone.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I believe that had Gute had his way? MM would’ve been out the door after last season eneded....and the ONLY reason MM is even still here is because Rodgers got hurt. I don’t think the guy wants the team to suck in any way...but I do think he wants to build the roster a lot different than what TT has previously done...as well as bring in an entirely new younger coaching staff. As I’ve stated before, if the Packers miss the playoffs MM will be gone..if they make the playoffs?? and get embarrassed he will be gone.

It might be possible that Gutekunst prefers to hire a different coach than McCarthy but he definitely doesn't want the team to have a losing season because of it. In addition you have to realize that he doesn't have the authority to fire MM.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

While we are on the subject of Jordy Despite being in a new system and on a 0-3 team, "old man" Jordy is quietly having a nice season over there in Oakland.

11 catches
226 yds.
20.5 ave.
66 long
1 TD

 

[PackAttack12]

Even Jeff Fisher could do what MM is doing with Rogers.

Sorry, but that statement is absolutely asinine.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It might be possible that Gutekunst prefers to hire a different coach than McCarthy but he definthis itely doesn't want the team to have a losing season because of it. In addition you have to realize that he doesn't have the authority to fire MM.

Yup. You've hit on the key points already but I'll summarize and elaborate.

Gutekunst, McCarthy and Ball report to Murphy. McCarthy has more authority now than under Thompson. This reporting relationship may change as Gutekunst gains more experience but with McCarthy getting a one year extension through 2019 this offseason we should expect him to at least work through that contract.

This idea that the GM gathers the ingredients and the coach just cooks the dinner is overly simplistic, and it's especially so with this reporting relationship with a rookie GM and a long-tenured Super Bowl winning head coach with a lot of playoff appearances. In some organizations the head coach has more authority than the GM, Seattle and KC for example. While that might not be the case here, neither is Gutekunst making personnel decisions without a needs list provided by the head coach.

Or consider a signing such as with Wilkerson and Williams. Does anybody think Pettine did not have input on those decisions? Is it not possible Pettine advocated for those ideas, sending them up the line with McCarthy agreeing, Gutekunst going over the recent tape and agreeing, with Ball figuring how the cap numbers would work? Or might it have been a case of Gutekunst/Ball seeing how these guys might work within the needs/cap framework and then getting Pettine's buy in? One scenario or the other is likely.

Did Gutekunst just walk into the office one day and declare out of the blue, with no prior consultation with the other principals including Murphy, "I'm cutting Nelson and I'm signing Jimmy Graham for 3 years/$30 million." Not likely.

So, in a collective decision making process, where does responsibility lie? It's with the guy who pounded the table the hardest persuading the others toward consensus or with the guy who has the final say and the veto power if there is not clear consensus and that's Murphy.

I'm sure there are some autocratic GMs or high powered head coaches who swing a big d*ck and say, "my way or the highway". Reid, for example, did not like what Dorsey was doing and got him fired. Reid's calling the shots now.

"Chinese walls" between personnel and coaching or autocratic structures are uncommon and are bound to not last very long unless you want contentiousness and an unstable revolving door.

 

[PackAttack12]

While we are on the subject of Jordy Despite being in a new system and on a 0-3 team, "old man" Jordy is quietly having a nice season over there in Oakland.

11 catches
226 yds.
20.5 ave.
66 long
1 TD

I like Jordy and wished that he were still here under a cheaper, restructured deal. But the Packers made the correct decision. He had a great game against Miami, but in the two games before that he had 5 catches for 53 yards.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

I like Jordy and wished that he were still here under a cheaper, restructured deal. But the Packers made the correct decision. He had a great game against Miami, but in the two games before that he had 5 catches for 53 yards.

I'm not really lamenting the decision to part ways with Jordy, although I do still think he would have been worth keeping at what Oakland is paying him. I also think Jordy is proving that he is not as washed up as some here thought/think. Allison has been a pleasant surprise, so if the guess by Gute and the Packer coaches was that Geronimo would be a much cheaper option, they were right so far.

 

[HardRightEdge]

While we are on the subject of Jordy Despite being in a new system and on a 0-3 team, "old mYan" Jordy is quietly having a nice season over there in Oakland.

11 catchespas
226 yds.
20.5 avg
66 long
1 TD

That production is on 16 targets. Jared Cook's gaudy numbers could be cited as well, but no TDs. The salient numbers in Oakland's passing game are 2 TDs, 5 INTs.

Anyway, compare and contrast Nelson's production to Allison's:

18 targets
13 catches
209 yards
16.1 avg
2 TDs

Nelson: 2 years, $14.6 mil, $7.4 mil 2018 cap number

Allison: $630,000 2018 cap number, restricted FA in 2019.

Based on these early raw numbers, if we're going that way, moving on from Nelson and promoting Allison was absolutely the right move, for now and the future. We'll see where things eventually shake out at year end. If Allison continues on this trajectory, this is an example of what I mean when I say winning is highly dependent on stacking draft classes where you have a critical mass of production under cheap rookie deals.

Further, had Nelson been signed to a contract similar to that Oakland deal you can be pretty sure Graham is not signed especially with Rodgers contract up in the air at that time.

The more interesting "what if" in the offseason is how things would have shaken out if the Bears had not matched the Packers tender on Kyle Fuller with his $6.5 mil 2018 cap number, jumping to $13.5 mil in 2019. A current player with big ticket cap savings would have been released, whether that would have been Cobb or Matthews or Bulaga, and the draft would have looked quite different with either Alexander or Jackson (probably Jackson) swapped out, likely for a top pick replacement for that big ticket player that was released. We'll never know for sure how that would have shaken out exactly, but it would have been quite different.